TA Passed.

[V1Vr]

Easy to make comments like that from the outside. And if by eating young you mean taking on GGN pilots and giving every single one of them an immediate significant raise? Then ok.

If you mean future pilots, well... Now they have a continuing revolving door at Jazz which will keep movement going for upgrades and a good opportunity to go to AC if they want... So you don't know what the @#$! you're talking about.

Want to make mainline rates? Work at mainline.

[av8ts]

I'd say the people that didn't vote were probably the ones close to retirement that would not be affected, either way. From the AVCANADA discussions, I understood that there is zero to little impact on the very senior Jazz pilots. Am I correct?

Not quite true. Retired Jazz employees only keep their lifetime AC travel passes as long as Jazz has a CPA with AC. This ensures passes till at least 2035

Not true, so long as the day you retire the CPA is still current, you are set for life.. ie retire Feb 1 2019 and the CPA expires Feb 2 2019, you are good to go my friend. Thats all based on the years of service formula to be eligible in the first place of course. Also for the more senior folk, DB pension is secure until at least 2035 now.

I was sure that’s what I heard at the YUL roadshow.

[munzil]

Easy to make comments like that from the outside. And if by eating young you mean taking on GGN pilots and giving every single one of them an immediate significant raise? Then ok.

If you mean future pilots, well... Now they have a continuing revolving door at Jazz which will keep movement going for upgrades and a good opportunity to go to AC if they want... So you don't know what the @#$! you're talking about.

Want to make mainline rates? Work at mainline.

Isn't it easy to justify you are the good one? Everyone else is bad and you are the good ones. I work at neither of these two companies, but I can tell you giving in to a 17 year contract benefits no one in the industry at large but yourselves.

Once again the allure of working at AC has let Jazz pilots sell their souls.

Whatever works for you, nothing but a training organization for AC now.

[V1Vr]

Easy to make comments like that from the outside. And if by eating young you mean taking on GGN pilots and giving every single one of them an immediate significant raise? Then ok.

If you mean future pilots, well... Now they have a continuing revolving door at Jazz which will keep movement going for upgrades and a good opportunity to go to AC if they want... So you don't know what the @#$! you're talking about.

Want to make mainline rates? Work at mainline.

Isn't it easy to justify you are the good one? Everyone else is bad and you are the good ones. I work at neither of these two companies, but I can tell you giving in to a 17 year contract benefits no one in the industry at large but yourselves.

Once again the allure of working at AC has let Jazz pilots sell their souls.

Whatever works for you, nothing but a training organization for AC now.

For me is was there allure of having a job. And getting a big raise in two ish years that will see me making almost 10% more every year from now until I reach top scale Captain (17 years) over what my pay table was on the post 2015 contract. Not to mention fleet updating.. getting some Sr ppl to me out the door at let me move up the list.

It's not black and white, and no offense it sounds like you don't work here. There majority of the pilots HERE you two weeks and multiple road shows to understand the big picture I don't expect you to get it.

[munzil]

Easy to make comments like that from the outside. And if by eating young you mean taking on GGN pilots and giving every single one of them an immediate significant raise? Then ok.

If you mean future pilots, well... Now they have a continuing revolving door at Jazz which will keep movement going for upgrades and a good opportunity to go to AC if they want... So you don't know what the @#$! you're talking about.

Want to make mainline rates? Work at mainline.

Isn't it easy to justify you are the good one? Everyone else is bad and you are the good ones. I work at neither of these two companies, but I can tell you giving in to a 17 year contract benefits no one in the industry at large but yourselves.

Once again the allure of working at AC has let Jazz pilots sell their souls.

Whatever works for you, nothing but a training organization for AC now.

For me is was there allure of having a job. And getting a big raise in two ish years that will see me making almost 10% more every year from now until I reach top scale Captain (17 years) over what my pay table was on the post 2015 contract. Not to mention fleet updating.. getting some Sr ppl to me out the door at let me move up the list.

It's not black and white, and no offense it sounds like you don't work here. There majority of the pilots HERE you two weeks and multiple road shows to understand the big picture I don't expect you to get it.

You're right I don't work there. Well past that time in my career. I'm open to education how this deal helps the industry as a whole that benefits other and new pilots over just benefiting current Jazz pilots by setting new positive standards in the industry.

[Outlaw58]

Easy to make comments like that from the outside. And if by eating young you mean taking on GGN pilots and giving every single one of them an immediate significant raise? Then ok.

If you mean future pilots, well... Now they have a continuing revolving door at Jazz which will keep movement going for upgrades and a good opportunity to go to AC if they want... So you don't know what the @#$! you're talking about.

