Air Canada Revises the Terms of its Capacity Purchase Agreement with Chorus Aviation for Regional Flying

[the-minister31]

We maybe all be ALPA...
But Sky undermined our contract and did it with complicity now its
lets hold hands and be one big happy family...at Jazz.

I stand by my comments and I'm not alone.

One thing I don't understand... Your narrative implies that Sky pilots say negative things about Jazz, where does that come from? I only have positive things to say about Jazz, all my co-workers, as far as I know, don't have anything bad to say about Jazz...

The big thing that triggered me (and I admit, I kinda lost it and shouldn't have) from your comment is that you seem to want to treat ex-sky pilots differently than Jazz ones. I think it's wrong, especially that now we may wear the same uniform. I understand the seniority issues, the recall concern and all... but did we really do anything to deserve a different treatment? What did we, the Sky pilot group, do to affect your contract that you wouldn't have done in the same place?

To all Sky Pilots - disregard all this BS. Come with a good attitude and you will be welcomed by the vast majority of Jazz pilots.

Thank you, I look forward to it.

[GATRKGA]

I hope the Sky pilots realize how lucky they are. And if i hear one negative comment outta of them about Jazz i swear ......
You got handed a golden ticket.I flew with guys who couldn't wait to leave Jazz for "big Jets" like at Transat...
I ask what are those guys doing now??? sitting on there buts WISHing they could still be at Jazz.

Be gracious, be grateful and leave the attitudes at the door

Good luck and congrats to sky guys for getting awarded the right eventual outcome.

Yeah congrats??? for what?>??

good luck??

more like Holly Shit you won the F'ing lottery!!!
at the expense of better more qualified pilots that have been on site longer than any Sky pilot

I hope you keep your head down because it will have a target on it with all these Jazz pilots sitting at home waiting....

Thanks for giving me some comedy today. Assuming you're not a troll, have you considered seeking assistance from the pilot support committee?

You claim you're a Jazz training captain, your demeanor seems to not fall inline with what one would expect from you.

Also, as for Sky pilot's undermining the contract. Really? Let's direct the anger to the source of who voted in favor of the E175's going to Sky. Let me give you a hint, it wasn't the Jazz pilot's, and it certainly wasn't the Sky pilot's.

must be embarrassing when you step up to the urinal and you piss on your balls

I can't quite say I've ever experienced that before, I'm sorry if you have. Is it why you're so mad?

Good luck with your integration.

[the-minister31]

Who do they think they are?

They think(know) they are Jazz pilots who have been there from 1 to 10 years who will now lose seniority during the worst time our industry has ever seen. Any of those juniors under 2 years have only seen their seniority decrease.

Times have changed and this is a step forward towards industry/career protections but you must recognize it’s at the expense of the junior Jazz group. Now we move forward, with respect for the implications for all involved. What other choice do we have?

I do understand that, and I really hope that this consolidation means faster recalls so the impact is minimal. I simply meant that this should not mean Sky guys should be seen any different than other Jazz pilots. The "who do you think you are" was because I don't understand why he/she think he/she can tell us how to feel about the integration. It was directed towards the individual who told be how to feel about the situation. I really am grateful, but not because he/she told me to be.

Although I admit that I should have used better judgement before posting, the Jazz pilot group is affected by the situation, especially juniors, and I did not mean to generalize or underplay how you guys are impacted by the situation. I just wish that, when at work, we can work together and have a good time regardless of where we are from.

[GATRKGA]

Who do they think they are?

They think(know) they are Jazz pilots who have been there from 1 to 10 years who will now lose seniority during the worst time our industry has ever seen. Any of those juniors under 2 years have only seen their seniority decrease.

Times have changed and this is a step forward towards industry/career protections but you must recognize it’s at the expense of the junior Jazz group. Now we move forward, with respect for the implications for all involved. What other choice do we have?

I do understand that, and I really hope that this consolidation means faster recalls so the impact is minimal. I simply meant that this should not mean Sky guys should be seen any different than other Jazz pilots. The "who do you think you are" was because I don't understand why he/she think he/she can tell us how to feel about the integration. It was directed towards the individual who told be how to feel about the situation. I really am grateful, but not because he/she told me to be.

