AC Sueing Westjet

Blastor · Post by **Blastor** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:11 pm

If Westjet stooped that low they deserved to be sued and nailed to the cross. Westjet (Clide) has enough $$$$$ to pay anyways.

Bad for Westjet.............another Air Canada in disguised??

Brize · Post by **Brize** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:31 pm

How can ypu try to make AC look like the villan in this situation. You dispisethe the company, ok. Bias aside, it's clear that AC did nothing wrong here, and evidently corporate espionage was used by WJ. As far as the individual with the access goes, so what if he quit, got fired, laid off or retired. Every employer has the right to let someone go, just like you if you ran a business.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:41 pm

BRiZE wrote: How can ypu try to make AC look like the villan in this situation.

AC did nothing wrong here.

As far as the individual with the access goes, so what if he quit, got fired, laid off or retired.

Every employer has the right to let someone go, just like you if you ran a business.

Very few of us are making AC look "evil" we're just stating that it's sad that they would try to pull a stunt like this.. Shameful..

AC as I mentioned, avcanada doesn't have a 10 billion dollar business but even he knew how to put in "access" to guests, users, mods and himself.. They were stupid to say the least.

No one cares if he got canned or quit.

Yes, every person can fire whoever they want. But when we terminate someone we take their ID badge, close their account, escort them out of the building with their personal belongings.. AC should have terminated his access to the private webpage.. You don't see cops getting fired and allowed to keep guns or badges do you? If AC let him use their system when he wasn't supposed to it's their problem. If you put $100 bills on the street you think people will walk by and say "oh those aren't mine, better leave them".. LoL.. heck no..
"he need access to buy the tickets" exactly, he didn't need level 10 access just some gimp level 1 access..

This shows bad character of how AC is run, this reflects poorly on AC and shows why it isn't successful when any imbicile can login and do whatever they want on their mainframe..

Like I said, AC should be sued for being stupid...

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:56 pm

cyyz wrote:
Like I said, AC should be sued for being stupid...

Too funny...

A private AC website used for employees to book their travel plans also allows enough access to enable WestJet to develop it's expansion strategy?

What a laugh... sounds like AC is grasping at anything it can find.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:59 pm

Yup, our friend Uncle Milty has proved once again that he's not a villain, just a moron.

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:48 pm

Before claiming AC was incompetent in allowing this former employee access you should first, perhaps, learn something about how this all unfolded. Maybe he had been in a senior position and able to set up false accounts, maybe he bribbed someone still on the inside to up his security level, maybe he had enough knowledge of the system that he was able to thwart security measures, etc.

The only thing known here is that WJ is accused of corporate espionage and theft of data. Maybe they're guilty, maybe they aren't. But one thing is for sure, even if AC was lax in their security it does not reduce the culpability of WJ if they were spying. The fact I leave home without locking my doors and windows does not make it OK for some punk to rob me. If WJ is guilty, the executives involved are no different than your local street punk criminals, just a bit more sophisticated, and I hope they also get charged criminally.

Sorry WJ fans, but maybe some of the shine is coming off.

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:54 pm

Obviously a standard severence package which no doubt contains very specific legal usage procedures. Give em enough rope and eventually they will hang themselves. And I'm not talking about ACA either! I'd say that this was pure genius by the ACA folks if intentional, but I doubt that even they think that far ahead. My money is on ACA on this one, however this will most likely never see the light of day again.

gonnabeapilot · Post by **gonnabeapilot** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:11 am

To settle one of the issues first, "maybe he bribbed someone still on the inside to up his security level". There would be no need to do any such thing. The Air Canada employee travel site allows employees (active and on-leave) to log in using their employee number and a PIN to book travel using their passes. Since these passes are for stand-by travel, the website allows an employee to view the loads for a flight they are trying to travel on; seats sold, seats remaining and cons listed (people already registered as traveling stand-by). It would be quite simple for Westjet to use this information to get a leg up. "Oh, the 1300 departure to YYZ has 30 open seats, the 1415 is oversold by 10. I guess we'll move our 1300 flight to 1415."