Want to make mainline rates? Work at mainline.

Isn't it easy to justify you are the good one? Everyone else is bad and you are the good ones. I work at neither of these two companies, but I can tell you giving in to a 17 year contract benefits no one in the industry at large but yourselves.

Once again the allure of working at AC has let Jazz pilots sell their souls.

Whatever works for you, nothing but a training organization for AC now.

You said yourself you work at neither of these places which means you didn't/don't have access to our CA, the wording of our MOS, the benefit of attending a roadshow explaining to you the process that went behind negotiations, the opportunity to ask questions to the MEC and negotiating committee, you also didn't have access to any opponents of these deal who are actually informed and not just yelling "toss it" cause everyone around them say so. You didn't have access to private discussions amongst JAZZ peers providing much balanced perspective on both the yes and no position.

In other words, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

I however did have access to these resources. I consumed everything I could get my hands and eyes on. Pondered the arguments, the authors and their motives (known, perceived or otherwise). Based on that info, I projected to the best of my ability the best and worst case scenarios for both possible outcome of the vote and formulated my own vote accordingly.

Consequently, I firmly believe that the ratification of this MOS was the best possible outcome not only for the Jazz pilots but also believe it or not for the industry in general. I am proud to have had a positive say in welcoming fellow Georgian pilots on DOH sending a loud and clear message that pilots have taken the first significant step toward unity and solidarity. Rest assured that there are other items, like the FO starting salary, on the to do list and they will be addressed when the opportunity presents itself because it will.

You (and anyone else) can keep repeating what you read around like good parrots, to which I have nothing further to add. Or you can inform yourself and join an attack free and constructive dialog to which I would gladly participate. I just needed to get that off my chest.

58

ps: Didn't mean to double wham your point V1Vr, you just posted while I was drafting my reply.

pps:

I'm open to education how this deal helps the industry as a whole that benefits other and new pilots over just benefiting current Jazz pilots by setting new positive standards in the industry.

Saying that you are open to educate yourself before expressing your admittedly uninformed opinion might have saved me (and everyone on these posts) this long rambling above. But you are not alone and as I like to say: "A bon entendeur, Salut!"

[munzil]

Easy to make comments like that from the outside. And if by eating young you mean taking on GGN pilots and giving every single one of them an immediate significant raise? Then ok.

If you mean future pilots, well... Now they have a continuing revolving door at Jazz which will keep movement going for upgrades and a good opportunity to go to AC if they want... So you don't know what the @#$! you're talking about.

Want to make mainline rates? Work at mainline.

Isn't it easy to justify you are the good one? Everyone else is bad and you are the good ones. I work at neither of these two companies, but I can tell you giving in to a 17 year contract benefits no one in the industry at large but yourselves.

Once again the allure of working at AC has let Jazz pilots sell their souls.

Whatever works for you, nothing but a training organization for AC now.

You said yourself you work at neither of these places which means you didn't/don't have access to our CA, the wording of our MOS, the benefit of attending a roadshow explaining to you the process that went behind negotiations, the opportunity to ask questions to the MEC and negotiating committee, you also didn't have access to any opponents of these deal who are actually informed and not just yelling "toss it" cause everyone around them say so. You didn't have access to private discussions amongst JAZZ peers providing much balanced perspective on both the yes and no position.

In other words, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

I however did have access to these resources. I consumed everything I could get my hands and eyes on. Pondered the arguments, the authors and their motives (known, perceived or otherwise). Based on that info, I projected to the best of my ability the best and worst case scenarios for both possible outcome of the vote and formulated my own vote accordingly.

Consequently, I firmly believe that the ratification of this MOS was the best possible outcome not only for the Jazz pilots but also believe it or not for the industry in general. I am proud to have had a positive say in welcoming fellow Georgian pilots on DOH sending a loud and clear message that pilots have taken the first significant step toward unity and solidarity. Rest assured that there are other items, like the FO starting salary, on the to do list and they will be addressed when the opportunity presents itself because it will.

You (and anyone else) can keep repeating what you read around like good parrots, to which I have nothing further to add. Or you can inform yourself and join an attack free and constructive dialog to which I would gladly participate. I just needed to get that off my chest.

58

That was a nice long post. Glad you got it off your chest. As I mentioned, I'm open to an education. Please feel free to educate us and the future pilots on how this has set new positive standards in place that will benefit the industry as a whole instead of just Jazz pilots.

You're right I have had not insider information.