Although I admit that I should have used better judgement before posting, the Jazz pilot group is affected by the situation, especially juniors, and I did not mean to generalize or underplay how you guys are impacted by the situation. I just wish that, when at work, we can work together and have a good time regardless of where we are from.

Without sounding like too much of an old fart, the juniors have to remember one thing. Nothing in life comes in a parabolic fashion. Anything that moves in parabolic tandem, will always retrieve some of its gains. So while many of you youngins went from literally no experience to sitting in a 705 machine, don't under estimate that the typical journey was never as fast as yours.

So do I aim to mean that just because the previous generation ate shit, so do you? No, absolutely not. In fact I think it's an important and much needed upgrade to how pilot's used to integrate into the industry regionals and majors. But it's an important part of history that I think you need to both understand, and appreciate.

So what does this mean? If you're a 20 some year old First Officer at Jazz, upset by the integration of 280 some sky regional pilot's, understand that you'd probably not even be on a seniority list with 90% chance of going to AC as little as just 5 years ago.

Does appreciation of that pay the bills? No. It doesn't, and I understand that. But understand that in the big picture, you have it better than you would have had it waiting in life for what likely would have been your 2nd or 3rd year before you got to fly a Metro in Thompson, or The pas or something similar.

It will all work out guys and gals.

Yeah congrats??? for what?>??

good luck??

more like Holly Shit you won the F'ing lottery!!!
at the expense of better more qualified pilots that have been on site longer than any Sky pilot

I hope you keep your head down because it will have a target on it with all these Jazz pilots sitting at home waiting....

Thanks for giving me some comedy today. Assuming you're not a troll, have you considered seeking assistance from the pilot support committee?

You claim you're a Jazz training captain, your demeanor seems to not fall inline with what one would expect from you.

Also, as for Sky pilot's undermining the contract. Really? Let's direct the anger to the source of who voted in favor of the E175's going to Sky. Let me give you a hint, it wasn't the Jazz pilot's, and it certainly wasn't the Sky pilot's.

must be embarrassing when you step up to the urinal and you piss on your balls

I can't quite say I've ever experienced that before, I'm sorry if you have. Is it why you're so mad?

Good luck with your integration.

Here we go......try to be the reasonable one now?/
all the comments and attacks you have done through your years on AvCana and you are try to tell me??????
Thats RICH.....




its no wonderer i left this site years ago..

Loosers who troll and have nothing to do do but complain.....about stuff than they don't even know about ...and then try to criticize someone who is actually involved ????WTF??? what is wrong with you people.

Their are People who are Pilots than there are Pilots who are people.

I see your not use to people standing up to you?

I believe in PMs to be private btw.

Jack ass

There's nothing private about your demeanor. As for having people stand up to me? If they have a good reason that outdoes my reasoning, I usually listen to them and take the lesson with me forward. You however, haven't displayed anything worth taking forth with. I'll remove the PM, since I think your behavior speaks for itself. Have a good day dude.

[Terry_Flaps]

I was just about to ask how many SKV pilots were headed to Jazz, but thanks GATRKGA for the answer.

I'd rather work with a SKV pilot than a college kid. I get that last sentence may piss off a few, but the 280 are bringing actual real world experience and operational knowledge. Hard to get in the past few years with new hires.

[Sharklasers]

There is that world class ALPA representation we keep hearing about. F÷=% your junior members as long as CB's buddies can catch a fat sack on the way out the door.
But dont worry boys, you couldnt be trusted to participate in the decision making this time.

[Explainittome]

March 15, 2021
Information on Agreements with Jazz

Fellow Pilots;

Late last night, we reached tentative agreements with the Company on terms to incorporate the E175 fleet type and Pilots from Sky Regional Airlines, along with several other related items. The MEC subsequently met in-person in Kingston ON, to review the agreements and voted unanimously that the agreements would be accepted and implemented via MEC ratification.

