Accident in North Vancouver

[North Shore]

Shaky details so far. No fatalities, thankfully..

http://www.cknw.com/2017/06/11/crews-re ... m=Facebook

[lhalliday]

Here's the neighbourhood where it happened, from earlier in the afternoon.

Note the yellow sulphur pile, the "racetrack" to its right, and the overpass with the viaduct over the train tracks. That's where the plane landed.

...laura

[cncpc]

Good job, buddy.

[North Shore]

Hmm...too much air in the tanks, according to CKNW now..

[goldeneagle]

Same story being reported now on cbc

North Vancouver plane crash blamed on empty fuel tanks

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.4157241

Didn't take the tsb folks long to figure this one out...

[crazyaviator]

I am soo glad he skillfully put the smoldering wreck of a plane down safely and without loss of life he is my hero !!!!

[7ECA]

Not many 172's around that'll haul enough fuel for a ~300NM round trip with four adults onboard. And that's ~300NM on a VFR trip - not direct...

[CpnCrunch]

Pilot says he had 20 gals in the tanks when he dipped at YAZ, but engine quits from fuel exhaustion after 1hr10mins flying, so there's something strange going on there.

W+B will work with 4 people if they weigh about 150lb each.

[PieLit]

With 20 gallons of fuel, BEW of around 1450, and a MTOW of 2300lbs, that leaves 180lbs/person. Perfectly okay.

He dipped the tanks in Tofino and had 20 gallons. That's 2.5 hours at 8 gph. Plenty of fuel.

Yes, he ran out of fuel, but the puzzling question is why?

Was the dipstick inaccurate (wrong stick for the airplane), or did he have a fuel leak?

Great forced approach considering where it happened.

[North Shore]

8 gph? Assuming correct leaning, no? How much full power to get up to a safe altitude to cross the mountains on VI, and get safe gliding distance across the strait? I'd think that 10gph might be a more realistic burn..
Was the dipstick calibrated properly?

I'll agree with you that the numbers work out of CYAZ - but, IIRC, there's no gas there - so did the actual numbers work out of Langley? or did he skimp on fuel so as not to bust MTOW?

[Cobra64]

With 20 gallons of fuel, BEW of around 1450, and a MTOW of 2300lbs, that leaves 180lbs/person. Perfectly okay.

He dipped the tanks in Tofino and had 20 gallons. That's 2.5 hours at 8 gph. Plenty of fuel.

Yes, he ran out of fuel, but the puzzling question is why?

Was the dipstick inaccurate (wrong stick for the airplane), or did he have a fuel leak?

Great forced approach considering where it happened.

It does seem odd, doesnt it. With 20 in the tanks for the eastbound leg, by my math on Skyvector he should have had around 1:20 reserve on arrival. I wonder if he did a whole bunch of sight seeing on the trip over the island and on the coast? I'm not familiar with flying around Vancouver, and reason he would have been up in the harbour area other than sightseeing? Can you get to Langley around the south of the YVR cz?

[CpnCrunch]

I wonder if he did a whole bunch of sight seeing on the trip over the island and on the coast?

He did do two climbs for some reason, which would use a couple of gallons each:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CGBMH

And he was just on CTV there saying he still wants to be a bush pilot.

[7ECA]

I wonder, did this fellow actually dip the tanks - and thus get his 20USG of avgas, or did he flip on the master and see 10 each side on the old Cessna's gauges?

From the interview on the news, I have a hard time believing this group was ~150/person, head more towards standard weights and you're probably a lot more accurate.

[swixtt]

I'm surprised by the tracker data that you provided a link to... I had no idea! How and why does this get activated for a vfr flight? To what extent will this cover?

[boeingboy]

He just said he had 20 gallons......I doubt he dipped the tanks.

[dirtdr]

I'm surprised by the tracker data that you provided a link to... I had no idea! How and why does this get activated for a vfr flight? To what extent will this cover?

All my VFR flights show up on Flightaware since I enables the ES on my transponder (ADSB out). But the tracklog will show that the info came from "flightaware ADSB".

