Esop reduction..

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hithere
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by hithere »

Maybe if you had been on the negots committee through the back and forth of 2018 you might be more entitled to the disparaging remarks you are making. The AC spot for Jazz pilots is never guaranteed- I was given a PFO during the PML 1.0 process which was supposed to be a “sure thing”. The max 10% PFO rate that was negotiated in the last MOS is far better than the cherry picking selection process of PML 2.0 so that is a critical piece for post 2015 Jazz pilots. And there never was any cute chick offered only the fat one or go home with your d!ck in your hand. Calin doesn’t offer cute chicks to the pilots- have a look at the AC pilots forum on this very website- you will find the exact same vocal minority as yourself spewing vitriol at the last time they negotiated.
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Outlaw58
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Outlaw58 »

daedalusx wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:18 pm
Malfunction wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:09 pm
daedalusx wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:52 pm Serves you right. You sold off the next generation of pilots purely in the hope of getting an AC seat that would have gotten anyways. Enjoys those C4 passes and having AC rampies bump you to the back of the slave ship when you’re deadheading.
Why are you angry with the pilots. Its management who are pulling all the strings and have been cutting wages and passes
Because it was the one time in so so many years that us as a pilot group had a chance to turns things around and set a positive trend and 72% of my peers took the cowardly way around. You don’t get what you’re worth, you get what you negotiate. There was a real threat in 2015 and I don’t blame the Jazz guys from signing that agreement as they had absolutely no leverage. This time it was different, we were bailing out Georgian in a middle of a pilot shortage and we sold out an entire generation of future pilots. I’m not angry at the pilots, just extremely disappointed. And BTW, bailing Georgian should have come at the cost of us getting real POS J class DH and C2s but our negotiation committee settled for the lone fat chick because they didn’t have the courage to go ask out the cute one.
Little bird told me there is going to be at least 1 vacancy on the negotiating committee....

Man-up and volunteer,.... you got my vote.

58
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Rowdy
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Rowdy »

Outlaw58 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:25 pm
Little bird told me there is going to be at least 1 vacancy on the negotiating committee....

Man-up and volunteer,.... you got my vote.

58
We don't vote on the negotiating committee sadly...

I'm pretty sure two of them are off to AC now though and I wish them all the best.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Yycjetdriver »

Rowdy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:32 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:25 pm
Little bird told me there is going to be at least 1 vacancy on the negotiating committee....

Man-up and volunteer,.... you got my vote.

58
We don't vote on the negotiating committee sadly...

I'm pretty sure two of them are off to AC now though and I wish them all the best.
Allowing representatives to negotiate a record 17 year contract while knowing full well they only had to endure months of set contract. This blows my mind.
Not to mention the fact it’s fair to assume their number 1 priority during the negotiations would have nothing to do with the well being of their fellow aviators, but would be to rock zero boats in order to maintain their hances if not having to work under the very shit contract they are negotiating.
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47north
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by 47north »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:42 am
Rowdy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:32 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:25 pm
Little bird told me there is going to be at least 1 vacancy on the negotiating committee....

Man-up and volunteer,.... you got my vote.

58
We don't vote on the negotiating committee sadly...

I'm pretty sure two of them are off to AC now though and I wish them all the best.
Allowing representatives to negotiate a record 17 year contract while knowing full well they only had to endure months of set contract. This blows my mind.
Not to mention the fact it’s fair to assume their number 1 priority during the negotiations would have nothing to do with the well being of their fellow aviators, but would be to rock zero boats in order to maintain their hances if not having to work under the very shit contract they are negotiating.
I thought you left Jazz. You seems rather obsessed with Jazz for someone that doesn't have a vested interest here.
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mbav8r
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by mbav8r »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:42 am
Rowdy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:32 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:25 pm
Little bird told me there is going to be at least 1 vacancy on the negotiating committee....

Man-up and volunteer,.... you got my vote.

58
We don't vote on the negotiating committee sadly...

I'm pretty sure two of them are off to AC now though and I wish them all the best.
Allowing representatives to negotiate a record 17 year contract while knowing full well they only had to endure months of set contract. This blows my mind.
Not to mention the fact it’s fair to assume their number 1 priority during the negotiations would have nothing to do with the well being of their fellow aviators, but would be to rock zero boats in order to maintain their hances if not having to work under the very shit contract they are negotiating.
There were also members involved who will be here for most if not all the duration of this contract, who also gained nothing because they were top pay already, geez are there any neutral members at all who could’ve done better. The negotiations were based on a survey of all the pilots and it seems all demographics were represented. You take care of your house, we’ll take care of ours.
ACPA did more damage to our ability to negotiate anything, more than any other factor, ever! Remember when Jazz was the only provider allowed to fly for AC under contract, then we weren’t.
All groups have done damage and will continue to do so, why? Because we will always look out for our own interest.
The one thing in this contract I am proud of, we gave date of hire to a group of pilots who were one of the biggest drivers of downward pressure to our wages, would ACPA do that? Never, not a chance in hell and everybody knows it!
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Yycjetdriver »

47north wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:59 am
Yycjetdriver wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:42 am
Rowdy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:32 am

We don't vote on the negotiating committee sadly...