In the coming days, there will be an informational campaign including a Negotiating Committee presentation, supporting documents, e-mail inbox where Pilots can submit questions, and a "Contact" Q&A. Thank you for your patience while we prepare and schedule these things. In the interim, the agreements are summarized below:


MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT - Respecting the Integration of Pilots from Sky Regional Airlines Inc. into the Jazz Aviation LP Bargaining Unit

This agreement addresses the integration of Pilots from Sky Regional Airlines and fleet addition of the E175 aircraft. To highlight:
Nothing changes in the immediate term for any current active members; current active JAZ (635+41) and SKV Pilots (123) remain actively employed and protected from layoff until bid 2022-02 or September 30, 2022 (whichever is later); current inactive JAZ Pilots remain inactive; current inactive SKV Pilots remain inactive.
SKV Pilots added to JAZ Seniority List by date of hire (DOH) for all purposes except recall. For clarity, SKV Pilots will assume their DOH for all purposes once recalled
Secures future employment for laid off SKV Pilots; Creation of a Recall List (ordered all inactive JAZ Pilots first, then all laid off SKV Pilots)
104 JAZ Pilots will be recalled (see MOS-6)
If E175 Captains are required to be upgraded for summer flying, temporarily downgraded JAZ Captains will be reinstated or will be paid bypass pay on 1-for-1 basis
Provisions for E175 recalls of laid off SKV Pilots out of recall order to cover flying until September 2022, with associated recalls and Captain reinstatement to protect JAZ Pilots who are impacted.
Current active SKV Pilots protected in E175 positions until all Pilots recalled (except in the event of a future reduction/displacement Position Bid)
Inactive SKV Pilots able to access Canada Emergency Wage Subsidy

LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING No. 49 – One Time Special Separation Package (SSP)

This agreement enables the Company to reduce short-term costs, long-term pension obligations, and provide cost reductions for the next fleet discussions in 2025 by offering Pilots separation agreements based upon the following:
Prorated at a daily rate to your age on date of separation:
62-63 (Per ERP eligibility)
61 ($175,000)
60 ($200,000)
59 ($275,000)
58 ($300,000)
57 ($350,000)
56 ($375,000)
55-50 ($400,000)
Pilot applicants who, on the date of separation, have attained their 50th birthday and on January 1, 2021 they had not reached their 63rd birthday, are eligible
Separation date between June 1 to September 15 at Company discretion, considering Pilot requests
Payout terms: various lump-sum options; or, semi-monthly for 12, 24 or 36 months
Pension buyback: currently working out details
Application period March 31 to April 23; irrevocable once your agreement is signed
Current ERP Pilots considered as applying for SSP unless requested otherwise

MEMORANDUM OF SETTLEMENT No. 6 – For Modifications to Collective Agreement No. 5

This agreement provides for permanent changes to the Collective Agreement. In short:
Air Canada flow language (3-14) amended:
While any Pilot on the Pilot System Seniority List is laid off, Air Canada shall endeavor to increase their offers of employment to Pilots on the Pilot System Seniority List above the sixty percent (60%) as per Section 3-14, if operationally feasible.
When Pilot hiring at Air Canada is planned to be less than one hundred (100) Pilots per Year, Air Canada shall offer no less than seventy percent (70%) of its new hire Positions to Pilots on the Pilot System Seniority List who have applied. This shall remain in effect until December 31, 2025.
Pilots on the Pilot System Seniority List that were previously interviewed at Air Canada shall be able to re-apply to enter the Air Canada recruitment process. If these Pilots are not successful in securing an offer from Air Canada, they shall not count towards the ten percent (10%) turn down ratio.
Employee Share Ownership Plan (10-10) amended:
From January 1, 2021 to December 31, 2025, Pilots electing to participate in the Company’s employee share ownership plan (“ESOP”) shall receive an additional thirty percent (30%) of their contribution over and above the Company’s stated employer match, up to a maximum of seventy percent (70%). [Currently 20% to a max of 60%]
Pilot Recalls
104 Pilots recalled on May 1, 2020, on the following terms:
Pilots shall be recalled to their original Equipment and Base as First Officers.
Pilots may request a Temporary Base change on the same Equipment.
All recalled Pilots shall be returned to the RECALL LIST for the purpose of a Pilot Position Bid.
Recalled Dash 8 Pilots may, in order of seniority in their Base, be offered training on Q400 or CRJ Equipment at the discretion of the Company. Pilots completing an initial course on either the Q400 or CRJ shall not be considered as Frozen unless a Pilot Position Bid results in the Pilot being awarded the same Equipment.
Captain Downgrade protection
All active Captains as of March 14, 2021, shall remain protected as Captains until September 2022 or bid 2022-02 (whichever is later)
Jazz Pilot Assistance
All Jazz Pilots on CEWS, voluntary CEWS or layoff as of May 1, 2021 shall receive a payment from the Company of one thousand five hundred dollars ($1500) by May 25, 2021.
Sky Regional Pilot Assistance
Each Sky Regional Pilot upon recall, shall be credited with fifteen (15) time bank Credits. These time bank Credits may only be used for time off.
Collective Agreement accruals commence 1-for-1 upon recall of a junior JAZ pilot.
TB2 for delayed ops beyond 4-hour delay
FOSAP implementation penalty (eTRIP commuting cost) after September 1, 2021

