Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

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Snow Angel
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Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by Snow Angel »

I'm going for bush flying. I've got my PPL and 85 hours. Can someone give me few ideas of how to build my hours? Also I'm planning on going for CL. Also would you recommend taking it slow as I'm able to afford it or take a loan and get it done? I've been told bush pilots can get hired with less hours if the majority of their hours are in the north, so I'm thinking of moving back up north before I take my CL. I also think it would look better to have taken my CL in the north. Know of any good schools up north? What way do you recommend for me? Any advice is welcome. Thanks.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by mattedfred »

if you are in a hurry to start working as a pilot then only you can decide to pursue a loan to pay for your CPL

if you aren't in a hurry then pay as you go

if you want to fly in the bush for the rest of your career then try and complete as much of your training on types and in environments that you will see during a career in the bush

i.e. do some of your training on floats, skis, etc

build cross country time by flying to airports where northern operators are based and pay the chief pilot a visit to find out what he/she is currently looking for in a new hire
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Snow Angel
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by Snow Angel »

Thanks for the advice. What flight schools would you recommend looking into in northern BC or AB for float rating, bush training, and CPL?
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by ScudRunner »

Here's an Idea and how I would have done it if I could go back. Might not be practical if you get your CPL over this winter but for others that are reading

Most guys get there licence then go north looking for work. Most end up on the Ramp for a period of time letting there skills lapse then eventually get on flying.

You have your PPL now so try to land a seasonal job on the Dock/Ramp/Office somewhere work the summer getting to know the company the pilots and when aloud to or while off work bum a lift swamping when you can. Work hard help out and learn all you can. You might even get some stick time Im sure the pilots would be happy to let you drive for a bit on empty legs or freight trips.

When the snow starts flying head south and live at the airport flying every chance you can finish your CPL keep your old boss updated on your progress. If you where working for a 206 VFR operator forget the IFR or the Multi, if its a float operation get your Float out on the West Coast during the winter.

Spring time comes around, they know you and you know there operations. And hopefully your off flying.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by farmerjoe »

not 2 be negative, but your plan is not going to go well. ya, you can go ramp, make poverty income and liv in isolation. most places will boast building up time on the ramp as the incentive, leading to a flight position. but you must have have your commercial multi IFR first. any paying job, ur gonna need ur commercial, any night vfr ur gonna need ur IFR, any 2 crew jobs ur gonna need ur multi. u might luck out and get on a 206 or cherokee 6, but theres probaly a few hundred guys out there with 250 hours and multi IFR's applying too. Ramping jobs are becoming competive as were in a mass slowdown in the industry, but flight schools are still turning many graduates.

my advice, get a student loan, get a ramp job at a flight school, staff discounts on planes. get all ur licenses, then go north, and ramp ur may up into the flightline. this is a vicious industry to penetrate, good luck
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by Snow Angel »

Thanks for the advise. I have a few questions...

I may not be able to move north until summer, and I plan to take my CPL then. I'm in Kelowna now, so should I take my float rating and/or bush course now or in the spring while I'm here? I've heard Air Hart has a good program, or do you recommend waiting until I have my CPL? What about IFR? When should I take that? Do you recommend any flight schools up north, say in the Ft. St. John/Dawson Creek area? I have a good paying full time job now, but I'm going to check if Air Hart hires any dock hands or desk workers and see if I can land a part time job just to start breaking in and getting as much experience as possible. I also thought maybe there's a staff discount to get some float time. Does this sound like a good move?

I appreciate your advise.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by just curious »

You could take your float rating now at Air Hart. Keep your job, and use the money for your commercial IFR. Look for a school such as Harv's for your commercial where you could go in and do your course in a concentrated form, retaining your job for after. Bear in mind that schools that offer private/commercial training are usually blocking the days for air cadet training from the first week of July to the middle of August so start earlier.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by Snow Angel »

Good to know. Thanks. Does anyone recommend a flight school in northern BC/Alberta to take CPL at?
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by square »

farmerjoe wrote:most places will boast building up time on the ramp as the incentive, leading to a flight position. but you must have have your commercial multi IFR first.
No, you don't. There is no "licence" required to work on the ground. Lots of places hire just about anyone to work the ground, whether they have a pilot's licence or not doesn't really matter. But those who ARE pilots eventually get jobs on the flight line. So .'s right, you should start working in the industry right away, but I'd do it even more simply. Just move to some town that has both a flight training unit AND an air taxi or maybe commuter operation and do both at the same time. That way, when you finish your training in a year or so, you'll have put in the time to the company. You could go straight from your CPL flight test to the left seat of a 206 or 185, or the right seat of a navajo or king air. And even if the place you're ramping at won't give you a spot on the flight line (which I think is a little unlikely,) you'll be able to make friends with some higher time pilots that can really help you out later. I see Air Mikisew is hiring ground staff right now and CYMM has an FTU too.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by Snow Angel »

