French? Spitfire..

[North Shore]

Ouch!
http://globalnews.ca/news/3520561/airsh ... m=Facebook

[Antique Pilot]

Ouch!
http://globalnews.ca/news/3520561/airsh ... m=Facebook

Friend of mine was there. No ambulance on site and took about 30 minutes for one to arrive.

AP

[crazyaviator]

Looks like a simple rookie mistake! He let the tail up WAY too far and chewed the prop, failed to correct and was simply along for the ride,,,,, Maybe a case of too much money and too little EQUIVALENT training OR he was going into auto-J-3 mode?

[Antique Pilot]

Looks like a simple rookie mistake! He let the tail up WAY too far and chewed the prop, failed to correct and was simply along for the ride,,,,, Maybe a case of too much money and too little EQUIVALENT training OR he was going into auto-J-3 mode?

My friend that was there says this is a Griffon powered Spifire...lots more power. Says he applied power very quickly and brought the tail up quickly at the same time.

AP

[pelmet]

In such a situation, best to get lots of people to run out and help lift the aircraft. A pilot can choke to death when upside down. Has happened before. Time is critical.

[cgzro]

The right wheel dug in as it got up on the mains. The directional control looked perfect so power application speed was likely fine. My guess is he was unlucky and hit a rut. Happened at Genesceo to a very experienced spit pilot but fortunately only a prop strike. Grass has its dangers.

[crazyaviator]

Says he applied power very quickly and brought the tail up quickly at the same time.

Exactly what NOT to do,,,, But what do I know, I have never flown a griffon powered Spitfire !!!

[crazyaviator]

GZRO, If you look closely and continuously repeat video, you will see that his rudder is far left and his elevator only corrects for the nose too low attitude AFTER he has chewed up the dirt and the plane was on its own from that moment onward ! There was NO rut in the grass IMHO that caused this sad event but rather it was simple pilot failure !

[Antique Pilot]

GZRO, If you look closely and continuously repeat video, you will see that his rudder is far left and his elevator only corrects for the nose too low attitude AFTER he has chewed up the dirt and the plane was on its own from that moment onward ! There was NO rut in the grass IMHO that caused this sad event but rather it was simple pilot failure !

I agree. I have a sequence of still pics which show both wheels nice and level. No ruts.

AP

[FICU]

The dirt being sprayed is from the prop strike not a wheel getting caught.

[cgzro]

Hmmm You may be right, I looked at it a few more times more carefully and the dirt spray is indeed after its past level.

[AirFrame]

I remember a Mustang pilot telling me once that takeoff involved full rudder trim, full rudder, and then use the throttle to control your direction down the runway while you're accelerating... Tail stays on the ground until the rudder has some authority.

A number of Corsairs rolled on their backs in training due to rapid power changes on takeoff as well. Seems this is to be expected when your engine is that large.

With great power comes great responsibility...

[sidestick stirrer]

What I don't understand is why the rescuers didn't go to the other side of the fuselage, where there is a half door in the side of the fuselage for use in egressing the cockpit when the airplane is inverted

[JasonE]

Full video from taxi a bit further away: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnVAPfCgjxI

[crazyaviator]

I'm more convinced now with the other video that the pilot was simply nosing down to attain a proper attitude for most other taildraggers but of course for this airplane that results in a prop strike ! There was still a lot of weight on wheels,, compounding the fact!

[AirFrame]

What I don't understand is why the rescuers didn't go to the other side of the fuselage, where there is a half door in the side of the fuselage for use in egressing the cockpit when the airplane is inverted

If you watch the full video, they do run around the other side. Why they can't get him out through that door is unknown.

[Spandau]

What I don't understand is why the rescuers didn't go to the other side of the fuselage, where there is a half door in the side of the fuselage for use in egressing the cockpit when the airplane is inverted

If you watch the full video, they do run around the other side. Why they can't get him out through that door is unknown.

Despite it's "fighter" paint scheme, that particular Spitfire is a PRXIX model, a pressurized, high altitude "photo" Spit, and because it was pressurized the access door on the left hand side wasn't fitted to that version. This particular one is the one that had been fitted with contra-rotating props from a Shackleton when it was first rebuilt and flown a few years ago in California.

[AirFrame]

Despite it's "fighter" paint scheme, that particular Spitfire is a PRXIX model, a pressurized, high altitude "photo" Spit, and because it was pressurized the access door on the left hand side wasn't fitted to that version. This particular one is the one that had been fitted with contra-rotating props from a Shackleton when it was first rebuilt and flown a few years ago in California.

Interesting, thanks for the history lesson... I didn't know there was ever a pressurized Spitfire. Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't contra-rotating props negate the torque effect on takeoff? I thought most of that came from trying to suddenly accelerate the large, heavy propellor relative to the airframe, but if you had one going each way, wouldn't they cancel each other out?

[cgzro]

Did not look like it still had the contra rotating props, those were apparently very troublesome due to spur gear failures, but yes contra rotating props would reduce much of the gyroscopic, P - factor and torque effects but you still have a very large heavy rotating crankshaft which no doubt has some noticible gyroscopic behaviour of its own.

With a high power to weight ratio tail dragger the usual problem when you push the tail up is the ensuing swerve that results from the P-factor and gyroscopic effect of tilting that large disk forwards. I imagine with contra rotating props this would not be anywhere near as large of a factor and you could probably push the power forward more aggressively with less concern for directional control.

[Spandau]

The Shackleton prop mod was removed after the airplane was sold and it was converted back to essentially stock PR XIX configuration a couple of years ago. I think the contra-prop thing was because the guys that rebuilt it in Chino (it belonged to the Planes of Fame Air Museum at the time) were going to take a crack at the piston engined time-to-climb record. For whatever reason though I don't think they did.

[pelmet]

http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... 00550a5efd

There seem to be some people with Spitfire experience on thread linked above. Apparently a repeat of the cause of the accident with Sir Tim Wallis. Which shows what? Read as many accident reports as you can on the types you fly, especially for unusual and/or complex types. If the above is correct, this accident was easily preventable with recent experience out there.