Over the last 14 days, the JAZ MEC met nine times for briefings and decisions as this agreement came together, culminating in an in-person meeting in Kingston ON. Those meetings included consultations with ALPA Representation, external legal counsel Denis Ellickson, and our advisors Ken Rosenberg and Lily Harmer (Bankruptcy and Insolvency Counsel from Paliare Roland Rosenberg Rothstein LLP) and Andrew Lokan (Labour Relations Counsel from Paliare Roland Rosenberg Rothstein LLP).

Several factors were considered in the MEC's decision to implement the agreement via MEC ratification, and those factors will be discussed further in the upcoming information campaign.

This was not a merger by ALPA policy or law. Notwithstanding, several principles and methodologies in ALPA policy and case law for the creation of Integrated Seniority Lists were modeled in order to ensure fairness and equity and eliminate any possibility of reversal by an administrative tribunal or court. ISLs alone cannot be subject to member ratification, especially when the prevailing party is larger or has more control. Also, the terms of LOU 49 and MOS-6 did not affect the pay, working conditions, retirement, or career security of member Pilots in a negative manner (only positive or voluntary changes). Additionally, the MEC was privy to confidential material and non-public information related to the CPA amendments that could not be shared with the Pilot group at large. As a result, Pilots would have to vote on incomplete information. We will share this information with you as soon as we are able. Finally, a complete roadshow, open house, information campaign, and voting window was not possible due to the pandemic and timelines required to stand-up the E175 operation for the summer. In order to ensure adequate staffing for the summer, if an agreement had not been finalized this weekend, the integration would need to be delayed until this fall. The MEC was unwilling to risk a delay and possibly lose the opportunity to absorb the E175 flying.

Since Jazz has no E175 initial course approved, Sky Regional pilots are a critical part of the fleet addition. The first CIT/CRM course of 20 active SKV Pilots will commence Wednesday morning, with the class composed of Management, Training and an initial group of line pilots. CIT/CRM will be followed with a very short simulator program. Jazz E175 ground schools will continue for 20 SKV Pilots every two weeks until all 123 are complete for the summer. The Company is developing an initial course and future vacancies on the fleet type will be available in the next Position Bid as flying increases.

We have said this several times, but again thank everyone for their patience as this process played out in an unusually public manner. In addition to travelling home and resuming virtual work, we will endeavor to prepare and publish information as quickly as possible.

This agreement is the culmination of a 10-year goal of the JAZ MEC to reach successive agreements with Jazz that enabled reconsolidation of the Air Canada Express fleet. We must learn from events of the past in order to continue advancing our profession. We are stronger together and look forward to welcoming our Sky Regional colleagues.

More to come in the following days.

In solidarity,

JAZ MEC



Thats the DAMAGE

Can someone explain this to me like I’m 5 years old. What does it mean for a laid off SKV pilot?

[Goodman5]

So what does this mean? If you're a 20 some year old First Officer at Jazz, upset by the integration of 280 some sky regional pilot's, understand that you'd probably not even be on a seniority list with 90% chance of going to AC as little as just 5 years ago.

This right here is what needs to change. Many of the Jazz pilots who are affected by this have earned their keep just as you old farts did. (After my 5 years in the high North I've come to realize many of you DIDN'T). I'm in my 30's, have a family, and I've tossed more bags/fuel drums/animal carcass than most of the old guys I've been paired with. At Jazz for ~5 years now and I know tons of fellow Jazz pilots who are affected by this who spent time all over Northern Canada and did the same.