Thanks for the positive advise. There's alot of negative out there, as I hear it is a hard line of work to break into. I looked up Air Mikisew in Ft. McMurray and was pretty stoked about what I found! Sounds like just what I'm looking for. I've always been a hard worker and strive to be good at what I do. I don't mind working from the bottom up. Working the ground or docks to me seems like a really great way to learn from others and get contacts for the future while working on CPL and ratings. It makes sense as well that, once working the ground/docks and finishing CPL/ratings, your boss would know you well enough to be confident in hiring you possibley before others even if they had higher hours just because he knows your work ethic. I'm confidently determined and committed to break in. I appreciate getting advice from those of you in the know as I'm still very much a newb to all this. Any other tips are welcome.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by Snow Angel »

Just realized I keep spelling advice wrong... :oops: lol. Sorry guys. I knew it looked weird.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by North Shore »

You've probably figured it out already, but if you go the "work on the ground while you are getting your licenses" route, it's one long job interview - make too many puppies, or screw up in other ways too many times, and you're done..and they won't tell you, because you'll be willing to work for the wages that they can afford to pay because of the carrot of the aeroplane..
Here's a good lead:viewtopic.php?f=7&t=48626 it's old tho...viewtopic.php?f=7&t=48626
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by brokenwing »

one other thing to remember is, you can do your cpl time buildinng all on floats. The advantage you'll have with 50+ hrs is the ability to fly live cargo right away, instead of just getting the odd overload trip.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by FlowPack »

This is not advice, just how it happened for me, for what it's worth -

I lived in a large city while getting my licenses. After I finished my PPL, I got a job ramping for a 703 operator while I finished training. Got to know the folks there and worked as hard and as competently as I could. Built my time and lucky for me, I got a right seat in a turbine shortly after finishing the CPL. This was, however, during the 'boom' that has since somewhat dwindled to a relative 'bang'.
Hard work will get you noticed, competence will get you hired.

Good luck
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by Snow Angel »

Thanks. I would like to do some of my CPL on floats as well as some time on skis. I agree it would be beneficial later on. Anyone know anywhere to get good training on skis? Also, I'm hoping to get a ramp job while I'm doing my CPL. I'd like to keep my current job at least at first as it pays well and has flexible hours, but really want some ground experience, so I'm hoping to find a Part-time, On Call, or Casual job at CYLW. Know anyone who's hiring? If I'm interested in bush operations, what ramp job would I benefit most from? I'm open to any advice you can give me.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by North Shore »

Ski training? Dunno if I've ever heard of that being bought. In my limited ski experience, I came back to my company after freeze-up, and they gave me the 3? hours of conversion training, and then I was on my own... with the self-generated words: "Don't fcuk it up by doing something stupid" revolving through my brain.
I suppose you might find someone willing to take your $ and train you, either in the north, or NW Ontario, but probably better to get a bunch of tailwheel time (if you can) as I think that would put you in a better position to transition to skis later.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by CPwebbs »

with regards to paying for you training.

If you can, get a loan - you'll save on training costs in the end, by flying more frequently all the procedures stay fresh in your head and you'll need less re-cap time in the air.

plus, its a huge cost and earning that money isn't easy. The people I trained with who were working to pay for it flew very infrequently - if fact, most of them are still working on the license to this date.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by Upsidedown_Again »

If you want to fly floats, then float hours = job. My advice is to do your commercial training at airhart if you are already in Kelowna. If you have at least 50 hours on floats (100 would be better) then it will be a HUGE help in getting your first job. And a hand full of floatplane operators call there each year looking for new pilots.
Ofcourse this is expensive and if you are looking into a wheel job then there are other alternatives.
Borrow the money. Some one else made the point about the training taking much longer if you can't concentrate on it full time. I have to agree.
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by lowaltituderecord »

I wonder what advantage one would have if they had a degree (BSc Science), AND a commercial IFR, for getting King Air or other jobs of that type?
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Re: Interested in Bush Flying...Need Advice.

Post by square »

Here's some advice.. don't put "Snow Angel" on your resume :)

I don't mean to be rude but seriously -- a major concern for hiring of crews is if they can hack it. Pilots are expected to lift, load & handle such items as 420 lb drums, 200 lb pumps, generators etc -- I've had to hand bomb a whole load of 200 lb cylinders into a 206 by myself. Don't come off as an angel and be prepared, it's more than flying and you're dealing with a lot of bush mentality.
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