This flight looks like it was tracked by Vancouver Center the whole way. Mabee they called to get a squak code beforehand and were in the system....

Before I had ADSB out, none of my VFR flights would show up on flightaware, even if traveling through class C airspace..

[CpnCrunch]

He just said he had 20 gallons......I doubt he dipped the tanks.

Well he said:

before taking off after I did what is called a "Walk around" and verified the looks fine and checked the fuel tanks, we still had 20 Gallons of fuel, which means we had 2hrs and a half remaining of fuel.

which I take to mean he dipped the fuel on the walk-around.

[CpnCrunch]

All my VFR flights show up on Flightaware since I enables the ES on my transponder (ADSB out). But the tracklog will show that the info came from "flightaware ADSB".

This flight looks like it was tracked by Vancouver Center the whole way. Mabee they called to get a squak code beforehand and were in the system....

Before I had ADSB out, none of my VFR flights would show up on flightaware, even if traveling through class C airspace..

Even without ADS-B your flights will usually show up on flightradar24 when flying to somewhere like Tofino. I think it depends how it's tagged by ATC, but I'm not sure what the criteria is. (Either a long flight, or a flight in class C airspace, or a flight through US airspace).

[7ECA]

Looking at the flight aware data, his track took him along the "Northern Route" via the Sunshine Coast.

Surely to God, at some point well before fuel starvation took over at the Lions Gate Bridge, he would have noticed the declining if not nearly empty tanks and decided to divert and refuel. I mean, you've got Port Alberni, Comox, Campbell River, Powell River, Sechelt, etc...

[delta1]

***Fuel Exhaustion not starvation - there is a difference.

I actually find it concerning that someone would do a trip like this and simply run out of fuel. 172 fuel gauges are not reliable.

[boeingboy]

Well he said:


Quote:

before taking off after I did what is called a "Walk around" and verified the looks fine and checked the fuel tanks, we still had 20 Gallons of fuel, which means we had 2hrs and a half remaining of fuel.


which I take to mean he dipped the fuel on the walk-around.

Well....my bad if he did. I only saw the interview he did with CTV - which he said "TSB must be wrong....I had 20 gallons when I took off. I don't know - maybe there was a leak or something"

Doesn't really matter though - there is absolutely no excuse for running out of gas on a clear day, leisurely flight around the lower mainland.

[fins]

Well he said:


Quote:

before taking off after I did what is called a "Walk around" and verified the looks fine and checked the fuel tanks, we still had 20 Gallons of fuel, which means we had 2hrs and a half remaining of fuel.


which I take to mean he dipped the fuel on the walk-around.

Well....my bad if he did. I only saw the interview he did with CTV - which he said "TSB must be wrong....I had 20 gallons when I took off. I don't know - maybe there was a leak or something"

Doesn't really matter though - there is absolutely no excuse for running out of gas on a clear day, leisurely flight around the lower mainland.

I agree 'boeingboy' I flew there several times in 172 ,182 and had fuel issues albeit tough to get fuel at Tofino airport had to wait 3 hours sometimes....nevertheless when in doubt; don't go.
I think Transport Canada will not fall for that...dippin the tank story.
In bush flying decision making an integral part to survive, Insurance companies seeing this crash result from running out of fuel will make it not!
The fact is it cant be 20 gallons at departure! the numbers don't lie!
Am glad luckily no one got killed........
Winds where westerly and strong I bet, that being said an increased burn...you add to the 300 mile return trip!
Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, as Judy would say..baloney!

[CpnCrunch]