'

[47north]

There is that world class ALPA representation we keep hearing about. F÷=% your junior members as long as CB's buddies can catch a fat sack on the way out the door.
But dont worry boys, you couldnt be trusted to participate in the decision making this time.

I'm sure I will regret asking, but how exactly did the junior Jazz pilots get F÷=%ed as you say?

- 123 active Sky pilots coming over offset by 104 Jazz recalls May 1
- slightly enhanced flow which benefits juniors
- Captain downgrade protection
- If additional Sky pilots are required this summer out of seniority, then 1 for 1 recalls and upgrades for current Jazz pilots
- otherwise all Jazz pilots recalled before a Sky pilot. Bringing on the 175s also will mean an earlier recall for current Jazz versus if the aircraft didn't come.

Doesn't look like they got F÷=%ed to me.

[Sharklasers]

There is that world class ALPA representation we keep hearing about. F÷=% your junior members as long as CB's buddies can catch a fat sack on the way out the door.
But dont worry boys, you couldnt be trusted to participate in the decision making this time.

I'm sure I will regret asking, but how exactly did the junior Jazz pilots get F÷=%ed as you say?

- 123 active Sky pilots coming over offset by 104 Jazz recalls May 1
- slightly enhanced flow which benefits juniors
- Captain downgrade protection
- If additional Sky pilots are required this summer out of seniority, then 1 for 1 recalls and upgrades for current Jazz pilots
- otherwise all Jazz pilots recalled before a Sky pilot. Bringing on the 175s also will mean an earlier recall for current Jazz versus if the aircraft didn't come.

Doesn't look like they got F÷=%ed to me.

Why don’t we ask those junior pilots if they would rather have a marginally faster recall or 280 pilots popped in front of them for literally EVER. 280 pilots in front of you for seat progression, basing, equipment, bidding, vacation, flow through to AC.
And when they finally get to AC 3 years later than they otherwise would to begin their 4 years of slave wages guess what? Those same 280 pilots are in front them for seat progression, bidding, vacation, basing, equipment, ect.
In this industry it pays to think long term, so I say again why don’t we ask those junior pilots what they want, oh wait, the Jazz MEC decided they don’t get to have a say....

[Loon-A-Tic]

There is that world class ALPA representation we keep hearing about. F÷=% your junior members as long as CB's buddies can catch a fat sack on the way out the door.
But dont worry boys, you couldnt be trusted to participate in the decision making this time.

I'm sure I will regret asking, but how exactly did the junior Jazz pilots get F÷=%ed as you say?

- 123 active Sky pilots coming over offset by 104 Jazz recalls May 1
- slightly enhanced flow which benefits juniors
- Captain downgrade protection
- If additional Sky pilots are required this summer out of seniority, then 1 for 1 recalls and upgrades for current Jazz pilots
- otherwise all Jazz pilots recalled before a Sky pilot. Bringing on the 175s also will mean an earlier recall for current Jazz versus if the aircraft didn't come.

Doesn't look like they got F÷=%ed to me.

Why don’t we ask those junior pilots if they would rather have a marginally faster recall or 280 pilots popped in front of them for literally EVER. 280 pilots in front of you for seat progression, basing, equipment, bidding, vacation, flow through to AC.
And when they finally get to AC 3 years later than they otherwise would to begin their 4 years of slave wages guess what? Those same 280 pilots are in front them for seat progression, bidding, vacation, basing, equipment, ect.
In this industry it pays to think long term, so I say again why don’t we ask those junior pilots what they want, oh wait, the Jazz MEC decided they don’t get to have a say....

You have one critical "flaw" in your rhetoric, I highly doubt all 280 pilots are planning to move on to AC, TILT

[Sharklasers]

I'm sure I will regret asking, but how exactly did the junior Jazz pilots get F÷=%ed as you say?

- 123 active Sky pilots coming over offset by 104 Jazz recalls May 1
- slightly enhanced flow which benefits juniors
- Captain downgrade protection
- If additional Sky pilots are required this summer out of seniority, then 1 for 1 recalls and upgrades for current Jazz pilots
- otherwise all Jazz pilots recalled before a Sky pilot. Bringing on the 175s also will mean an earlier recall for current Jazz versus if the aircraft didn't come.

