Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

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V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:27 am

rudder wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am
V1Vr wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:12 am
Anyone who needs pic time this summer should do that since we'll be overstaffed.
How will Jazz be overstaffed while sending 240+ pilots (0.6 x 400) to AC over the next 12 months plus adding 5 CRJ900’s prior to year end?
I guess.

We're also losing 15 -100s and a bunch of Qs. Who knows I guess we'll see after the bid is over.
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:46 am

My guess is that the fleet reductions (- 15 100’s/ - 6 300’s/ -8 400’s) will happen over time. If they are going to be replaced by Jazz or subcontracted to another vendor, it will require planning and a significant transitional period.

My prediction is understaffed for all of 2019 (including GGN transferred pilots) and training system running at 110% capacity.
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47north
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by 47north » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:57 am

There are currently 12 -100s operating I believe. Also 3 Qs are to leave in 2020, none this year.
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GhostRider6
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by GhostRider6 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:24 pm

C-GGGQ wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:54 am
Oh for sure most of the new hires are not college grads. I was just implying that it will be a growing trend for all regionals like Jazz. The long thread on the Jazz pilot pool proves lots of these guys have significant time.

It’s all good! This idea is all over the place. And I 100% agree .. bring on the 1500 705 rule. And I never saw that thread.

:)
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goleafsgo
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by goleafsgo » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:47 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:27 am
rudder wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am
V1Vr wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:12 am
Anyone who needs pic time this summer should do that since we'll be overstaffed.
How will Jazz be overstaffed while sending 240+ pilots (0.6 x 400) to AC over the next 12 months plus adding 5 CRJ900’s prior to year end?
I guess.

We're also losing 15 -100s and a bunch of Qs. Who knows I guess we'll see after the bid is over.
Isn't the 0 100's in 2019 just a minimum? We've been operating over the minimum and wouldn't be surprised if we still have some 100's by the end of the year
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V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:30 pm

goleafsgo wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:47 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:27 am
rudder wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am


How will Jazz be overstaffed while sending 240+ pilots (0.6 x 400) to AC over the next 12 months plus adding 5 CRJ900’s prior to year end?
I guess.

We're also losing 15 -100s and a bunch of Qs. Who knows I guess we'll see after the bid is over.
Isn't the 0 100's in 2019 just a minimum? We've been operating over the minimum and wouldn't be surprised if we still have some 100's by the end of the year
Yeah it's a min. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if most of them stick around for a while. They're paid off and cheap to operate.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Yycjetdriver » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 pm

$38,400 while living in YVR or YYZ. Hahahahaha
Could almost afford a parking spot downtown, not enough to get a car to live in though. Maybe a tent off Kijiji.

Heck how do captains even survive as $76,800? Better be single, no debt and living in a dump.
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V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:39 pm

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 pm
$38,400 while living in YVR or YYZ. Hahahahaha
Could almost afford a parking spot downtown, not enough to get a car to live in though. Maybe a tent off Kijiji.

Heck how do captains even survive as $76,800? Better be single, no debt and living in a dump.
I was able to do it. It sucked, bit I did it.

Was $12,000 more than I made up north. But yes it did all go into rent.

Then again I didn't get over $10k of per diems up north.

It's all relative.
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mixturerich
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by mixturerich » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:19 pm

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 pm
$38,400 while living in YVR or YYZ. Hahahahaha
Could almost afford a parking spot downtown, not enough to get a car to live in though. Maybe a tent off Kijiji.

Heck how do captains even survive as $76,800? Better be single, no debt and living in a dump.
Well the average family household income is like $70k, I wonder how they’re doing it?
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by bearitus » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:44 am

As a Jazz FO and sole income earner for a family of three in YYZ, I run a side business which supplements my income as well as driving uber part time. If I need any extra money, I borrow it from my parents or line of credit.
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:11 am

A lot of FOs in the north make 45-55 grand a year.
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:15 am

A block holder at Jazz will earn the hourly rate x 1000 for the year. A block holder will also make $1000-1600 per month in per diems (tax free). And 2-3 overtime days at 150% will increase monthly pay by 20%.

It is true that from a base rate of $40-45/hr that some will still end up with T4’s below $50k which is unacceptable for pilot employees domiciled in the 3 most expensive cities in Canada. Hopefully that will change.

But to the poster who lamented low Captain pay at Jazz - you took a snapshot of year 1 CA rates. I think that you will find lots of year 1 CA rates that are outliers. That is because most carriers do not have year 1 CA. SWG has year 1 CA pay of $105. Is that representative of CA pay at SWG? With top rates approaching $200/hr and double time overtime premiums - not even close.