https://www.facebook.com/GlobalBC/posts ... 1017547808

"Octavio Hernandez Van Steenberghe Well, The story goes like this. We had 5 hrs and 15 min of fuel when we left Langley airport towards Tofino, on the way there everything was fine,we made it in 1hr and 50 min and before taking off after I did what is called a "Walk around" and verified the looks fine and checked the fuel tanks, we still had 20 Gallons of fuel, which means we had 2hrs and a half remaining of fuel. After 1hr and 10 min passed after leaving Tofino; right after passing by lions Gate bridge is when we lost power, engine starting sounding rough and immediately tried to identify the cause of the problem following by trying to re-start the engine around 3 times without success. Ending up declaring in state of emergency (engine failure on flight) with the ATC in operation at that moment and immediately started looking for a safe place to land, at first I thought on landing on the highway eastbound but since it was rush hour and Sunday which made it a very busy time, had to deviate to look for other options while I was already descending. Saw to parks on either side but unfortunately they seemed too busy with families having bbq's, kids playing and running around and had to look for another place, the only possibly place left I had was W 1st Street and then started a right turn towards it but i noticed there were numerous power lines across the street plus a fuel truck was turning ahead of me and end it up by doing a left turn towards a parking lot I saw at the very last moment and started heading towards it.
The reason why some people didn't hear the engine sound is because I had to shut it down intentionally as part of the forced approach procedure, by cutting off the fuel supply, electrical systems off, and basically all this to avoid any possible spark that could start a fire on the landing. Unfortunately / Fortunately got hooked up by a cable from Telus I believe (sorry people if i cause some disruption on your service), backing down the plane causing it to impacting on the fence and well I think this actually helped us out by absorbing the impact force of 60 Kts roughly 100 km/hr and ended up in the position you guys all saw probably, with very minor scratches on 3 of us except by one of the guys who covered his girlfriend with his arm getting it broken we vacate the plane thought the broken windshield since the doors got trapped by the wing strut and the bent wing on the other side even though we had the doors open before impacting but Happy this ended up this way because I know the result could have been way worst specially if the plane would have crashed on someone's car, house or even on someone. I wouldn't be in this state of mind I am now. Thanks to everyone who stopped immediately to help us out by calling 911 and thank you for taking your time to read this unforgettable moment."

[RatherBeFlying]

Mixture?

Gas cap?

[cncpc]

https://www.facebook.com/GlobalBC/posts ... 1017547808

"Octavio Hernandez Van Steenberghe Well, The story goes like this. We had 5 hrs and 15 min of fuel when we left Langley airport towards Tofino, on the way there everything was fine,we made it in 1hr and 50 min and before taking off after I did what is called a "Walk around" and verified the looks fine and checked the fuel tanks, we still had 20 Gallons of fuel, which means we had 2hrs and a half remaining of fuel. After 1hr and 10 min passed after leaving Tofino; right after passing by lions Gate bridge is when we lost power, engine starting sounding rough and immediately tried to identify the cause of the problem following by trying to re-start the engine around 3 times without success. Ending up declaring in state of emergency (engine failure on flight) with the ATC in operation at that moment and immediately started looking for a safe place to land, at first I thought on landing on the highway eastbound but since it was rush hour and Sunday which made it a very busy time, had to deviate to look for other options while I was already descending. Saw to parks on either side but unfortunately they seemed too busy with families having bbq's, kids playing and running around and had to look for another place, the only possibly place left I had was W 1st Street and then started a right turn towards it but i noticed there were numerous power lines across the street plus a fuel truck was turning ahead of me and end it up by doing a left turn towards a parking lot I saw at the very last moment and started heading towards it.
The reason why some people didn't hear the engine sound is because I had to shut it down intentionally as part of the forced approach procedure, by cutting off the fuel supply, electrical systems off, and basically all this to avoid any possible spark that could start a fire on the landing. Unfortunately / Fortunately got hooked up by a cable from Telus I believe (sorry people if i cause some disruption on your service), backing down the plane causing it to impacting on the fence and well I think this actually helped us out by absorbing the impact force of 60 Kts roughly 100 km/hr and ended up in the position you guys all saw probably, with very minor scratches on 3 of us except by one of the guys who covered his girlfriend with his arm getting it broken we vacate the plane thought the broken windshield since the doors got trapped by the wing strut and the bent wing on the other side even though we had the doors open before impacting but Happy this ended up this way because I know the result could have been way worst specially if the plane would have crashed on someone's car, house or even on someone. I wouldn't be in this state of mind I am now. Thanks to everyone who stopped immediately to help us out by calling 911 and thank you for taking your time to read this unforgettable moment."

I see.