August Equip Bid

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av8ts
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by av8ts » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:15 pm

fish4life wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:13 pm
Babar350 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 pm
Now that AC bid is out Jazz will need lots of pilots if AC needs to fill each GS with 60% of Jazz pilots.

I think Jazz will need to give AC 480 pilots ... ouch
That assuming the 600+ Transat pilots aren’t filling a bunch of them
I doubt very much that AC will park all the TS planes. Under ACPA rules AC will actually have to hire mores pilots to operate those aircraft
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Warden
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Warden » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:57 pm

fish4life wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:30 am
Not all, but if after the whole shakedown with Transat AC only needs 400 pilots instead of 800 that drops the Jazz requirement to 240. I don’t want people to make a decision assuming AC is going to take almost 500 Jazz pilots next year.
It's been said clearly by management at AC. The 800+ vacancies posted are needed now, for the planes we have now. The AT pilots are not included with this.

So given the 60%, that's minimum 480 pilots coming from Jazz in the next year to two years. That is going to create a ridiculous amount of movement at Jazz.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Warden » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:59 pm

dhc# wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:18 am
There are many variables, but does anyone have a somewhat accurate "guesstimate" for how many AC will take from Jazz going into 2020 and beyond ??

I get the delayed Jazz bid will detail more but I am curious to what everyone thinks will happen...
I don't think AC even knows what they themselves will be doing in 2020 and beyond. Things change yearly. I hardly expect anyone to know until the time comes.

There is only one thing that is true. 800+ vacancies just posted yesterday at AC. So that means 480+ pilots from Jazz.
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fish4life
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by fish4life » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:35 am

Can jazz lose 500 pilots next year ? That’s about 1/3 of the list if I’m not mistaken then, is there even enough FO’s with AA’s to upgrade that many?

This is not a shot at Jazz, I don’t think any of the airlines except maybe WJ or AC have enough right seat experience to backfill CPT spots when 1/3 of the list leaves in a year.
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Babar350
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Babar350 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:03 am

Does Jazz have 480 eligible pilots that would want to flow to AC?
Basically, 480 pilots that have at least 2 years of experience, 2000 TT AND their ATPL...
Unless AC changes the minimum requirements.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:07 am

fish4life wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:35 am
Can jazz lose 500 pilots next year ? That’s about 1/3 of the list if I’m not mistaken then, is there even enough FO’s with AA’s to upgrade that many?

This is not a shot at Jazz, I don’t think any of the airlines except maybe WJ or AC have enough right seat experience to backfill CPT spots when 1/3 of the list leaves in a year.
Its been discussed that DEC will likely happen by end of 2020.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by ToolShed » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:38 pm

Babar350 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:03 am
Does Jazz have 480 eligible pilots that would want to flow to AC?
Basically, 480 pilots that have at least 2 years of experience, 2000 TT AND their ATPL...
Unless AC changes the minimum requirements.
Minimums highly unlikely.
The flow through ratio will be renegotiated.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Warden » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:05 pm

ToolShed wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:38 pm
Babar350 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:03 am
Does Jazz have 480 eligible pilots that would want to flow to AC?
Basically, 480 pilots that have at least 2 years of experience, 2000 TT AND their ATPL...
Unless AC changes the minimum requirements.
Minimums highly unlikely.
The flow through ratio will be renegotiated.
No it won't. That's the only reason a 17 year deal got passed.

Jazz will hire DEC before any flow agreements or new hire pay gets changed. I guarantee it.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by C-GGGQ » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:26 pm

The real question is what will the DEC requirements look like, and will they actually find anyone who hasn't already gone on to AC WJ etc?
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Babar350
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Babar350 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:45 pm

Exactly, I assume they won't be asking the same requirement for a CRJ Captain position and a Dash8 Captain position ...

Interesting times ahead.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by L39Guy » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:20 pm

ToolShed wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:38 pm
Babar350 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:03 am
Does Jazz have 480 eligible pilots that would want to flow to AC?
Basically, 480 pilots that have at least 2 years of experience, 2000 TT AND their ATPL...
Unless AC changes the minimum requirements.
Minimums highly unlikely.
The flow through ratio will be renegotiated.
A deferred seniority number at AC is a likely solution...you get an AC seniority number when you are eligible, interviewed and required. One stays at Jazz longer to allow Jazz to manage the mainline move-up but when you do go to AC you get the seniority number you would have got had you gone when originally called. This would have to be clearly explained to all of the OTS new-hires during the hiring process.
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Babar350
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Babar350 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:58 pm

The deferred seniority doesn't solve the drop in salary from the 4 first year when one flows from Jazz Captain to AC FO.

Lots of solutions...
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Outlaw58 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:47 am

No equipment bid in the fall....