Every union carrier in Canada has CA rates that increase exponentially over time. Most CA will do the majority of their left seat time at top rate. That has many SWG CA making $250k+ per year.

And at Jazz, most top scale CA are making T4’s of $150-175k per year. Some are $200k+. Even year 1/2/3/4 CA with a bit of overtime will comfortably make $100k+/yr. Not bad for flying a fleet of puddle jumpers.

If a pilot either chooses or simply ends up doing 15+ years at Jazz, with an upgrade within 3 years of service they will do just fine financially. If they are just making a brief stop on their career journey, then their aggregate Jazz earnings will be commensurate with a non-tenured pilot.

Considering the pay package at the Flair and Swoops of the world operating B737’s at 189 seats, Jazz is far from the anchor on pilot pay in Canada considering a fleet of sub-80 seat aircraft. However, there is still room for improvement in the FO starting pay.
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Inverted2 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:31 am

Well said.
Yes the first couple years pay at Jazz is bad. I was on it too. I took 6 years till I could hold a left seat. Now fast forward to the current situation and you can easily make 100k/year after 2-3 years here. Pick up 2 days of overtime a month and it makes a huge difference on your pay in the left seat.

I get a laugh when I fly with the 250hr wonder 22 year olds who complain about the pay. Man, times have changed.
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:23 am

FYI - a pilot hired by Jazz in 2019 who upgrades in 2020 will have a base pay of $175,000 in 2035. That is flying a 76-78 seat aircraft (or whatever aircraft the ACPA scope will permit after 2025).

Some will stay but most hired from 2018 forward will leave to fly the big iron at AC. Those departures benefit AC by filling seats with well trained pilots and benefit Jazz by keeping average tenure either stable or declining and create early upgrade opportunities for qualified candidates.

The Jazz pilots have been singularly successful in preserving career pay rates for pilots that choose to remain at Jazz. And that is despite mergers, evolution to a CPA carrier, and a trip through CCAA. The recent collective agreement has enshrined job security to 2035.

And now the Jazz pilots have taken care of their peers at GGN respecting the DOH criteria. The Jazz pilots have nothing to be embarrassed about.
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by av8ts » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:30 am

rudder wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:15 am


And at Jazz, most top scale CA are making T4’s of $150-175k per year. Some are $200k+. Even year 1/2/3/4 CA with a bit of overtime will comfortably make $100k+/yr. Not bad for flying a fleet of puddle jumpers.

I’m a top scale Captain at Jazz. With no o/t my T4 last year was 130k. Any Captain making 150-170k is working WAAAAY more than I want to work. I have a life away from work
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by speedah » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:02 am

Picking up 1 day of OT a month goes a long way for you guys!

129.98 X 1.5 (OT) X 4.5 (min day) = 877.16
1 a month will get you a greasy $10500 extra a year!

Now imagine if you did 2, or not min credits, etc etc.

Popping in for an extra day of work a month is not the worst, and you cant really complain given the average pilot works 16-17 days a month!
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Yycjetdriver » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:08 am

speedah wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:02 am
Picking up 1 day of OT a month goes a long way for you guys!

129.98 X 1.5 (OT) X 4.5 (min day) = 877.16
1 a month will get you a greasy $10500 extra a year!

No imagine if you did 2, or not min credits, etc etc.

Popping in for an extra day of work a month is not hard, and you definitely cannot complain given the average works 16-17 days a month.
Not accurate at all, you realize you are taxed on overtime income right? Also, that additional income can result in the rest of your normal income being taxed at a higher rate.

Imagine being a professional pilot and not having to work extra, 2-3 jobs, rely on lines of credit or burdening your parents to make ends meat let alone decent money. Oh well, maybe in 2036?......🤭
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:34 am

av8ts wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:30 am

I’m a top scale Captain at Jazz. With no o/t my T4 last year was 130k. Any Captain making 150-170k is working WAAAAY more than I want to work. I have a life away from work
$130 x 1000 = $130,000

ESOP 6% match @ 60% = $4680

Ensemble = $1200

So zero overtime/fly just published schedule equals $135,880. That represents the no effort T4 at Jazz for a top scale CA in 2018.

Add O/T @ $1000/day or Training pilot overrides and $150k is achievable with minimum effort.

There are lots of top scale CA at Jazz making well over $150k. Several over $200k. It is an individual choice to be a line trainer/checker or give up a couple of days off for overtime duty. Many senior CA start the month with just 10-13 work days scheduled (no vacation).

