Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

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haironfire
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by haironfire »

Zaibatsu, I like where this thought-process is going. Thank you. It is just business, and unfortunately, we as pilots go for the ride. But as smart pilots we should see the curve ball coming, if we can.
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by rudder »

Flair is looking to take advantage the same way SWA always grows coming out of each recession. WJ will push back with Swoop. AC will compete with restricted fares in overlapping markets. May run head-to-head with the Rouge NB product on some city pairs.

Packaged tour operators SW/TS will emerge for winter 2021/2022 season. Will not be return to normal but strong demand where travel restrictions are reasonable (i.e. vaccination record).

Jazz/Encore will see increased domestic operations exiting Q3. On jet routes AC will deploy Express jet product until demand justifies larger gauge from mainline. Normalized traffic volumes in 2023 and beyond may see AC revert some domestic city pairs from Express to Rouge NB to lower CASM.

AC faces the toughest path. Exposed in all segments. International will face a slow recovery. US operations will remain problematic if US subscription to vaccination remains ambiguous. US feed to AC overseas operations is a critical component. Cargo operations for AC may become the bright spot exiting the travel recession.
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Last edited by rudder on Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
rudder
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by rudder »

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haironfire
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by haironfire »

Excellent analysis rudder. This is why we cannot stick our heads in the sand just hoping that we will be ok, as the world around us comes crashing in. It behooves us to monitor our position in the industry. Aviation in Canada currently is very volatile, and there will be a lot of changes coming up. Some people will be very happy, and others not so much.
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Last edited by haironfire on Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kosiw
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by Kosiw »

And what of the Dash 8 100/300 routes AC/Express gave up, there will be opportunity for a revival of some form of Tier 3s to provide feed to/from those affected communities.

Chorus owns another aviation company than does operate some of the ex-Jazz Dash 8 fleet (although under a different business model)... hypothetically, they could step in, ramp up and become another contractor to AC outside of the CPA for Tier 3 routes....it would keep that flying under the Chorus/AC banner.
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mbav8r
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by mbav8r »

Kosiw wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:52 am And what of the Dash 8 100/300 routes AC/Express gave up, there will be opportunity for a revival of some form of Tier 3s to provide feed to/from those affected communities.

Chorus owns another aviation company than does operate some of the ex-Jazz Dash 8 fleet (although under a different business model)... hypothetically, they could step in, ramp up and become another contractor to AC outside of the CPA for Tier 3 routes....it would keep that flying under the Chorus/AC banner.
Regarding the “other” Chorus company, there is a contract violation grievance in abeyance, if they were awarded any “competitive” flying, that grievance would be dealt with.
Our contract states all flying done by Chorus or affiliate will be done by Jazz pilots on the seniority list, all pilots on our list would be on our contract so no savings there, providing the grievance goes our way.
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Dias
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by Dias »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:17 am Our contract states all flying done by Chorus or affiliate will be done by Jazz pilots
So when are you on your way to South Sudan?
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mbav8r
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by mbav8r »

**** wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:46 am
mbav8r wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:17 am Our contract states all flying done by Chorus or affiliate will be done by Jazz pilots
So when are you on your way to South Sudan?
That is exactly why the grievance is in abeyance, none of the current flying competes with us, if that changes....

a·bey·ance
/əˈbāəns/
noun: abeyance
a state of temporary disuse or suspension.
"matters were held in abeyance pending further inquiries
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by rudder »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:52 am
**** wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:46 am
mbav8r wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:17 am Our contract states all flying done by Chorus or affiliate will be done by Jazz pilots
So when are you on your way to South Sudan?
That is exactly why the grievance is in abeyance, none of the current flying competes with us, if that changes....

a·bey·ance
/əˈbāəns/
noun: abeyance
a state of temporary disuse or suspension.
"matters were held in abeyance pending further inquiries
One would think that with 600+ Jazz pilots on layoff/CEWS that there should be a preferred hiring arrangement with Voyageur, no?
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mbav8r
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by mbav8r »

rudder wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:58 am
mbav8r wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:52 am
**** wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:46 am

So when are you on your way to South Sudan?
That is exactly why the grievance is in abeyance, none of the current flying competes with us, if that changes....

a·bey·ance
/əˈbāəns/
noun: abeyance
a state of temporary disuse or suspension.
"matters were held in abeyance pending further inquiries
One would think that with 600+ Jazz pilots on layoff/CEWS that there should be a preferred hiring arrangement with Voyageur, no?
Absolutely, why isn’t there? A good question for the MEC!
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swervin
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by swervin »

They've hired quite a few laid off Jazz pilots at Voyageur over the last year.
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mbav8r
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by mbav8r »

swervin wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:26 am They've hired quite a few laid off Jazz pilots at Voyageur over the last year.
Great, why can’t there be an agreement all new hires are! After all if the grievance were in our favour, Voyageur pilots would be Jazz pilots. Anyhow, something worth looking in to.
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Splash
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by Splash »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:17 am
Kosiw wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:52 am And what of the Dash 8 100/300 routes AC/Express gave up, there will be opportunity for a revival of some form of Tier 3s to provide feed to/from those affected communities.

