Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
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Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
Have you ever experienced aerobatic flight, if so what was your experience like and what made it good or bad? Did you have difficulty locating either a qualified aircraft or instructor and were you required to travel very far to do so?
I have recently accepted the position of President of the BC Aerobatic Club with a goal of making safe and quality aerobatic flight accessible to more pilots. I'd like the feedback of any pilots out there who have experience or are looking for a means to become inverted.
I have recently accepted the position of President of the BC Aerobatic Club with a goal of making safe and quality aerobatic flight accessible to more pilots. I'd like the feedback of any pilots out there who have experience or are looking for a means to become inverted.
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
I received my first aerobatic flights long before I started my pilot's license... A side effect of growing up at a grassroots airport. So I already knew what most of the simple manoeuvers felt like even before I started my basic flight training. I knew I wanted to be flying upside down once I was set free.
My first aerobatic *lessons* were from the same instructor who taught me for my Private license... Once the flight test was done, we did 5 hours of aerobatics while I studied and then wrote my written test. We were only in a 150 Aerobat, but that was enough to teach the basics (loop, roll, snap) and then how to put those together to make other things (cuban, reverse cuban, etc). Also good for teaching energy management, as the Aerobat has the kind of blistering vertical penetration that nobody ever praises...
What made it great was developing a good friendship with my instructor... I have no complaints about any of it. Sure, it would have been more fun in an airplane with more power or performance, but the 150 was a lot of fun, and my instructor made it fun too. I had no trouble locating my instructor, he was at the school where I learned to fly. I think that convenience drew in a few people at the flying school, a number of fellow students did aerobatic checkouts around the same time I did.
I can't fault what I was taught. The skills have been 100% transferable to first a Citabria, and finally to a few different RV's. I don't have a lot of interest in doing "Super Dave" style aerobatics, but mostly because I know it requires dedication beyond my available time commitment, and hardware above my budget.
My first aerobatic *lessons* were from the same instructor who taught me for my Private license... Once the flight test was done, we did 5 hours of aerobatics while I studied and then wrote my written test. We were only in a 150 Aerobat, but that was enough to teach the basics (loop, roll, snap) and then how to put those together to make other things (cuban, reverse cuban, etc). Also good for teaching energy management, as the Aerobat has the kind of blistering vertical penetration that nobody ever praises...
What made it great was developing a good friendship with my instructor... I have no complaints about any of it. Sure, it would have been more fun in an airplane with more power or performance, but the 150 was a lot of fun, and my instructor made it fun too. I had no trouble locating my instructor, he was at the school where I learned to fly. I think that convenience drew in a few people at the flying school, a number of fellow students did aerobatic checkouts around the same time I did.
I can't fault what I was taught. The skills have been 100% transferable to first a Citabria, and finally to a few different RV's. I don't have a lot of interest in doing "Super Dave" style aerobatics, but mostly because I know it requires dedication beyond my available time commitment, and hardware above my budget.
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
I did 6 hours of aerobatic traing in September, 2014. My main reason was to learn better control of an aeroplane. Based in Calgary, my only choices for the training were the BC coast and Manitoba. While I chose Manitoba because I had access to a rental float plane, the total costs for the aerobatic training were much lower there than in the lower mainland.
I thoroughly enjoyed my training: loop, roll, barrel roll and hammerheads were covered. Also a whip stall, though I don't believe that was part of the syllabus We tried linking maneuvers together but that was beyond my skill level. The first time I would try a maneuver my stomach would object, however, every time after that I was fine, until we would try another "new" maneuver.
I will do more in the future, it will not be in the BC lower mainland due to cost. However, it there was a school in the Okanagan or Vancouver Island with similar costs to Manitoba they would certainly be considered.
My one regret is I did not ask for a formal demonstration of a wingover, one of the few maneuvers legal in the 150
HTH
LF
I thoroughly enjoyed my training: loop, roll, barrel roll and hammerheads were covered. Also a whip stall, though I don't believe that was part of the syllabus We tried linking maneuvers together but that was beyond my skill level. The first time I would try a maneuver my stomach would object, however, every time after that I was fine, until we would try another "new" maneuver.