That is why quite a few remained at Jazz despite other opportunities. Control over schedule. Control over income. Individual choices.
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by skypirate88 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:05 am

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:08 am
speedah wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:02 am
Picking up 1 day of OT a month goes a long way for you guys!

129.98 X 1.5 (OT) X 4.5 (min day) = 877.16
1 a month will get you a greasy $10500 extra a year!

No imagine if you did 2, or not min credits, etc etc.

Popping in for an extra day of work a month is not hard, and you definitely cannot complain given the average works 16-17 days a month.
Not accurate at all, you realize you are taxed on overtime income right? Also, that additional income can result in the rest of your normal income being taxed at a higher rate.

Imagine being a professional pilot and not having to work extra, 2-3 jobs, rely on lines of credit or burdening your parents to make ends meat let alone decent money. Oh well, maybe in 2036?......🤭
That's not how income tax works. Only the money over the earning threshold is taxed at that higher rate. Anything earned under is taxed at the lower rate.
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:38 am

skypirate88 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:05 am

That's not how income tax works. Only the money over the earning threshold is taxed at that higher rate. Anything earned under is taxed at the lower rate.
Highest tax bracket was income above $202,800 NET Income (not GROSS Income) for 2017. You get to deduct registered pension plan contributions, RRSP contributions, and union dues paid to reduce Gross to Net. Other brackets were $142,353 and $91,831. Brackets are indexed so 2018 and 2019 nominally higher (approx 1.4% per annum compounded).

Assuming a 6% pension contribution and 1.9% union dues deduction, you would need gross income at Jazz over approximately $223,000 to be exposed in the highest tax bracket. It has happened.....
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:56 am

skypirate88 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:05 am
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:08 am
speedah wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:02 am
Picking up 1 day of OT a month goes a long way for you guys!

129.98 X 1.5 (OT) X 4.5 (min day) = 877.16
1 a month will get you a greasy $10500 extra a year!

No imagine if you did 2, or not min credits, etc etc.

Popping in for an extra day of work a month is not hard, and you definitely cannot complain given the average works 16-17 days a month.
Not accurate at all, you realize you are taxed on overtime income right? Also, that additional income can result in the rest of your normal income being taxed at a higher rate.

Imagine being a professional pilot and not having to work extra, 2-3 jobs, rely on lines of credit or burdening your parents to make ends meat let alone decent money. Oh well, maybe in 2036?......🤭
That's not how income tax works. Only the money over the earning threshold is taxed at that higher rate. Anything earned under is taxed at the lower rate.
It still blows my mind that people don't understand how tax works.
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speedah
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by speedah » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:15 am

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:08 am
speedah wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:02 am
Picking up 1 day of OT a month goes a long way for you guys!

129.98 X 1.5 (OT) X 4.5 (min day) = 877.16
1 a month will get you a greasy $10500 extra a year!

No imagine if you did 2, or not min credits, etc etc.

Popping in for an extra day of work a month is not hard, and you definitely cannot complain given the average works 16-17 days a month.
Not accurate at all, you realize you are taxed on overtime income right? Also, that additional income can result in the rest of your normal income being taxed at a higher rate.

Imagine being a professional pilot and not having to work extra, 2-3 jobs, rely on lines of credit or burdening your parents to make ends meat let alone decent money. Oh well, maybe in 2036?......🤭
The point I am trying to make is that you can easily bump up your T4 by working a day extra a month

And learn how tax brackets work! It is embarrassing how this is such a widely misunderstood concept!

https://youtu.be/VJhsjUPDulw
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ikarus
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by ikarus » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:23 pm

You guys can spin these pay rates all day long, how ever you want guys....but bottom line in 2019 entry level pay is embarrassing both for Jazz or AC....but obviously 70% (Jazz) said they are happy to go with it, so it's time to move on.

I will say though that Jazz contract is superior to many other airlines in Canada. You have to work there to appreciate it.
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:34 pm

ikarus wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:23 pm
...but bottom line in 2019 entry level pay is embarrassing both for Jazz or AC....
On that point I believe that you will have 100% agreement.
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by hithere » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:12 pm

“It still blows my mind that people don't understand how tax works.“

It is entirely possible that yycjetdriver knows exactly how tax works, however like the YYC chairman he prefers to spew bullish!t to further his own smear campaign of the JAZ MEC. Hell its even possible that yycjetdriver IS the Chairman with a misleading handle. The man is toxic, plain and simple,
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