Chorus owns another aviation company than does operate some of the ex-Jazz Dash 8 fleet (although under a different business model)... hypothetically, they could step in, ramp up and become another contractor to AC outside of the CPA for Tier 3 routes....it would keep that flying under the Chorus/AC banner.
Regarding the “other” Chorus company, there is a contract violation grievance in abeyance, if they were awarded any “competitive” flying, that grievance would be dealt with.
Our contract states all flying done by Chorus or affiliate will be done by Jazz pilots on the seniority list, all pilots on our list would be on our contract so no savings there, providing the grievance goes our way.
If Jazz withdraws the DH3's and moves them to Voyageur, would they be considered to be operating " competitive " flying aircraft when Jazz no longer operates the type? Seems like that could be a grey area.
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simply_no_one
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by simply_no_one »

Kosiw wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:52 am

Chorus owns another aviation company than does operate some of the ex-Jazz Dash 8 fleet (although under a different business model)... hypothetically, they could step in, ramp up and become another contractor to AC outside of the CPA for Tier 3 routes....it would keep that flying under the Chorus/AC banner.
Not if Jazz's contract has anything to say about it. All regional domestic flying in Canada under Chorus is owned by Jazz pilots. Chorus can't ramp up Voyageur to fly in Canada as a CPA/Tier 3. There's already an open grievance that's been "put on hold" as both sides agreed so long as Voyageur only flys overseas, then Jazz ALPA is fine with it.
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mbav8r
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by mbav8r »

Splash wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:24 am
mbav8r wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:17 am
Kosiw wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:52 am And what of the Dash 8 100/300 routes AC/Express gave up, there will be opportunity for a revival of some form of Tier 3s to provide feed to/from those affected communities.

Chorus owns another aviation company than does operate some of the ex-Jazz Dash 8 fleet (although under a different business model)... hypothetically, they could step in, ramp up and become another contractor to AC outside of the CPA for Tier 3 routes....it would keep that flying under the Chorus/AC banner.
Regarding the “other” Chorus company, there is a contract violation grievance in abeyance, if they were awarded any “competitive” flying, that grievance would be dealt with.
Our contract states all flying done by Chorus or affiliate will be done by Jazz pilots on the seniority list, all pilots on our list would be on our contract so no savings there, providing the grievance goes our way.
If Jazz withdraws the DH3's and moves them to Voyageur, would they be considered to be operating " competitive " flying aircraft when Jazz no longer operates the type? Seems like that could be a grey area.
It’s the type of work, not the aircraft doing it and given it’s an aircraft being removed from the fleet, not really grey.
I believe Jazz also has a clause in the CPA that says it can’t bid on any new work, I don’t think they are being removed to give them to pivot but you never know.
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FL030
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by FL030 »

simply_no_one wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:18 pm Voyageur only flys overseas, then Jazz ALPA is fine with it.
Voyageur flies domestically sometimes. Things like crew changes at Musselwhite mine, for example.
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hithere
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by hithere »

Jazz has a clause in the CPA that says it CAN bid on any new work, as in the right to match any competing bid
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throwaway123
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by throwaway123 »

FL030 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:05 pm
simply_no_one wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:18 pm Voyageur only flys overseas, then Jazz ALPA is fine with it.
Voyageur flies domestically sometimes. Things like crew changes at Musselwhite mine, for example.
That's permitted because it's a charter.

Sked flying is what's protected by the Jazz collective agreement.
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throwaway123
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by throwaway123 »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:50 pm
It’s the type of work, not the aircraft doing it and given it’s an aircraft being removed from the fleet, not really grey.
I believe Jazz also has a clause in the CPA that says it can’t bid on any new work, I don’t think they are being removed to give them to pivot but you never know.
Not only just bid on it. IIRC the language basically says that if Jazz matches any other bid, they get the contract. So if Pivot bids on DHC-300 flying, so long as Jazz/Chorus are able to match the bid (which may require some negotiating with the pilots) they get the contract.
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throwaway123
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Re: Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

Post by throwaway123 »

Curious what the vibe is on the line about the new merged list?
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