Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

[throwaway123]

Not all AC pilots get pos J class on DH's, RPs get pos Y with space available J which is pretty much never available anyways. And none of us get it for pass travel on our C2s unless using a special pass which we have a very limited amount. So don't go saying how we all get space available J on pass travel because that's not true.

FO's only just got it on DH's a few years ago so baby steps. The best I can see Jazz getting is space available upgrades based on a C4 pass during DH's (after ML employees) and that is even reaching. Not that I don't think you guys shouldn't get that, I do, but that it's going to be pretty hard to convince AC to give that away.

[crj_705]

Don’t know how this got side-tracked into a discussion about travel benefits but just as an FYI...when our JAZZ crew scheduling department books our DH’s for company operations or we utilize our business profile for booking a banked DH business class seat, all pilots that were hired prior to 2006 are either PY3/J05 for business travel or C2 for pleasure travel with our YOS as the boarding priority.

[flyingcanuck]

This is why we get shit on. Ohhh shiny J class seats that'll sweeten the deal!

[dhc#]

This is why we get shit on. Ohhh shiny J class seats that'll sweeten the deal!

Waiting for the spin and gaslighting.

Are Jazz juniors about to be ball-gagged and introduced to the GIMP, over seniority.

[47north]

This is why we get shit on. Ohhh shiny J class seats that'll sweeten the deal!

Waiting for the spin and gaslighting.

Are Jazz juniors about to be ball-gagged and introduced to the GIMP, over seniority.

If you are a Jazz pilot, stop stirring the pot and wait until you see a tentative agreement. You have no idea what the negotiations are centred on.

If you’re not a Jazz pilot, mind your own business...

[Stu Pidasso]

How did Jazz (ALPA) ever allow a Biscuit Shooter to deadhead in J over a Pilot? I see it all the time, Jazz Captain and FA in J and the F/O humping it to a middle seat in the back.

Find me ANOTHER AIRLINE on the face of the earth that does that!

[Loon-A-Tic]

How did Jazz (ALPA) ever allow a Biscuit Shooter to deadhead in J over a Pilot? I see it all the time, Jazz Captain and FA in J and the F/O humping it to a middle seat in the back.

Find me ANOTHER AIRLINE on the face of the earth that does that!

Sorry, when did this go from discussing the title of the thread to a "bitch" session on travel privileges. I failed to see the relationship or relevance to the original topic.

[AA123455]

This is why we get shit on. Ohhh shiny J class seats that'll sweeten the deal!

Waiting for the spin and gaslighting.

Are Jazz juniors about to be ball-gagged and introduced to the GIMP, over seniority.

If you are a Jazz pilot, stop stirring the pot and wait until you see a tentative agreement. You have no idea what the negotiations are centred on.

If you’re not a Jazz pilot, mind your own business...

LOL! Why do you assume we’ll get J seats? Simple DOH integration, and fall position bid will smooth things out with seniority and seat within a year. Done. Vote YES boys and girls, we can’t let this deal slip by!

[YVR_pushpull12]

How did Jazz (ALPA) ever allow a Biscuit Shooter to deadhead in J over a Pilot? I see it all the time, Jazz Captain and FA in J and the F/O humping it to a middle seat in the back.

Find me ANOTHER AIRLINE on the face of the earth that does that!

Sorry, when did this go from discussing the title of the thread to a "bitch" session on travel privileges. I failed to see the relationship or relevance to the original topic.

There was mention of instead of trying to create what if scenarios on DOH we should try and look at what we can get out of this deal.

Better travel benefits was one of them (The fact an Air Canada call centre employees parents have better standby travel benefits then Regional pilots is sad)

in reality better FO/Captain pay is needed, RRSP contributions should be a little higher and at a minimum better per diem and hotel. Even reopening Halifax base to allow for affordable housing for pilots at Jazz would be a huge step.

[Loon-A-Tic]

How did Jazz (ALPA) ever allow a Biscuit Shooter to deadhead in J over a Pilot? I see it all the time, Jazz Captain and FA in J and the F/O humping it to a middle seat in the back.

Find me ANOTHER AIRLINE on the face of the earth that does that!

Sorry, when did this go from discussing the title of the thread to a "bitch" session on travel privileges. I failed to see the relationship or relevance to the original topic.

