Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

[Canoehead]

The captain may have been professional yes, but I question why there was a pax allowed up front with a camera to record it. How did that come about? And to do with overhead bin space? Dumb.

Rookiepilot, sorry but are you serious with your comment above?

[rookiepilot]

The captain may have been professional yes, but I question why there was a pax allowed up front with a camera to record it. How did that come about? And to do with overhead bin space? Dumb.

Rookiepilot, sorry but are you serious with your comment above?

I'm not sure what you mean, but cabin crew should be expected to remain calm at all times regardless of how much of a jerk a passenger can be. That's their job.

If I was that captain I would have kicked that FA off the flight, and if in management that person would be history. I don't care what the circumstances were leading up, that kind of FA has zero business being on a aircraft, including as a passenger.

You asked. No tolerance for physical violence from pax, and certainly not from crew either.

[HiFlyChick]

You've been lucky if you've never seen rude FAs on Air Canada - I had a stopover... once

Once the lav was being serviced and you couldn't get off the aircraft to go on a short stop... BRUTAL... what a customer service nightmare.

Pardon me for only listing one of the times that I have experienced rude FAs on AC, not like there weren't others....

No, I didn't get beat up like the guy that got hauled off the flight, etc etc, but when a paying, polite customer is told one thing by one FA and then treated like a child and grouched at by another, yes, that is called bad customer service. Or have our standards have slipped so low in our expectations of general customer service in all sectors that rudeness and lack of basic amenities (yes, going to the bathroom when one needs to can be a big deal at the time!) don't even make it onto our radar as bad customer service.

BTW, I wasn't saying it was traumatic like what we've seen in the news lately, but you had made the statement that you had never encountered rude FAs - sadly, I think that's the exception, not the rule.

[Canuck1988]

Food for thought:

Most airlines will have some sort of literature in their COM or FAM that stresses the importance of a one crew concept, and when dealing with an unruly passenger will state something along the lines of if a FA is not comfortable with having said passenger on the flight, the Captain and company will back that FA up and remove the passenger.


On an related note, I'm sick of the fad of daily news articles on airlines.

[Canoehead]

The captain may have been professional yes, but I question why there was a pax allowed up front with a camera to record it. How did that come about? And to do with overhead bin space? Dumb.

Rookiepilot, sorry but are you serious with your comment above?

I'm not sure what you mean, but cabin crew should be expected to remain calm at all times regardless of how much of a jerk a passenger can be. That's their job.

If I was that captain I would have kicked that FA off the flight, and if in management that person would be history. I don't care what the circumstances were leading up, that kind of FA has zero business being on a aircraft, including as a passenger.

You asked. No tolerance for physical violence from pax, and certainly not from crew either.

Sorry, I should've quoted your statement that I'm questioning:

...AC is an over represented culprit. Sorry to pick on AC. A few -- so much so I question their ability to function calmly in a real emergency.
Can't handle a cranky passenger, without staying calm? How will you ensure everyone's safety in a serious emergency, while staying calm and in control?

I'm not sure how much you travel, however I can assure you I've travelled (on AC) both as a contingent passenger and on company business more than I care to remember, and I believe you are blowing the number of 'angry' FA's out of proportion. I've seen a few (like literally a few), however by-and-large, they are incredibly skilled, patient and professional, and many are very friendly.

FA's are humans too. Yes, one of their primary tasks is customer relations, however the number one priority is cabin safety. Did this guy overreact? Maybe he did; I'm not saying he didn't cross a line. But I'd be willing to bet that in an emergency he's probably top-shelf (any WJers comment?). Questioning one's ability to be on their A-game if an emergency arises because they were angry/upset with a passenger is, in my opinion, out of touch with the reality of it all. I know a few FA's at my company who wouldn't crack a smirk at Second City, but they're among my choices to have in the back if things are not good from the safety POV. I also know many with infectious personalities who are not my preferences if something abnormal happens. Both types are in the minority.

I'll say it again though, this woman had ZERO right to be in the flight deck with a cell phone recording a conversation with the captain. The ONLY mistake that captain did was to not close the door and lock it before she got through the galley. And if he waded into the situation by request, then I'm a little surprised.