Doesn't look like they got F÷=%ed to me.

Why don’t we ask those junior pilots if they would rather have a marginally faster recall or 280 pilots popped in front of them for literally EVER. 280 pilots in front of you for seat progression, basing, equipment, bidding, vacation, flow through to AC.
And when they finally get to AC 3 years later than they otherwise would to begin their 4 years of slave wages guess what? Those same 280 pilots are in front them for seat progression, bidding, vacation, basing, equipment, ect.
In this industry it pays to think long term, so I say again why don’t we ask those junior pilots what they want, oh wait, the Jazz MEC decided they don’t get to have a say....

You have one critical "flaw" in your rhetoric, I highly doubt all 280 pilots are planning to move on to AC, TILT

So they can stick around and sit in front of all the junior Jazz pilots who also choose not to flow and do the same damage. What’s your point?

Some said earlier congrats sky pilots, I think we should say congrats to the real winners of the deal which are the senior Jazz pilots. The same pilots who voted for lower wages and worse working conditions and voted away DBs for those who came after them while leaving their pay and retirements intact. Enjoy those giant golden handshakes boys, you earned them.

[throwaway123]

I hope the Sky pilots realize how lucky they are. And if i hear one negative comment outta of them about Jazz i swear ......
You got handed a golden ticket.I flew with guys who couldn't wait to leave Jazz for "big Jets" like at Transat...
I ask what are those guys doing now??? sitting on there buts WISHing they could still be at Jazz.

Be gracious, be grateful and leave the attitudes at the door

I don't regret leaving Jazz for AC. I am part of the 600 layoffs, but at the end of the day I have an AC seniority number. If the industry takes as long as I think it will to recover to the point where AC is hiring again, I'm happy where I am.

[47north]

There is that world class ALPA representation we keep hearing about. F÷=% your junior members as long as CB's buddies can catch a fat sack on the way out the door.
But dont worry boys, you couldnt be trusted to participate in the decision making this time.

I'm sure I will regret asking, but how exactly did the junior Jazz pilots get F÷=%ed as you say?

- 123 active Sky pilots coming over offset by 104 Jazz recalls May 1
- slightly enhanced flow which benefits juniors
- Captain downgrade protection
- If additional Sky pilots are required this summer out of seniority, then 1 for 1 recalls and upgrades for current Jazz pilots
- otherwise all Jazz pilots recalled before a Sky pilot. Bringing on the 175s also will mean an earlier recall for current Jazz versus if the aircraft didn't come.

Doesn't look like they got F÷=%ed to me.

Why don’t we ask those junior pilots if they would rather have a marginally faster recall or 280 pilots popped in front of them for literally EVER. 280 pilots in front of you for seat progression, basing, equipment, bidding, vacation, flow through to AC.
And when they finally get to AC 3 years later than they otherwise would to begin their 4 years of slave wages guess what? Those same 280 pilots are in front them for seat progression, bidding, vacation, basing, equipment, ect.
In this industry it pays to think long term, so I say again why don’t we ask those junior pilots what they want, oh wait, the Jazz MEC decided they don’t get to have a say....

It does pay to think long term, and this benefits junior Jazz pilots long term by securing the work at Jazz. The early retirement incentives will draw some more senior pilots out which will provide opportunities for upgrades, etc.

As someone that has gone through now 5 seniority integrations at this company, this looks to be a balanced agreement to me. If these similar provisions were in place when I was a laid off junior FO, it would have been less painful and I would not have been laid off for years as it was.

BTW there are many Jazz pilots that were glad this was dealt at the MEC level. Quite frankly the ALPA people that negotiated this have years of experience. They also wisely listened to outside counsel, which if they didn't could have led to CIRB challenges by the Sky pilots. The expectations of some pilots without this experience were unrealistic and a vote by the uniformed could have had real negative repercussions for the pilot group.