There was mention of instead of trying to create what if scenarios on DOH we should try and look at what we can get out of this deal.

Better travel benefits was one of them (The fact an Air Canada call centre employees parents have better standby travel benefits then Regional pilots is sad)

in reality better FO/Captain pay is needed, RRSP contributions should be a little higher and at a minimum better per diem and hotel. Even reopening Halifax base to allow for affordable housing for pilots at Jazz would be a huge step.

How about making it about industry unity first and the spin off benefits later, MUCH later.

[theflyinghotdog]

-

[Loon-A-Tic]

It seem like the time is right to "circle the wagons" before each operation gets pick off one by one and the bar just keeps getting lowered for all that remain.

[hithere]

Regarding how it is that an FA can ride J before an FO... AC picked some arbitrary date(I think it was 2012 maybe when SKY was formed and we all became Express) after which ANY(FO or FA) Express crew would not be eligible for a J upgrade regardless of availability in the front. So it has nothing to do with whether you are a pilot or FA- just date of hire. Here’s another little known fact- were you aware that Express employees all get charged service fees on pass travel based on distance and the number of sectors, as opposed to the flat $5 fee per direction for mainline employees? This is obviously on top of the AIF , security charges etc. that everyone pays. So a YYT-YYZ-YYT return flight for an Express employee is about $80 more per commuting trip than mainline. That follows whether these are mainline aircraft or Express and multiply that by several commutes a month and it becomes substantial

[hithere]

So even to rectify the Deadheading J availability(of course after mainlineRP which I think is a position that will be disappearing soon and not like Jazz crew would ever be on the same long Haul flights that a mainline DH RP would be on. Not to mention currently Jazz FO deadhead in the middle seat in the back from YYZ-YVR and then operate several legs to Alberta and back so it could be argued that they need good seat more than anyone) and the difference in pass travel fees would be a win

[throwaway123]

So even to rectify the Deadheading J availability(of course after mainlineRP which I think is a position that will be disappearing soon and not like Jazz crew would ever be on the same long Haul flights that a mainline DH RP would be on. Not to mention currently Jazz FO deadhead in the middle seat in the back from YYZ-YVR and then operate several legs to Alberta and back so it could be argued that they need good seat more than anyone) and the difference in pass travel fees would be a win

Lots of RPs end up deadheading YYZ-YVR or vise versa, YVR-YYC etc in an NB. But largely you are correct, there wouldn't' be much crossover.

At the end of the day everyone should have access at minimum to an empty seat in J. Both on DH's and during personal travel (even if it's at the bottom of the list after all the points upgrades). There is zero reason to let a J seat go empty on any flight if there is even one employee or express employee onboard. Other than of course control.

I know the last time around with the GGN merger, the negotiations committee was pretty clear during the road shows that they tried very hard to get J space available. Hopefully this time they might be successful. Given the state of the industry, I have a feeling a lot of the "wins" you'll see are going to be work/lifestyle related and not so much pay.

[Splash]

Regarding how it is that an FA can ride J before an FO... AC picked some arbitrary date(I think it was 2012 maybe when SKY was formed and we all became Express) after which ANY(FO or FA) Express crew would not be eligible for a J upgrade regardless of availability in the front. So it has nothing to do with whether you are a pilot or FA- just date of hire. Here’s another little known fact- were you aware that Express employees all get charged service fees on pass travel based on distance and the number of sectors, as opposed to the flat $5 fee per direction for mainline employees? This is obviously on top of the AIF , security charges etc. that everyone pays. So a YYT-YYZ-YYT return flight for an Express employee is about $80 more per commuting trip than mainline. That follows whether these are mainline aircraft or Express and multiply that by several commutes a month and it becomes substantial

In early 2012 AC announced changes to the CPA employee pass policy. The initial intent was to make all CPA employees C4 and POS Y only. After some persuasive arguments about their beneficial and lengthy historical relationship, Jazz was able to find some middle ground and convince AC to essentially grandfather employees hired prior to AC selling its controlling interest in early 2006. That may explain why you see FA's up front in J, most likely hired prior to 2006.
The differences in how the pass policy is applied between mainline and CPA carriers to me seems unfair, as in the example quoted, flat fee vs mileage being just one of a number. Strangely enough, it's the CPA employees that should be paying less, as they earn less. Oh well, life's not fair.