I'm pretty sure two of them are off to AC now though and I wish them all the best.
Allowing representatives to negotiate a record 17 year contract while knowing full well they only had to endure months of set contract. This blows my mind.
Not to mention the fact it’s fair to assume their number 1 priority during the negotiations would have nothing to do with the well being of their fellow aviators, but would be to rock zero boats in order to maintain their hances if not having to work under the very shit contract they are negotiating.
I thought you left Jazz. You seems rather obsessed with Jazz for someone that doesn't have a vested interest here.
Of course I have a vested interest, every single Canadian pilots should have a vested interest.
When a company the size of Jazz, employing 1200+ pilots is able to table a terrible contract and somehow get it to pass for a record time span it hurts every single pilot in a country in some way or at some point.
Your comment shows how truly out of touch you are.
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47north
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by 47north »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:10 am
47north wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:59 am
Yycjetdriver wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:42 am

Allowing representatives to negotiate a record 17 year contract while knowing full well they only had to endure months of set contract. This blows my mind.
Not to mention the fact it’s fair to assume their number 1 priority during the negotiations would have nothing to do with the well being of their fellow aviators, but would be to rock zero boats in order to maintain their hances if not having to work under the very shit contract they are negotiating.
I thought you left Jazz. You seems rather obsessed with Jazz for someone that doesn't have a vested interest here.
Of course I have a vested interest, every single Canadian pilots should have a vested interest.
When a company the size of Jazz, employing 1200+ pilots is able to table a terrible contract and somehow get it to pass for a record time span it hurts every single pilot in a country in some way or at some point.
Your comment shows how truly out of touch you are.
Actually I am very much In touch and overall it’s a very good contract.

Perhaps the grass isn’t greener in your new pasture?
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hithere
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by hithere »

I don’t know how many bloody times this has to be explained, but here goes again:
YYCjetdriver I assume you work for a carrier that owns its
Flying? Like probably WestJet? Well in that case your Pilots would be well advised to not sign a long term contract - keep the terms as short as possible.
However for a carrier like Jazz, an independently owned CPA carrier which does not own its flying and is constantly at risk of losing flying to competing CPA carriers, it is actually advantageous to sign longer term contracts.
Our bargaining realities are different than yours! So go take care of your own affairs and we will take care of ours. And as far as having guys from the negotiations committee move on to AC, that is also a reality of being a CPA carrier with a flow to mainline. It is part of what attracts candidates to come here in the first place.
So once again kindly p!ss off and take care of your own house, we did no disservice to the industry; only bargained within the confines of the CPA world.
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47north
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by 47north »

hithere wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:12 pm I don’t know how many bloody times this has to be explained, but here goes again:
YYCjetdriver I assume you work for a carrier that owns its
Flying? Like probably WestJet? Well in that case your Pilots would be well advised to not sign a long term contract - keep the terms as short as possible.
However for a carrier like Jazz, an independently owned CPA carrier which does not own its flying and is constantly at risk of losing flying to competing CPA carriers, it is actually advantageous to sign longer term contracts.
Our bargaining realities are different than yours! So go take care of your own affairs and we will take care of ours. And as far as having guys from the negotiations committee move on to AC, that is also a reality of being a CPA carrier with a flow to mainline. It is part of what attracts candidates to come here in the first place.
So once again kindly p!ss off and take care of your own house, we did no disservice to the industry; only bargained within the confines of the CPA world.
+1
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Kosiw
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Kosiw »

From my understanding, the employees of another Chorus owned company have also been affected by this ESOP reduction. Ripple effect.
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mbav8r
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by mbav8r »

Kosiw wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:05 am From my understanding, the employees of another Chorus owned company have also been affected by this ESOP reduction. Ripple effect.
The reduction was all but announced November 2017, when the 2018 match was communicated, it was also mentioned that it was above the average employee program and basically don’t expect this to continue.
Also, of course other employees were affected, the E in ESOP is employee.
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Inverted2
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Inverted2 »

It’s easier to think of it as a pizza. You the employees that actually work get the slice. The management get the rest.
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av8ts
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Re: Esop reduction..

Post by av8ts »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:42 am
Rowdy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:32 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:25 pm
Little bird told me there is going to be at least 1 vacancy on the negotiating committee....

Man-up and volunteer,.... you got my vote.

58
We don't vote on the negotiating committee sadly...

I'm pretty sure two of them are off to AC now though and I wish them all the best.
Allowing representatives to negotiate a record 17 year contract while knowing full well they only had to endure months of set contract. This blows my mind.
Not to mention the fact it’s fair to assume their number 1 priority during the negotiations would have nothing to do with the well being of their fellow aviators, but would be to rock zero boats in order to maintain their hances if not having to work under the very shit contract they are negotiating.
You may lack the moral fibre to do the right thing in this situation does not mean that everyone does
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