I will do more in the future, it will not be in the BC lower mainland due to cost. However, it there was a school in the Okanagan or Vancouver Island with similar costs to Manitoba they would certainly be considered.
My one regret is I did not ask for a formal demonstration of a wingover, one of the few maneuvers legal in the 150
HTH
LF
Women and planes have alot in common
Both are expensive, loud, and noisy.
However, when handled properly both respond well and provide great pleasure
Both are expensive, loud, and noisy.
However, when handled properly both respond well and provide great pleasure
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
Not "just" a 150 Aerobat They do great snaps and you can learn a lot about energy management, you are correct, from a low powered plane. Glad you found some diversity in aircraft type to fly. Where were you able to do training on the 150A?AirFrame wrote: We were only in a 150 Aerobat, but that was enough to teach the basics (loop, roll, snap) and then how to put those together to make other things (cuban, reverse cuban, etc). Also good for teaching energy management, as the Aerobat has the kind of blistering vertical penetration that nobody ever praises...
The skills have been 100% transferable to first a Citabria, and finally to a few different RV's.)
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
Canada is a pretty big place and I can list on one hand the places I know where it's legal to obtain aerobatic instruction. If you really want to delve into the subject, find a good pilot that has at least intermediate competition experience and/or air show experience.
Unfortunately, TC has a stranglehold on aerobatic training with regards to a FTU OC. The instructors you will find at the FTU are often 300 hour guys and gals that decided to get an aerobatic instructor rating. I had one such experience in BC with a low time aerobatic instructor, and in my opinion, the requirements should be more in depth to hold the rating, or TC needs to allow experienced air show and acro pilots to teach those who wish to learn, unrestricted. What you get is a system of self taught folks and aerobatic instructors that really have very little "real world" acro time instead of a mentoring atmosphere where people are free to learn from the old hands.
Unfortunately, TC has a stranglehold on aerobatic training with regards to a FTU OC. The instructors you will find at the FTU are often 300 hour guys and gals that decided to get an aerobatic instructor rating. I had one such experience in BC with a low time aerobatic instructor, and in my opinion, the requirements should be more in depth to hold the rating, or TC needs to allow experienced air show and acro pilots to teach those who wish to learn, unrestricted. What you get is a system of self taught folks and aerobatic instructors that really have very little "real world" acro time instead of a mentoring atmosphere where people are free to learn from the old hands.
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
It was at Montair when they were at Boundary Bay in the big hangar. The 150A was GMAX.jodirueger wrote:Not "just" a 150 Aerobat They do great snaps and you can learn a lot about energy management, you are correct, from a low powered plane. Glad you found some diversity in aircraft type to fly. Where were you able to do training on the 150A?
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
I think that plane is with another flight school now but doesn't see aerobatics anymore.AirFrame wrote: It was at Montair when they were at Boundary Bay in the big hangar. The 150A was GMAX.
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
Mixed bag for me, multiple instructors mostly airshow types US and Canada. I had to look hard to find real acro training in Canada and drove 5 hours each way for weekend training.
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
cgzro wrote:Mixed bag for me, multiple instructors mostly airshow types US and Canada. I had to look hard to find real acro training in Canada and drove 5 hours each way for weekend training.
You seem very dedicated. Did you pursue any show or competition flying yourself?
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
My first aerobatic training was done in Wyoming in 1959 at a school that taught crop dusting, the course started with aerobatics in a Luscombe.
The instructors were awesome and grave me a great start in learning high command control.
The instructors were awesome and grave me a great start in learning high command control.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
I did comptition for about 9 years, intermediate (quite well at one point) and a lot of advanced practice but never felt good enough at advanced to compete at that level. Was never very interested in airshows because frankly its so freaking expensive unless you do it full time. I hope to get back to competition at some point but i need a month of daily practice to be competitive in the north eastern us and work makes that impossible at the moment.dedicated
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
Most of the pilots I talk with outside of the aerobatic community aren't interested in acro at all unfortunately. It's really a shame it's not more integrated into aviation and training in Canada.
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
I always felt it was like a person who likes water sports not knowing how to swim.
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
People living on a flat earth think and live in two dimensions most of the time. Nobody thinks to use the third axis for anything.