[hithere]

You are correct with the 2006 date for C4 versus C2 but there was yet another division created in 2012 when AC decided that no CPA employee on DH travel would be allowed to occupy a J class seat. If you see a post 2012 CPA pilot in a J class seat it’s only because the gate agent(or operating flight attendant) said “this second class citizen” bullshit is ridiculous and put said person in J out of the goodness of their heart

[sevendigits]

Don’t know how this got side-tracked into a discussion about travel benefits but just as an FYI...when our JAZZ crew scheduling department books our DH’s for company operations or we utilize our business profile for booking a banked DH business class seat, all pilots that were hired prior to 2006 are either PY3/J05 for business travel or C2 for pleasure travel with our YOS as the boarding priority.

My point exactly. How can someone hired prior to 2006 have the privilege of C2 travel or J class for DH when business space is available? I understand that these are employees that have been with Jazz for years (Canadian Regional and prior to Jazz). There is no justification for them being able to have these passes and employees hired after 2006 being treated like second class citizens. All Express employees regardless of date of hire should be treated equally. Shame on you AC for treating regional pilots flying "your" passengers like second class people! This is an issue that needs to be addressed along with many others. It is time pilots on the express side stand up and demand they be treated equally. Again, it is discrimination plain and simple. By the way we got side tracked since its a benefit that needs to be addressed.

[Splash]

Don’t know how this got side-tracked into a discussion about travel benefits but just as an FYI...when our JAZZ crew scheduling department books our DH’s for company operations or we utilize our business profile for booking a banked DH business class seat, all pilots that were hired prior to 2006 are either PY3/J05 for business travel or C2 for pleasure travel with our YOS as the boarding priority.

My point exactly. How can someone hired prior to 2006 have the privilege of C2 travel or J class for DH when business space is available? I understand that these are employees that have been with Jazz for years (Canadian Regional and prior to Jazz). There is no justification for them being able to have these passes and employees hired after 2006 being treated like second class citizens. All Express employees regardless of date of hire should be treated equally. Shame on you AC for treating regional pilots flying "your" passengers like second class people! This is an issue that needs to be addressed along with many others. It is time pilots on the express side stand up and demand they be treated equally. Again, it is discrimination plain and simple. By the way we got side tracked since its a benefit that needs to be addressed.

Jazz employees prior to 2006 were essentially employee's of AC subsidiary division that they ( AC ) had a controlling interest. Once they no longer had that controlling interest (2006), those same employee's were grandfathered under the previous travel policy and everyone that came after was in simple terms a contractor. It was all part of the 2003 CCAA restructuring where ACE Enterprises monetized and sold off a number of units, AVEOS, Aeroplan and Jazz.

[timeflies]

Regarding how it is that an FA can ride J before an FO... AC picked some arbitrary date(I think it was 2012 maybe when SKY was formed and we all became Express) after which ANY(FO or FA) Express crew would not be eligible for a J upgrade regardless of availability in the front. So it has nothing to do with whether you are a pilot or FA- just date of hire. Here’s another little known fact- were you aware that Express employees all get charged service fees on pass travel based on distance and the number of sectors, as opposed to the flat $5 fee per direction for mainline employees? This is obviously on top of the AIF , security charges etc. that everyone pays. So a YYT-YYZ-YYT return flight for an Express employee is about $80 more per commuting trip than mainline. That follows whether these are mainline aircraft or Express and multiply that by several commutes a month and it becomes substantial

Not sure where your getting your info. But your 100% wrong. AC staff (pilots) pay all the fees. If your getting charged $80 per commute from Yyt return then AC pilots who commute are getting ripped off. Because it’s over $100 from Yyt return, that’s direct flight for mainline pilots. Now no drift your liking at around $150.. Just dropping a few facts as your trying to stir the pot without the facts.

Cheers

He’s 100% right. All Jazz Pilots and staff get charged service fees on top of the cost of the flight ticket. All mainline employees don’t have to pay it, even the ramp guys(no disrespect to the ramp guys, I was one of them), or the gate agent. Hell, even their C5 doesn’t have to pay service fees!