Bid 2019

[Outlaw58]

Corrected number - 203 pilots from GGN signed up for Jazz and will be participating in Bid 2019-01.

If there are any GGN pilots reading this - have you been provided with guidance for equipment bidding from Jazz or ALPA? Bidding deadline is February 23rd.

Texted with a friend of mine who is coming over from GGN and he said he has received instruction and his bid is in.

I have not probed further so not sot sure what guidance they were given, nor what mode of bidding they were provided.

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[Babar350]

So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?

[KenoraPilot]

So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?

203 are coming to Jazz out of a possible 226.

[Splash]

So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?

203 are coming to Jazz out of a possible 226.

That would be an uptake of 90%. If a small number are going directly to AC, that leaves GGN with very few pilots.

[Yieldermatik]

So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?

203 are coming to Jazz out of a possible 226.

That would be an uptake of 90%. If a small number are going directly to AC, that leaves GGN with very few pilots.

And pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.

[link821]

203 are coming to Jazz out of a possible 226.

That would be an uptake of 90%. If a small number are going directly to AC, that leaves GGN with very few pilots.

And pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.

/ people trying to even get a call back or in to the pool.

[Babar350]

And pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.

Well, it depends where you seat in the pool... However, nobody knows how they choose from the pool the candidates they are putting into GS... Quit contradicting huh?

So from we can gather here and there, there will be around 170 spots for OTS. Remove 16 OTS from January GS and 15 from February, it leaves us with 140 spots to fill in from March to December, which leads us to 14 OTS averaged until the end of the year...

Now the big question is: how do they choose who is going to be in the GS? Are we sorted by email date or by experience?

[Hilroy]

I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz.

Those guys would have been available to AC from GGN... Instead of having 70% of flow, Jazz will now have 90%.

There is no downsizing in express flights, so the pool of express pilots stays the same. They are now packed into one company instead of two.

[DH8Pilot]

It's hard to predict how this will all play out with the limited information we have now. We don't know how quickly the Q's will leave YYZ, nor how quickly the RJ's will be transferred back to Jazz. Furthermore, we don't know the rate at which we'll intake those 203 GGN pilots. If I were to hazard a guess at this point, I'd say OTS hiring will be somewhat limited until just before the summer, if not later.

Hilroy makes a good point. While the inclusion of the GGN pilots may have the immediate effect of lengthening the upgrade time and time to AC by 6-12 months for new hires, the guaranteed flow of 60% at a 90% hiring rate might mitigate that dramatically compared to what might've otherwise been the case. As stated before though, we won't know the extent of this until we see how it all plays out. Anything more now is simply an educated guess.

It's also worth noting that any GGN pilot coming already holds a seniority number above the most junior Jazz pilot on property. Therefore, any further OTS hiring would be placed at the bottom of the list behind all GGN pilots either way. What I mean by this is that for the very next OTS hire, it won't matter in terms of seniority whether they're hired tomorrow or in 6 months, as they'll still hold the same seniority.

In regards to your question of whether Jazz is still a good bet, I'd say it's now more so than ever. AC will still be hiring like crazy for the next two years, then pretty consistently after that. With 60% flow at a 90% hiring rate, movement will continue. Jazz is now centre in AC's long-term regional plans, so whether you want to stay here or leave for AC, both are extremely good options.

[47north]

It's hard to predict how this will all play out with the limited information we have now. We don't know how quickly the Q's will leave YYZ, nor how quickly the RJ's will be transferred back to Jazz. Furthermore, we don't know the rate at which we'll intake those 203 GGN pilots. If I were to hazard a guess at this point, I'd say OTS hiring will be somewhat limited until just before the summer, if not later.

Hilroy makes a good point. While the inclusion of the GGN pilots may have the immediate effect of lengthening the upgrade time and time to AC by 6-12 months for new hires, the guaranteed flow of 60% at a 90% hiring rate might mitigate that dramatically compared to what might've otherwise been the case. As stated before though, we won't know the extent of this until we see how it all plays out. Anything more now is simply an educated guess.