As far as my opinion on the matter, I can't believe that people are doing the 'shame, shame' act towards Air Canada. Perhaps Air Canada is a bit naive in allowing former employees access to the travel site however don't forget the only reason that person can use the site in the first place is because they spent time EARNING that PRIVILEDGE. Priviledges are only given out to people the company trusts and deems deserving in the first place. Has our world really gotten to such a point where a company needs to be suspicious of people who have spent time working for them and have earned their trust? as Wilbur so nicely put it "The fact I leave home without locking my doors and windows does not make it OK for some punk to rob me." I think the real sad thing in this whole issue is that the honest people are going to end up suffering. The travel site, although convenient and an almost must for booking pass travel on Air Canada (as with stand-by pass travel in general) is still a priviledge. Easy come, easy go. Let's just hope this incident doesn't help open the exit door.

newguy · Post by **newguy** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:51 am

I am so pissed off at air canada...i dont' know why but i just feel like they killed my puppy. They all deserve to loose their jobs...it's only right. i mean look at them...westjet is soooo much better. i feel like they gave me a new puppy and then aircanada killed that one, brought it back to life and killed it again. I'm not sure what sueing someone means and yous guys use a lot of big words that i don't know about (you probably work for aircanada too and are planning to kill my puppy) but i do know that i hate aircanada soo much. i hate them...i heard about this guy who one time told me about how good westjet was and that they arn't really a business but all they do is feed puppies all day and take care of puppies so that is why i love westjet and hate aircanada. i love westjet with all of my body...including my pee pee.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:01 am

Hmm I’m surprised that the computer kids haven’t kicked in and appraised the forum how easy it is to get caught. Their IP address length of interaction dates, which is mapped to a DNS, is all on file. There was more then the two individuals involved as his log in details were passed out to numerous people as indicated in the number of hits (1015) per day.

This was definitely a concerted effort on the part of WJ employees. So much for the corporate and personal ethics of the WJ crowd.

gelbisch · Post by **gelbisch** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:42 am

cyyz wrote:Very few of us are making AC look "evil" we're just stating that it's sad that they would try to pull a stunt like this.. Shameful..

first tell me that westjet wouldn't have done the same were the tables turned, and second tell me that in that circumstance you wouldn't be applauding westjet and putting air canada down.

the way a few of you automatically vilify air canada and worship westjet regardless of the situation is laughable.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:55 am

Gelbisch, you are correct I might have been cheering WJ if AC did it to them.

But, I would also be admitting that WJ isn't the brightest bunny on the force having lax rules for their webpage.

But even with all these circumstance WJ continues to prevail without a cent from the gov't(our taxes).

Their maintenance scam as mentioned.
They were shunned by the Courts and were denied access to terminal 1 at Toronto.
Now a frivolous law suit.

Just realised something, someone asked why we all* cheer for WJ and boo AC. Human nature, we prefer to root for the underdog.. AC is Goliath and WJ is David..

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:49 am

cyyz

Far from a frivolous lawsuit, it has the potential to snowball into criminal charges been laid as soon as all the dots are connected. Watch for WJ putting lots of space between themselves and all those responsible. It’s easy to have a successful business plan when some of your smarts are based upon corporate espionage.

I wonder what else WJ is hiding...

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:39 am

Move over Martha, Clive's made a reservation.

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:23 am

Perhaps this so called ex-employee signed an agreement with AC to keep everything that he knew about the company confidental, ie: load information, unknown flight schedules, what milton does in his free time..
Its common practice for most large companies I beleive. Any breech of that trust/agreement could mean a lawsuit, and it sounds like what this guy did. However, it seems AC didn't really look at what this guy was doing when he left....and they gave it away. But if there was an agreement signed, AC could get him on a technicallity, no matter how oblivious they were to his actions...

Oh well, something else to get in the news. Must be conforting for passengers travelling on AC to get a copy of the globe in the morning with AC plastered all over the front page.

Blastor · Post by **Blastor** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:28 am

One set of rules should apply to all.

If Westjet actually did this, they should pay the fine and someone
should go to jail.

No debate. Period.

.
.

Blastor · Post by **Blastor** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:37 am

Westjet Spy caught.....
.
.

727driver · Post by **727driver** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:48 am

Its true that the shine is definately rubbing off the old Blue/Green. As wj gets bigger they are developing the attitude that comes with it. It wasn't to long ago that westjet and canjet had AC before the courts crying foul and unfair business practice when AC was lowering prices on flights that coincided with westjet and canjet. Looks like the shoe is one the other foot. I think what wj did in accessing confidential information was wrong and they know it. Now the sh** is going to hit the fan on this one. Its true that AC should not have left the back open but going into the kitchen and seeing whats in the fridge and stealing the reciepy book is still called trespassing and theft. Just goes to show you at what lengths wj will go to get ahead. I hope they nail the Clive and the rest of his cult leaders to the wall on this one.