While I know how to make level turns (I do them in the circuit all the time), I have a hard time making them when i'm out flying around. Immelmans, split-S's, wingovers, etc. are all much more fun. Why not use the airspace?
While I know how to make level turns (I do them in the circuit all the time), I have a hard time making them when i'm out flying around. Immelmans, split-S's, wingovers, etc. are all much more fun. Why not use the airspace?
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
Ha, I cant even get pilots in my neck of the woods interested in precision landing or some formation flying.looproll wrote:Most of the pilots I talk with outside of the aerobatic community aren't interested in acro at all unfortunately. It's really a shame it's not more integrated into aviation and training in Canada.
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
And yet as kids I doubt very few dreamed about safely taking 200 people to Vancouver and back every day wearing a tie.
My school note book margins were full of little badly drawn fighters bristling with guns shooting at each other across whatever homework was in the middle.
My school note book margins were full of little badly drawn fighters bristling with guns shooting at each other across whatever homework was in the middle.
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
Most of my CPL study books have those too. I think my favorite was a P-40 which strafed and bombed a lot of double track error calculations and weight and flight plan forms.cgzro wrote:
My school note book margins were full of little badly drawn fighters bristling with guns shooting at each other across whatever homework was in the middle.
I have aquired a some what sporadic and ad hoc aerobatic training, most of it in Citabria and Decathlons, though I did get to try some in that Musketeer that was acro capable (Sundowner?) It does nice aileron rolls. Mostly I try to get it when I can, but that's hard to come by. I was working on getting a Pitts check out a little while ago, but circumstances changed and that didn't happen. I think I got maybe a dozen hours or so of solid practice, and maybe double that of less than dedicated.
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
You guys should come to the Lower Mainland, we're starting to get some good momentum here and I have a wonderful group of pilots who would eat up that kind of training. I am really happy to be getting the feedback you guys are providing, thank you. Suggestions, opinions, and feedback as to the aircraft you used for training is also very helpful.FenderManDan wrote:Ha, I cant even get pilots in my neck of the woods interested in precision landing or some formation flying.looproll wrote:Most of the pilots I talk with outside of the aerobatic community aren't interested in acro at all unfortunately. It's really a shame it's not more integrated into aviation and training in Canada.
Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
When I was growing up, all of the commercial pilots I knew seemed like nothing more than glorified bus drivers... I didn't know that there was anything else for a commercial pilot. Sure, they got paid buckets of cash, but they spent most of their day sitting still doing nothing. I knew I wanted to fly, but I wanted *fun* flying, not an airborne desk job.cgzro wrote:And yet as kids I doubt very few dreamed about safely taking 200 people to Vancouver and back every day wearing a tie.
That perception definitely discouraged me from pursuing it as a career... It was only later that I clued in that bush flying, water bombing, crop dusting, etc. could all be fun careers too, for the right person.
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Re: Availability of Quality Aerobatic Training
I always find this odd, but very common viewpoint on aviation. Even with the group of guys I did my CPL with were much of the same mindset. Part of my aspirations have always had a different bent though and maybe has been a driver in this regard, since i've always had an. Interest in old airplanes and devour any material related to them. Thus, a different career path than that I imagined as a younger self, but with some of the goals attained. The aerobatic world has always been integral to this, since the world in which little planes are busy is very interconnected, and though related, often seems alien to the big airplane world, or at least those heavily invested in that direction.AirFrame wrote:When I was growing up, all of the commercial pilots I knew seemed like nothing more than glorified bus drivers... I didn't know that there was anything else for a commercial pilot. Sure, they got paid buckets of cash, but they spent most of their day sitting still doing nothing. I knew I wanted to fly, but I wanted *fun* flying, not an airborne desk job.cgzro wrote:And yet as kids I doubt very few dreamed about safely taking 200 people to Vancouver and back every day wearing a tie.
That perception definitely discouraged me from pursuing it as a career... It was only later that I clued in that bush flying, water bombing, crop dusting, etc. could all be fun careers too, for the right person.
I'm beyond happy to be able to make the claim of having PIC time in things that were made in the 40's.
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!