[Outlaw58]

That was a nice long post. Glad you got it off your chest. As I mentioned, I'm open to an education. Please feel free to educate us and the future pilots on how this has set new positive standards in place that will benefit the industry as a whole instead of just Jazz pilots.

You're right I have had not insider information.

Ahhhh no.

I don't have the pretention to educate anyone. I gave you one example above of a positive first step (DOH) and will leave it at that. If you want education, do like me go to the sources and not 2nd hand info.

Once you do though, I will gladly debate with you on your findings an should you provide me with a perspective I did not contemplate, I can assure you I will be more than happy to express my gratitude for further enhancing my understanding of the issue.

To be clear, nay-sayers are going to have to do much much better than "duh,,,,you're screwing the next generation" to make me re-consider my position and engage me in a debate.

58

[munzil]

That was a nice long post. Glad you got it off your chest. As I mentioned, I'm open to an education. Please feel free to educate us and the future pilots on how this has set new positive standards in place that will benefit the industry as a whole instead of just Jazz pilots.

You're right I have had not insider information.

Ahhhh no.

I don't have the pretention to educate anyone. I gave you one example above of a positive first step (DOH) and will leave it at that. If you want education, do like me go to the sources and not 2nd hand info.

Once you do though, I will gladly debate with you on your findings an should you provide me with a perspective I did not contemplate, I can assure you I will be more than happy to express my gratitude for further enhancing my understanding of the issue.

To be clear, nay-sayers are going to have to do much much better than "duh,,,,you're screwing the next generation" to make me re-consider my position and engage me in a debate.

58

You're assuming I have the interest to dig deeper. I'll rely on 35 years in aviation and taking things at face value. Seen it before, will see it again. Jazz appears to have taken the bait entirely in self interest. No interest in edgucamating me in why not then we'll just leave it at that

[V1Vr]

That was a nice long post. Glad you got it off your chest. As I mentioned, I'm open to an education. Please feel free to educate us and the future pilots on how this has set new positive standards in place that will benefit the industry as a whole instead of just Jazz pilots.

You're right I have had not insider information.

Ahhhh no.

I don't have the pretention to educate anyone. I gave you one example above of a positive first step (DOH) and will leave it at that. If you want education, do like me go to the sources and not 2nd hand info.

Once you do though, I will gladly debate with you on your findings an should you provide me with a perspective I did not contemplate, I can assure you I will be more than happy to express my gratitude for further enhancing my understanding of the issue.

To be clear, nay-sayers are going to have to do much much better than "duh,,,,you're screwing the next generation" to make me re-consider my position and engage me in a debate.

58

Not worth arguing with internet strangers. Everyone has always talked shit about Jazz on this site even when we're the best paying regional with the best work rules. Now it's even better, and they still bitch. No use trying to change their minds.

[munzil]

That was a nice long post. Glad you got it off your chest. As I mentioned, I'm open to an education. Please feel free to educate us and the future pilots on how this has set new positive standards in place that will benefit the industry as a whole instead of just Jazz pilots.

You're right I have had not insider information.

Ahhhh no.

I don't have the pretention to educate anyone. I gave you one example above of a positive first step (DOH) and will leave it at that. If you want education, do like me go to the sources and not 2nd hand info.

Once you do though, I will gladly debate with you on your findings an should you provide me with a perspective I did not contemplate, I can assure you I will be more than happy to express my gratitude for further enhancing my understanding of the issue.

To be clear, nay-sayers are going to have to do much much better than "duh,,,,you're screwing the next generation" to make me re-consider my position and engage me in a debate.

58

Not worth arguing with internet strangers. Everyone has always talked shit about Jazz on this site even when we're the best paying regional with the best work rules. Now it's even better, and they still bitch. No use trying to change their minds.

Oh the victim complex. Funnily enough all I have is seen somewhat entitled Jazz pontificating about how others have degraded their positions by looking out for themselves.

Regional,. You said it. Nothing more nothing less

[V1Vr]

Ahhhh no.

I don't have the pretention to educate anyone. I gave you one example above of a positive first step (DOH) and will leave it at that. If you want education, do like me go to the sources and not 2nd hand info.

Once you do though, I will gladly debate with you on your findings an should you provide me with a perspective I did not contemplate, I can assure you I will be more than happy to express my gratitude for further enhancing my understanding of the issue.

To be clear, nay-sayers are going to have to do much much better than "duh,,,,you're screwing the next generation" to make me re-consider my position and engage me in a debate.

58

Not worth arguing with internet strangers. Everyone has always talked shit about Jazz on this site even when we're the best paying regional with the best work rules. Now it's even better, and they still bitch. No use trying to change their minds.