[altiplano]

Pardon me for only listing one of the times that I have experienced rude FAs on AC, not like there weren't others....

Well since that's your story I'll assume it's the worst you have... and honestly I think it's you. I could carry on but what's the point...

[Gravol]

No airline has a 100% customer satisfaction rate.
No airline is perfect, nor will they ever be perfect.
No airline can hire or screen 100% "no fault" employees

Where does this leave us?

I will fly with the airline who has delivered reliable and consistent product as per my subjective experience. If they score 9/10 and have a slip up, I can live with that.

1, 2, 3, 4? Hell, 5 ? Slip ups in one year? Give me a break. Air Canada and United have made their bed. They can sleep in it.

[rookiepilot]

Canoe,

FWIW I do fly a lot, and have probably flown on ever major airline except perhaps southwest.

In my humble opinion AC is overrepresented on the rudeness side of their staff -- at check in desk at the gate and on the plane. Including in business class. I admit truly bad cases are quite rare, but for sheer snotty attitude -- come on.....everyone knows AC wins that contest.

Yeah it's a long bus ride and expectations are pretty much zero, but personally I've gotten a bit tired of it. As I've gotten older flying overseas, gets real old real fast.

My last international trip was 6 legs to, from and within Asia, and I flew Cathay, (who manages not to land short of the numbers as well). It was so nice I'd forgotten what politeness looks like. Including in economy.

I'll be going back and I'll fly Cathay again, even paying more to do so. Cathays reputation is, like AC's, accurate. My friends were always telling me to fly them, now I know why. Night and day.

BTW, I don't ever defend truly poor behaviour by passengers, and I'd be quick if it was me to eject same from my airplane.

[Cat Driver]

I worked overseas for decades and from my experience Cathay and Singapore Airlines were the best service wise.

Air Canada's Europe service was pretty good service wise on the airplanes.

However their customer service at the airport check in desks could be very customer poor.

[confusedalot]

hiring practices may be an issue?

fire away.

Happened to work overseas as well, and therefore ended up as a passenger, at times with, and at times without, a uniform. Over 36 years, I can say that I was NEVER mistreated on foreign airlines, quite the opposite. That includes the US.

Now, for the most part, I was treated OK on canadian operators, however, for some strange reason, I have many times felt somewhat uneasy in my very own country. Not all of the time of course. I have had a few experiences where I was treated like a King, have had a few experiences where I was looked upon up and down with mild contempt, without having done nothing except sitting in my seat after stowing my baggage four rows down.

I dunno, it's a mixed bag here in canada. some staff are great and some, well........let's just say some may have a few issues to deal with.

like I said before, fire away.

[Beefitarian]

I think the reason I am extra disappointed in flight attendants at Air Canada being mean is, before the turn of the century they were rumored to be extra nice.

Back in 2000 I was happy to pay more to ride with AirCanada because I got great service and it made being locked in a tube for hours more pleasant. I figured the one nasty flight attendant I encountered was an anomaly.

I'm sure the fact that the entire population of Canada has had a decline in manners has be a huge factor.

[rookiepilot]

Look at the skytrax ratings. All you need to see. Complete collapse in AC.

Edit.

5/10 rating reviews for a 4 star airline.

http://www.airlinequality.com/airline-r ... ir-canada/


People defending AC should read a few of the hundreds of reviews. Same theme over and over. Arrogant staff.

[confusedalot]

Careful now with skytrax.

If you look at their rankings, AC is a 4 star, along with british airways, air france, KLM, Vietnam, and the like. Not quite at Singapore, Lufthansa, Etihad or Cathay, which are 5 star.

Westjet is in the 3 star category for some reason.

[av8ts]

The reviews/stars/ratings are totally irrelevant. When most people look for a flight they don't search that crap, they search one thing only. PRICE. As long as AC or WJ or any airline has competitive pricing they will get customers.

[rookiepilot]

The reviews/stars/ratings are totally irrelevant. When most people look for a flight they don't search that crap, they search one thing only. PRICE. As long as AC or WJ or any airline has competitive pricing they will get customers.

