kit aircraft building business?
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- aviator_mech
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:48 pm
kit aircraft building business?
Hello fellow builders, I have a few questions on getting into the business ... but before I am going introduce myself a little... i have been working on aircraft since i was 16.... working at the Toronto aerospace museum as a volunteer till the age of 20 restoring a/c... at the age of 18 i attended college, and graduated when i was 20 with honors, I've been working in the M2 category field as an aircraft mechanic and now i am licensed with my M2 cat license with no endorsements... unfortunately I've been laid off for the past couple months and there is no work here in Quebec.... there seems to be work in Ontario but i don't plan on ever returning to Ontario, if i were to get back into the field it would either be in Quebec or bc... but an idea came to me
so here's where i wanted to get to... with my experience from the museum, school and being in the field and also building custom cars that i do on the side as a hobby of mine... i feel quite confident that i could build quality aircraft, that being said i also have a friend who used to work with me and is an excellent structural mechanic and is now laid off as well... i have a shop at my parents place that is in the country and never gets used, that would easily have the space to build at least one aircraft the size maximum a Cessna 180.... now unfortunately none of us have the signing authority yet because we have both worked in the M2 cat, but M1 falls under M2 and all we would need to do is get an inspector from tc to inspect our jobs and once licensed for RII's...... if there are people out there who do this kind of work, i am really interested in getting into the business of building aircraft for customers who purchased kits and are looking for builders
so here's where i wanted to get to... with my experience from the museum, school and being in the field and also building custom cars that i do on the side as a hobby of mine... i feel quite confident that i could build quality aircraft, that being said i also have a friend who used to work with me and is an excellent structural mechanic and is now laid off as well... i have a shop at my parents place that is in the country and never gets used, that would easily have the space to build at least one aircraft the size maximum a Cessna 180.... now unfortunately none of us have the signing authority yet because we have both worked in the M2 cat, but M1 falls under M2 and all we would need to do is get an inspector from tc to inspect our jobs and once licensed for RII's...... if there are people out there who do this kind of work, i am really interested in getting into the business of building aircraft for customers who purchased kits and are looking for builders
- kevinsky18
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Re: kit aircraft building business?
I looked at doing this years ago.
I don't think that there's any money in it. Especially in the middle of a recession when planes are loosing value.
When times were really good it worked out to about $10/hr you "might" get for the time you put into building a kit plane.
Perhaps there's more of a market for rebuilding certified planes but I wouldn't know. If you can partner with a licensed mechanic to sign off on certified rebuilds that might be a more profitable route.
I know of a Beaver project that needs a rebuild. PM and I'll forward the details I have.
I don't think that there's any money in it. Especially in the middle of a recession when planes are loosing value.
When times were really good it worked out to about $10/hr you "might" get for the time you put into building a kit plane.
Perhaps there's more of a market for rebuilding certified planes but I wouldn't know. If you can partner with a licensed mechanic to sign off on certified rebuilds that might be a more profitable route.
I know of a Beaver project that needs a rebuild. PM and I'll forward the details I have.
- aviator_mech
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- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:48 pm
Re: kit aircraft building business?
yeah kits or liscenced aircraft, rebuilds or builds, it can all be done! yup i might have a buddy who might be interested who has about 15 years experience and is liscenced M1 and M2, and a structures mech... i think with a team of 3 we would could turn airplanes around in pretty good time... i will pm you and send me the details i'm definitely curious
- aviator_mech
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Re: kit aircraft building business?
aviator_mech wrote:yeah kits or certified aircraft, rebuilds or builds, it can all be done! yup i might have a buddy who might be interested who has about 15 years experience and is liscenced M1 and M2, and a structures mech... i think with a team of 3 we could turn airplanes around in pretty good time... i will pm you and send me the details i'm definitely curious
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Re: kit aircraft building business?
I would think that the market for building kits for owners that will pay, is pretty small. I know that our RAA meetings I have to make sure that there are no buttons on the upholstery when the hat goes around for a donation of any sort. Also the rules have changed and owners do have to have a significant hands on contribution to the project. This may narrow down the potential market because the owners will have to travel to your shop to do this.