Oh the victim complex. Funnily enough all I have is seen somewhat entitled Jazz pontificating about how others have degraded their positions by looking out for themselves.

Regional,. You said it. Nothing more nothing less

Never claimed to be anything more than a regional.

Want to make mainline rates, work at mainline.

I on the other hand will continue to make my *good* money, coupled with a great lifestyle. I don't need to die at 67.

Thanks.

[Dark Helmet]

Isn't it easy to justify you are the good one? Everyone else is bad and you are the good ones. I work at neither of these two companies, but I can tell you giving in to a 17 year contract benefits no one in the industry at large but yourselves.

Once again the allure of working at AC has let Jazz pilots sell their souls.

Whatever works for you, nothing but a training organization for AC now.

You said yourself you work at neither of these places which means you didn't/don't have access to our CA, the wording of our MOS, the benefit of attending a roadshow explaining to you the process that went behind negotiations, the opportunity to ask questions to the MEC and negotiating committee, you also didn't have access to any opponents of these deal who are actually informed and not just yelling "toss it" cause everyone around them say so. You didn't have access to private discussions amongst JAZZ peers providing much balanced perspective on both the yes and no position.

In other words, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

I however did have access to these resources. I consumed everything I could get my hands and eyes on. Pondered the arguments, the authors and their motives (known, perceived or otherwise). Based on that info, I projected to the best of my ability the best and worst case scenarios for both possible outcome of the vote and formulated my own vote accordingly.

Consequently, I firmly believe that the ratification of this MOS was the best possible outcome not only for the Jazz pilots but also believe it or not for the industry in general. I am proud to have had a positive say in welcoming fellow Georgian pilots on DOH sending a loud and clear message that pilots have taken the first significant step toward unity and solidarity. Rest assured that there are other items, like the FO starting salary, on the to do list and they will be addressed when the opportunity presents itself because it will.

You (and anyone else) can keep repeating what you read around like good parrots, to which I have nothing further to add. Or you can inform yourself and join an attack free and constructive dialog to which I would gladly participate. I just needed to get that off my chest.

58

That was a nice long post. Glad you got it off your chest. As I mentioned, I'm open to an education. Please feel free to educate us and the future pilots on how this has set new positive standards in place that will benefit the industry as a whole instead of just Jazz pilots.

You're right I have had not insider information.

I am not saying I am a fan of this deal, nor will deal have any effect on my job and career.

Just on the surface without quoting insider info.

GGN has one of the worst WAWCON among Regional carriers in NA. Every one knows that. Every company (be SKY, Encore, jazz) will benchmark GGN conditions when it comes to negots. Well GGN is pretty much done as a AC CPA carrier after this deal so there is one positive. Also GGN pilots got protected which is another positive.

Going back 10 years ago:

A pilot a Jazz had a slim to none chance of getting hired at AC.
A pilot at jazz would be looking at minimum 10 years to a left seat.

Now:

A Jazz pilot will have a very very good chance of a job at AC.
Upgrades will probably happen at the year 2 mark on average.

The Jazz contract was better 10 years ago but not by much... I think it is still one of the best contracts for a regional carrier in NA.

Could the Jazz MEC have done better? You seem to think so. Perhaps you can educate us on how they could have done better. Please be realistic.

Also keep in mind when the "pilot shortage" hits. Companies will have to pony up whether they are in a closed CA or not.

[av8ts]

Mmmm. I wonder if the pilot who was fired from Jazz and went to GGN gets to now come back to Jazz

[daedalusx]

Mmmm. I wonder if the pilot who was fired from Jazz and went to GGN gets to now come back to Jazz

Wasn’t that the chap who locked out an FO out of the cockpit ? The same one that our union defended

[Inverted2]

Mmmm. I wonder if the pilot who was fired from Jazz and went to GGN gets to now come back to Jazz

Brutus?

[daedalusx]

Mmmm. I wonder if the pilot who was fired from Jazz and went to GGN gets to now come back to Jazz

Brutus?

Yea. The ‘pillow’ guy

[Inverted2]

Mmmm. I wonder if the pilot who was fired from Jazz and went to GGN gets to now come back to Jazz

Brutus?

Yea. The ‘pillow’ guy

[truedude]

Brutus?

Yea. The ‘pillow’ guy

Pretty sure he left GGN long time a go.

[V1Vr]

Yea. The ‘pillow’ guy

Pretty sure he left GGN long time a go.

He causing trouble over at the rising sun these days... From what I hear.