Maybe most. Not for me. Time, stress, aggravation are worth far more.

And that's the point. Let's go open skies so we have more options. Why not if we can cut a fair deal?

[PROC_HDG]

The reviews/stars/ratings are totally irrelevant. When most people look for a flight they don't search that crap, they search one thing only. PRICE. As long as AC or WJ or any airline has competitive pricing they will get customers.

Maybe most. Not for me. Time, stress, aggravation are worth far more.

We get it. You have a hard on for WestJet. At the end of the day, AC is no longer the post-bankruptcy AC that drove away so many customers due to frustrated/rude front-line staff and lagging service. It is far and away the #1 choice for business flyers in Canada, and the front line service is improving on a daily basis. Astime goes on, the two airlines in this country come closer and closer to being the same thing. WJ has had the benefit of single-fleet, limited market, kool-aid drinking staff for years. But with their expansion into new and challenging markets, and front-line staff realizing just how the company feels about them, they will run into these "AC" types of problems more and more.

PROC_HDG

[rookiepilot]

It is far and away the #1 choice for business flyers in Canada, and the front line service is improving on a daily basis.
PROC_HDG

To where? Winnipeg? Lots of choice there.
Not far and away the top business class choice to anywhere else. Gotta be kidding there.

I've flown international business on AC, and business on Cathay, and others. Literally night and day in every way you can imagine.

AC business class has gone way downhill compared to international carriers, IMO.

The rude employees are still there, they refuse to fire them.

[Old fella]

The reviews/stars/ratings are totally irrelevant. When most people look for a flight they don't search that crap, they search one thing only. PRICE. As long as AC or WJ or any airline has competitive pricing they will get customers.

For leisurely and vacation travellers I agree most, if not all do not follow these airline rating sites, probably meaningless to them. Price is the determining factor.

[PROC_HDG]

It is far and away the #1 choice for business flyers in Canada, and the front line service is improving on a daily basis.
PROC_HDG

To where? Winnipeg? Lots of choice there.
Not far and away the top business class choice to anywhere else. Gotta be kidding there.

I've flown international business on AC, and business on Cathay, and others. Literally night and day in every way you can imagine.

AC business class has gone way downhill compared to international carriers, IMO.

The rude employees are still there, they refuse to fire them.

"Air Canada Named Canada's Preferred Airline by Frequent Business Travellers in Ipsos Reid Survey"
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.p ... tem=137693

PROC_HDG

[cap41]

WHERE IS THE COCKPIT SAFETY

Isn't the cockpit locked?

[complexintentions]

I think it's impossible to make simplistic statements about something as complicated as an airline i.e. Airline A = good, Airline B = bad. I've flown on AC and WS both a zillion times and had the complete range of experiences on both. It comes down to the day, the flight, the specific crew. Not to mention a lot of it is on the passenger travelling. Ever notice how some people ALWAYS seem to have a negative experience? Hmm. Do you think perhaps it could be something to do with THEM, not the airline? lol

So I just consider overall trends. Personally, I have found over the last ten years AC service to be vastly improved, and WS to be trending slowly downward. Which isn't to say that AC is perfect and WS is terrible, not at all. I still fly on either one quite happily depending on schedule and price. But as WS comes to resemble a more traditional carrier, it does follow that the service level naturally suffers as it transitions from folksy upstart to a large corporation. AC on the other hand has been forced to pick up their game, and it shows.

But stereotypes and brand loyalty tend to make for rigid mindsets. I'm always amazed at how many people still think AC is a Crown corporation receiving "government handouts" or think Westjet is amazing because, hey, they're Westjet and they y'know, used to make funny PA's or buy pizza or whatever. Not acknowledging that both companies today are nothing like they were even a few years ago. And will continue to change going forward.

But, thinking is hard. And hating on Air Canada while blindly praising WestJet is a cherished national pastime.