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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by KenoraPilot » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:35 pm

Next equipment/position bid Jan 2020.
Lots of backfills though the way it sounds. The backfills will be done next week from the ESB. Sounds like quite a few CA and FO positions available.
Also GGN Pilots from MOS4 are to begin training in October
Expecting Jan 2020 bid to be "large & expansive"
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Outlaw58 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:29 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:35 pm
Expecting Jan 2020 bid to be "large & expansive"
Understatement? LOL :)

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Babar350
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Babar350 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:31 am

Does it mean Jazz is well-staffed? Especially with GGN pilots joining.
If no bidding, hiring will slow or is Jazz short-staffed on the FO side?
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Outlaw58 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:08 am

Babar350 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:31 am
Does it mean Jazz is well-staffed? Especially with GGN pilots joining.
If no bidding, hiring will slow or is Jazz short-staffed on the FO side?
Even though there is no equipment bid, there are a lot of vacancies to be filled. It was stated in the communication we received and we can see that the staffing level is low, even if folks weren't leaving for AC.

There is need to fill many vacancies on both the FO and CA rosters and it is my personal opinion that GGN intake will not be sufficient to cover all vacancies. It is also my personal guess that an agreement to phase the transition of GGN pilot will be put in place (if not already) which should leave a few non-GGN positions in the upcoming ground schools.

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rudder
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by rudder » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:14 am

Lots of GGN pilots that were awarded positions in the January bid no longer work for GGN. Hence, they have no transfer rights to Jazz and these positions will have to be filled. Apparently using backfill vs a systemwide Position Bid.

My guess is that neither Jazz nor ALPA have a clue who still works at GGN from January and therefore would have no idea how to include them again in a system bid. Pilots hired at GGN after January 2019 have no bidding rights at Jazz.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by KenoraPilot » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:24 am

rudder wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:14 am
Lots of GGN pilots that were awarded positions in the January bid no longer work for GGN. Hence, they have no transfer rights to Jazz and these positions will have to be filled. Apparently using backfill vs a systemwide Position Bid.

My guess is that neither Jazz nor ALPA have a clue who still works at GGN from January and therefore would have no idea how to include them again in a system bid. Pilots hired at GGN after January 2019 have no bidding rights at Jazz.
I personally don't think AC, Jazz, ALPA or GGN really have a clue whats going at the moment and are just trying to hold it together for the fall/winter flying. AC & Transat purchase is likely taking up a lot of AC time and AC vs GGN law suit is likely dividing attention. This bid doesn't surprise me as the 737MAX issues hasn't been fixed and even with the 800+ vacancies AC has its not going to rock the boat at the moment and just continue on the path its currently on. I honestly think they're kicking the can down the road to get the GGN transfer done, AC + Transat done and hopefully 737 Max back in line by the Jan 2020 bid. AC is juggling a lot of balls at the moment so a status quo bid is actually not the worst thing that can happen.

I personally expect to see 50+ CA Vacancies system wide in this backfill. (personal guess)

Will see in Jan where all the balls fall into place, until then I expect hiring dept to be busy....3 GS in Oct, 2 in Nov and no word on Dec yet, but I'd expect at least 1. Once we see the make up of the first 2-3 Oct GS's we will have an idea of they are 100% GGN or a blend.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by iflyroads » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:04 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:24 am

.... and AC vs GGN law suit is likely dividing attention.
Any source to this? As far as I know it's just a rumour going around and no one in the know I've talked to knows about a lawsuit.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Malfunction » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:47 pm

How many yyc skipper spots you think will be available? Would be nice to get a heads up in advance from the company.
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by KenoraPilot » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:08 pm

iflyroads wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:04 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:24 am

.... and AC vs GGN law suit is likely dividing attention.
Any source to this? As far as I know it's just a rumour going around and no one in the know I've talked to knows about a lawsuit.

Just rumour as well but a fun one :p
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by KenoraPilot » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:10 pm

Malfunction wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:47 pm
How many yyc skipper spots you think will be available? Would be nice to get a heads up in advance from the company.
I don't know but I doubt a ton. Likely you'll see lots in YYZ and YVR. YYC has been trending towards baseline since Jan 2019 bid. Not sure if they will bump those numbers back up again because of attrition or not. YYC is slowly shrinking so no clue if YYC will see many new CA spots.

I'd love to see the positions they are "backfilling" but I doubt it and likely you'll just see an award when its done. So hopefully everyone has their ESB updated!
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by Chips&Pops » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:30 pm

So I guess even the backfilling is delayed... the boys forever waiting :rolleyes:
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Re: August Equip Bid

Post by KenoraPilot » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:37 pm

Chips&Pops wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:30 pm
So I guess even the backfilling is delayed... the boys forever waiting :rolleyes:
Nothing published yet.....so ya maybe next week? lol
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