It's also worth noting that any GGN pilot coming already holds a seniority number above the most junior Jazz pilot on property. Therefore, any further OTS hiring would be placed at the bottom of the list behind all GGN pilots either way. What I mean by this is that for the very next OTS hire, it won't matter in terms of seniority whether they're hired tomorrow or in 6 months, as they'll still hold the same seniority.

In regards to your question of whether Jazz is still a good bet, I'd say it's now more so than ever. AC will still be hiring like crazy for the next two years, then pretty consistently after that. With 60% flow at a 90% hiring rate, movement will continue. Jazz is now centre in AC's long-term regional plans, so whether you want to stay here or leave for AC, both are extremely good options.

I was told by a pretty reliable source that the Ggn CRJs will not start to come over until the summer. The Q400s won’t go back until the end of 2020. The Dash 8-100s are TBD as AC is looking to keeping them a bit longer than the end of 2019.

The training department is ramping up for lots of training. If I had to guess I would say OTS will continue until the Ggn Pilots really start coming over and then will pause a bit to intake those pilots until OTS starts up again.

I would guess that a good number of the Ggn Pilots won’t be able to hold their current position on the CRJ, at least captains in YYZ. This may prompt more of them to flow to AC.

[47north]

Bid is out. Some pretty junior Captains in there. Looks like upgrades under 12 months now.

[Babar350]

Bid is out. Some pretty junior Captains in there. Looks like upgrades under 12 months now.

On every bases or a specific one and specific equipment?

[DH8Pilot]

Absolutely insane bid! The most junior captain was hired January 2019 (DH8 YUL).

For those waiting in the pool/for a call back, I count 150+ vacancies post-GGN integration. You'll all be flying with us soon!

[Babar350]

Wow!
I wasn't far from the numbers!
Guess we'll be in before September!

[Outlaw58]

Just saw the bid! Upgrade 4 months earlier than I expected....no complaints here!!!

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[PostmasterGeneral]

I think it’s safe to say with those vacancies that every new hire for the next year or so will be on the Q in YVR!

[47north]

Bid is out. Some pretty junior Captains in there. Looks like upgrades under 12 months now.

On every bases or a specific one and specific equipment?

YUL Dash and Q400. YYZ Dash 8 and YVR Q400 went junior too.

[47north]

Question for any Ggn pilots. There seems to be a fair number of pilots from Ggn on the combined seniority list when the bid was posted that don't appear on the published results.

Did some pilots pull their names and elect to stay at Ggn or flow directly to AC?

[KenoraPilot]

150 vacancies on this bid, I expect they will be running 20pilots per GS until Dec 2019. There might even be the possibility of two GS a month come summer. This again will all be predicated on the hiring AC does over the summer. If AC takes a break over the summer like they tend to, I'd expect only 1 GS a month. OTS hiring will remain high for every GS IMO. YVR Q400 has 70+ vacancies on its FO roster. Jan 2019 Captains means anyone with ATPL basically could hold a Captain position at Jazz in YUL or YYZ.

I expect the 2019-02 (Aug bid) to be a course correction after they see what the AC hiring cycle is like. I also noticed that the bid did not include the 8 new CA positions that were supposed to be added to YYC DH8 in Oct/Nov. So shows that they are really taking a look now at who has an application in at AC and who does not (ie lifers at Jazz like myself). So hopefully with the next few bids things will finally be shaken out and we can see some stability. Thankfully on this bid there were not many people who were "forcibly" reduced and had to move bases (YVR DH8 reduction but it seems everyone was able to move to the Q and RJ and there were still left over spots for new Captains to join the lists)

[Rowdy]

i noted 116 YVR DH4 captains awarded. The minimum is 84 and I believe they're holding a baseline of 100. Sounds like they expect quite a bit of attrition.

Supposed another 330 to go to AC this year..

I also noticed that they seem to have quite a few folk who have set their retirement dates training as well. I'm guessing the next bid (if they run one) will also see a lot of new captains.