Jim
Jim
- aviator_mech
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Re: kit aircraft building business?
it doesn't matter though, i wouldn't restrict myself to only building small kit aircraft... hell if a guy wants a p51 built... we would have the space.... its about a 1200 square foot shop.... i won't restrict myself to only tiny little kits.... if it will fit in the shop then we'll built it.... mods, rebuilds etc.... like a tiny one aircraft a.m.o just to start.... we've got an 80 gal compressor... i have all the pneumatics in that shop, i've built a few race cars in it.... would need to find a few used sheet metal tooling: cornices breaks, band saw, already have a good grinder, ventilation's already set up and calibrated tools... we're super close to 2 airports, so if anything, they can be flat bedded over for power runs and final wing assemblies, paint etc... i just need to do the research of the legalities behind this, with tc, insurance, liscence for business etc
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Re: kit aircraft building business?
The issue with building 'kit' planes/amateur built as a business venture, is that Cars 549.01 (a)iii) states :
show that the major portion of the aircraft will be constructed from raw material and assembled on a non-commercial, non-production basis for educational or recreational purposes;
now you can build a kit plane, and make money, but as soon as you start building 'more' kit planes, t.c. will probably start to harrass you about building kit planes on a commercial basis.
The other thing about rebuilding 'certified' aircraft, is that Cars 571.04 about specialized maintenance, force you to have an AMO, or a friendly AMO willing to sign out your work, for virtually everything that is considered specialized. (schedule II).
From what I understand about Projects that AMO's work on, most of them don't actually 'make' money on the projects, they more 'stop or slow the bleeding of money' during the slow times at work. as in they pay for part of the staff, the parts for the aircraft, and maybe a little bit of the overhead.
show that the major portion of the aircraft will be constructed from raw material and assembled on a non-commercial, non-production basis for educational or recreational purposes;
now you can build a kit plane, and make money, but as soon as you start building 'more' kit planes, t.c. will probably start to harrass you about building kit planes on a commercial basis.
The other thing about rebuilding 'certified' aircraft, is that Cars 571.04 about specialized maintenance, force you to have an AMO, or a friendly AMO willing to sign out your work, for virtually everything that is considered specialized. (schedule II).
From what I understand about Projects that AMO's work on, most of them don't actually 'make' money on the projects, they more 'stop or slow the bleeding of money' during the slow times at work. as in they pay for part of the staff, the parts for the aircraft, and maybe a little bit of the overhead.
- aviator_mech
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:48 pm
Re: kit aircraft building business?
well exactly! everything would have to be registered, i would obviously be getting audited by tc... we would have to be on top of calibration dates of any tooling, product shelf life dates, everything would have to be labeled.... parts would have to be inventoried... or just ordered for the specific job, quarantined parts cage, serviceable parts cage, and labeled shelves for aircraft zones ... i could charge an hourly tech wage, and customers could either supply consumables, supplies, parts, that could make things a little easier...
Re: kit aircraft building business?
I know of a guy who used build aircraft for people, but he would build it "for himself" than sell it to the customer. He did this and built a nice Harmon Rocket, tailored to a guy's specs only to have the guy back out. That was it for his venture.
Re: kit aircraft building business?
In Canada it is entirely legal for the owner of a kit to subcontract the entire build to a third party. The owner must be present at each MD-RA inspection but besides this he does not have to do anything except maintain control of the flow of work and sign the cheques.
Can you make a living doing this? if you can you would be one of the few to accomplish this feat.
Gary Wolf
RAA Canada
Can you make a living doing this? if you can you would be one of the few to accomplish this feat.
Gary Wolf
RAA Canada
- Cat Driver
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Re: kit aircraft building business?
I have a Cub project in my garage that is about half finished.
i have about fifty thousand dollars in parts at this time.
So lets say I have it finished, how much do you think I could sell it for?
i have about fifty thousand dollars in parts at this time.
So lets say I have it finished, how much do you think I could sell it for?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Re: kit aircraft building business?
I'm sure some fool would give you $150000 for your plane because it is a Cub.
PS: Did you ever sell your Mong?
PS: Did you ever sell your Mong?
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
- Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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Re: kit aircraft building business?
Yes I did after I removed all the firewall forward stuff and the radio and transponder.PS: Did you ever sell your Mong?
Now all I have to do is sell the Cri Cri and I will be happy.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: kit aircraft building business?
There is no money in building kitplanes for re-sale. For a while there were people assembling RV's and selling them but now you can pick up RV's flying for less than the cost of building.
There is a demand for people who are good at doing fabric re-covering. Anyone that is good at it is allways busy.
There is a demand for people who are good at doing fabric re-covering. Anyone that is good at it is allways busy.