PS. flow AC many times and always enjoyed the service and staff. Their top shelf in my books. Wj the only thing shinney on you is your new airplanes.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:01 am

C´mon guys. The business of business is business. What´s with the perverse fascination in AC bashing?

WestJet would have done the same, as would Jetsgo or Canjet. Leave the competition to the marketing departments, we´re all professionals (well, hopefully most of us).

gelbisch · Post by **gelbisch** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:48 am

cyyz wrote:But, I would also be admitting that WJ isn't the brightest bunny on the force having lax rules for their webpage.

maybe, maybe not... but don't you think it's sad that they should have to guard against this sort of thing? as someone mentioned earlier, this has the potential to turn into one moron spoiling it for everyone else. i'd tend to criticize the individual more than the company.

cyyz wrote:Human nature, we prefer to root for the underdog.. AC is Goliath and WJ is David..

come on... you're stretching a bit. what about smaller carriers that westjet competes with? bearskin used to have a thunder bay to winnipeg flight, which they promptly cancelled as soon as westjet moved in--for obvious reasons. no one seemed to be feeling too bad for the "underdog" then. i recall reading a quote in which clive was all upset about smaller carriers taking away westjet customers, as he put it, via a city centre airport. (in edmonton, perhaps? don't have the time or inclination to research this). who was the underdog there?

it works both ways...

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:00 am

Wilbur wrote:Before claiming AC was incompetent in allowing this former employee access you should first, perhaps, learn something about how this all unfolded. Maybe he had been in a senior position and able to set up false accounts, maybe he bribbed someone still on the inside to up his security level, maybe he had enough knowledge of the system that he was able to thwart security measures, etc.

The only thing known here is that WJ is accused of corporate espionage and theft of data. Maybe they're guilty, maybe they aren't. But one thing is for sure, even if AC was lax in their security it does not reduce the culpability of WJ if they were spying. The fact I leave home without locking my doors and windows does not make it OK for some punk to rob me. If WJ is guilty, the executives involved are no different than your local street punk criminals, just a bit more sophisticated, and I hope they also get charged criminally.

Sorry WJ fans, but maybe some of the shine is coming off.

Actually Wilbur your analogy of leaving your doors unlocked doesn't really work. Maybe if you left em locked but gave someone a key and they robbed you it'd be closer. If you did that, the individual would still be a thief but you wouldn't be known as the brightest bulb on the christmas tree either. Note i'm not taking sides on this particular issue, I just don't see how AC can cry foul when they've given someone access to that information. Unless there is some form of contract that the guy signed stating he wouldn't pass the information to the competition, I don't think they have a case. AC still doesn't look like the brightest bulb on the christmas tree since they had to know the guy they fired was working for the competition yet they did nothing to curtail his access to the information. I suspect the only people in the end that are going to get anything out of this lawsuit are the lawyers.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:15 am

gelbisch wrote:bearskin used to have a thunder bay to winnipeg flight, which they promptly cancelled as soon as westjet moved in--for obvious reasons. no one seemed to be feeling too bad for the "underdog" then. i recall reading a quote in which clive was all upset about smaller carriers taking away westjet customers, as he put it, via a city centre airport. (in edmonton, perhaps? don't have the time or inclination to research this). who was the underdog there?

I love Bearskin.. Nice flights to Ottawa. Anything that will have me circumvent Pearson.

But, you're correct, it does go both ways. Whether WJ or AC won the rights to Terminal 1 doesn't affect me, since I try my best to avoid that slum. But I'll jeer for my best interests first.

Air Canada's survival is not in my best interest. CPP, great, it's around now but will it be here in 35 years? Probably not. I'd rather see Air Canada default now, so the industry can recover now over the next 2-5 years, not crumble 10 years from now when it'll hinder my interests much more.

ndb · Post by **ndb** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:15 am

If Air Canada wins this lawsuit, will they make a profit in the future?

gelbisch · Post by **gelbisch** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:26 am

cyyz wrote:CPP, great, it's around now but will it be here in 35 years? Probably not.

well i gotta agree with you there. if i've learned anything the last couple years, it's that you can't trust your future to anyone but yourself.

anyway... far too cynical a thought for a sunny spring afternoon. how 'bout them jays?

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:36 am

gelbisch wrote:
anyway... far too cynical a thought for a sunny spring afternoon. how 'bout them jays?

Nice to see most of you taking these allegations as 100% truth already... this is all coming from the media don't forget.

As for the Jays...

Major League Baseball sucks and is the worst pro sport in existence.