[TrilliumFlt]

Why don’t we ask those junior pilots if they would rather have a marginally faster recall or 280 pilots popped in front of them for literally EVER. 280 pilots in front of you for seat progression, basing, equipment, bidding, vacation, flow through to AC.
And when they finally get to AC 3 years later than they otherwise would to begin their 4 years of slave wages guess what? Those same 280 pilots are in front them for seat progression, bidding, vacation, basing, equipment, ect.
In this industry it pays to think long term, so I say again why don’t we ask those junior pilots what they want, oh wait, the Jazz MEC decided they don’t get to have a say....

You have one critical "flaw" in your rhetoric, I highly doubt all 280 pilots are planning to move on to AC, TILT

So they can stick around and sit in front of all the junior Jazz pilots who also choose not to flow and do the same damage. What’s your point?

Some said earlier congrats sky pilots, I think we should say congrats to the real winners of the deal which are the senior Jazz pilots. The same pilots who voted for lower wages and worse working conditions and voted away DBs for those who came after them while leaving their pay and retirements intact. Enjoy those giant golden handshakes boys, you earned them.

Man you are one toxic dude but thankfully it also appears your in the minority within the Jazz pilot community.

[throwaway123]

There is that world class ALPA representation we keep hearing about. F÷=% your junior members as long as CB's buddies can catch a fat sack on the way out the door.
But dont worry boys, you couldnt be trusted to participate in the decision making this time.

Seems like a pretty decent deal to me. Jazz pilots recalled first, bypass pay, 104 recalls, a huge ERP payout incentive... Not to mention Jazz becoming the sole AC Express operator so for those who don't have aspirations to go to AC, that is pretty solid job security.

[GATRKGA]

So what does this mean? If you're a 20 some year old First Officer at Jazz, upset by the integration of 280 some sky regional pilot's, understand that you'd probably not even be on a seniority list with 90% chance of going to AC as little as just 5 years ago.

This right here is what needs to change. Many of the Jazz pilots who are affected by this have earned their keep just as you old farts did. (After my 5 years in the high North I've come to realize many of you DIDN'T). I'm in my 30's, have a family, and I've tossed more bags/fuel drums/animal carcass than most of the old guys I've been paired with. At Jazz for ~5 years now and I know tons of fellow Jazz pilots who are affected by this who spent time all over Northern Canada and did the same.


'

Yea, I agree 100%. But then what is the solution? A career master seniority list you join the moment you get your CPL? And then your pay and seniority at every company is relative to that master seniority list? What do you say to the 30 year Transat Captain if he goes to AC on this potential acquisition? Tough luck you get a 320 left seat at best? He lived with his choices of flying at Transat, as do you for staying up north for longer than you had to.

And that's unfortunate because you're likely more senior in terms of experience, but are in the midst of a plethora of kids at your ranking who didn't have to do what you did to be in the same spot at a regional carrier. But you live with your choices right? It's not up to the MEC to undo your choices to not leave the north earlier. The hiring spree in the regionals began in 2014/2015, what were you doing up north while everyone else was moving ahead? I don't actually think your answer matters, but where you are on the Jazz list is as a result of your own choices. Of course, no one saw a pandemic coming, and just like chasing Cathy Wood's picks at the top, you are now caught in a massive pull back industry wide, and you're part of chasing the masses either holding through the pain, or moving onto other career endeavors because you can't afford to wait.

To those that think Jazz juniors got screwed, I think this is a pretty balanced deal too.

- Junior guys on lay off get preferential chance to go to AC once those doors open (which will open sooner than later despite all the bs on here)
- 104 recalls which means you're now up to 745 guys? That's a bonus
- The 124 and below SKY guys don't get recalled before you do, how many recalls is that before Sky pilot's? 700? That's a lot of guys recalled before them, if anything, it's more the SKY junior pilot's that got the shit end of the stick, BUT at the price of what? The price of getting a job to come back to AND CEWS until such time, as opposed to no job had Sky just shut down come April - so I'm sure they're grateful for that.
- 1 for 1 upgrades/recalls as someone said earlier, if the 175 has to fly (which by the sounds of it, it will), so I actually think the recalls will be a lot faster
- Senior guys getting the option to leave faster with a payout, which only means the list moves faster for all you juniors worried about how long it will be until your recall/upgrades/ac flow is. How many seniors do you think are doing the math as we speak to take that 400k and pay down the mortgage, or invest it, and then go over to a Flair DEC gig, or Overseas CRJ/Q400 gig and still get paid for the next 10 years for their boat loads of experience? I'm sure more are mulling it over than you think - which is good for the juniors movement.
- Lay off protection for everyone onboard until Sept 2022, which pretty much is when the industry will have already recalled the more junior crews, so likely weather a huge storm for anyone currently active on both sides.

As much as not everyone comes out happy with any outcome, I think the Jazz and Sky MEC did a decent job.

This will weather eventually, patience is the name of the game which is easier said than done, when you're no longer eating filet mignon on Sunday nights. Hang in there.

[the-minister31]

Yea, I agree 100%. But then what is the solution? A career master seniority list you join the moment you get your CPL? And then your pay and seniority at every company is relative to that master seniority list? What do you say to the 30 year Transat Captain if he goes to AC on this potential acquisition? Tough luck you get a 320 left seat at best? He lived with his choices of flying at Transat, as do you for staying up north for longer than you had to.

And that's unfortunate because you're likely more senior in terms of experience, but are in the midst of a plethora of kids at your ranking who didn't have to do what you did to be in the same spot at a regional carrier. But you live with your choices right? It's not up to the MEC to undo your choices to not leave the north earlier. The hiring spree in the regionals began in 2014/2015, what were you doing up north while everyone else was moving ahead? I don't actually think your answer matters, but where you are on the Jazz list is as a result of your own choices. Of course, no one saw a pandemic coming, and just like chasing Cathy Wood's picks at the top, you are now caught in a massive pull back industry wide, and you're part of chasing the masses either holding through the pain, or moving onto other career endeavors because you can't afford to wait.

To those that think Jazz juniors got screwed, I think this is a pretty balanced deal too.

- Junior guys on lay off get preferential chance to go to AC once those doors open (which will open sooner than later despite all the bs on here)
- 104 recalls which means you're now up to 745 guys? That's a bonus
- The 124 and below SKY guys don't get recalled before you do, how many recalls is that before Sky pilot's? 700? That's a lot of guys recalled before them, if anything, it's more the SKY junior pilot's that got the shit end of the stick, BUT at the price of what? The price of getting a job to come back to AND CEWS until such time, as opposed to no job had Sky just shut down come April - so I'm sure they're grateful for that.
- 1 for 1 upgrades/recalls as someone said earlier, if the 175 has to fly (which by the sounds of it, it will), so I actually think the recalls will be a lot faster
- Senior guys getting the option to leave faster with a payout, which only means the list moves faster for all you juniors worried about how long it will be until your recall/upgrades/ac flow is. How many seniors do you think are doing the math as we speak to take that 400k and pay down the mortgage, or invest it, and then go over to a Flair DEC gig, or Overseas CRJ/Q400 gig and still get paid for the next 10 years for their boat loads of experience? I'm sure more are mulling it over than you think - which is good for the juniors movement.
- Lay off protection for everyone onboard until Sept 2022, which pretty much is when the industry will have already recalled the more junior crews, so likely weather a huge storm for anyone currently active on both sides.

As much as not everyone comes out happy with any outcome, I think the Jazz and Sky MEC did a decent job.

This will weather eventually, patience is the name of the game which is easier said than done, when you're no longer eating filet mignon on Sunday nights. Hang in there.

As a Sky guy, I agree with this 100%. Good balanced deal where everyone gets a piece of the pie. I'm glad it works out in the end.

[haironfire]

Also a Sky guy, after going through this on numerous occasions (more than I would like to admit or wish to remember), this is a pretty balanced equation.

Remember, in our industry pilots are just a bolt in the Saturn V. We are part of the business. We are not the only part in the business.

They just move us around like pawns in the big chess game.

There are winners, and losers. Some win bigger than the other winners, and vice versa.

It is just big business, and we should not fight against each other. We do not choose this.

[a2btrail]

Well said haironfire.

I'd like to extend a welcome to you and your colleagues both active and inactive to the team.

I am a laid off Jr. Jazz pilot of 2+ years of seniority. I haven't flown in just under year but looking forward to getting back online at some point in the future. I am happy with the results of the ratification.

It will be interesting to see if any Sr. pilots take the SSP.

Cheers,