[True North]

I think it's impossible to make simplistic statements about something as complicated as an airline i.e. Airline A = good, Airline B = bad. I've flown on AC and WS both a zillion times and had the complete range of experiences on both. It comes down to the day, the flight, the specific crew. Not to mention a lot of it is on the passenger travelling. Ever notice how some people ALWAYS seem to have a negative experience? Hmm. Do you think perhaps it could be something to do with THEM, not the airline? lol

So I just consider overall trends. Personally, I have found over the last ten years AC service to be vastly improved, and WS to be trending slowly downward. Which isn't to say that AC is perfect and WS is terrible, not at all. I still fly on either one quite happily depending on schedule and price. But as WS comes to resemble a more traditional carrier, it does follow that the service level naturally suffers as it transitions from folksy upstart to a large corporation. AC on the other hand has been forced to pick up their game, and it shows.

But stereotypes and brand loyalty tend to make for rigid mindsets. I'm always amazed at how many people still think AC is a Crown corporation receiving "government handouts" or think Westjet is amazing because, hey, they're Westjet and they y'know, used to make funny PA's or buy pizza or whatever. Not acknowledging that both companies today are nothing like they were even a few years ago. And will continue to change going forward.

But, thinking is hard. And hating on Air Canada while blindly praising WestJet is a cherished national pastime.

^ Yup.

[altiplano]

It is far and away the #1 choice for business flyers in Canada, and the front line service is improving on a daily basis.
PROC_HDG

To where? Winnipeg? Lots of choice there
Not far and away the top business class choice to anywhere else. Gotta be kidding there.

I've flown international business on AC, and business on Cathay, and others. Literally night and day in every way you can imagine.

AC business class has gone way downhill compared to international carriers, IMO.

The rude employees are still there, they refuse to fire them.

Yeah business class on AC looks like a real drag...



Oh, and, best airline in NA again...

Airline named North American leader in customer satisfaction for sixth time in eight years


MONTREAL, June 20, 2017 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada was today named Best Airline in North America by the 2017 Skytrax World Airline Awards at the International Paris Air Show. It is the sixth time in eight years Canada's flag carrier has been named the continent's best airline by Skytrax, whose survey of almost 20 million air travellers is recognized as the global benchmark of industry excellence.

Air Canada Named Best Airline in North America by Skytrax World Airline Awards at the Paris Air Show (CNW Group/Air Canada)

"We are delighted to be recognized as the Best Airline in North America by Skytrax based on the opinions of those who know us best: our customers. This award is a significant milestone in the transformation of Air Canada into one of the world's leading carriers and is all the more meaningful given the increased competition in our industry," said Calin Rovinescu, President and Chief Executive of Air Canada.

"I thank our employees for their hard work and dedication in helping us earn this distinction and I thank our customers for their loyalty and support as we have expanded our reach across the globe. As we celebrate our 80th year in 2017, we are extremely proud to be Canada's flag carrier, North America's Best Airline and its only Four Star network carrier," added Mr. Rovinescu.

Benjamin Smith, President, Passenger Airlines at Air Canada, said: "This award, based on the opinions of almost 20 million air travellers worldwide, shows customers are enthusiastically embracing the significant investments Air Canada is making in its products and services. These include the introduction of the state-of-the-art Boeing 787 Dreamliner into our fleet, a widening choice of destinations to choose from in our expanding global network, refurbished aircraft interiors featuring our next generation lie flat Business Class seats on all of our Boeing 777 and 787 aircraft and dedicated Premium Economy cabins, as well as other enhanced amenities ranging from sharply restyled Maple Leaf Lounges to signature dishes and wine pairings onboard."

"We are delighted to welcome Air Canada back at the World Airline Awards to recognize their achievement of being named the Best Airline in North America. To receive this accolade six times, in the last eight years is a remarkable achievement and we congratulate the airline on this outstanding, consistent performance," said Edward Plaisted, Chief Executive of Skytrax.

Since 2010, Air Canada has embarked on a $10 Billion capital expenditure program to elevate the travel experience. Customer-focused initiatives have included:

An expanded global network connecting over its Canadian gateway hubs to 95 cities in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, Australia, the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America and South America. Air Canada is one of only a few airlines in the world to serve all six inhabited continents;
A fleet renewal program that introduced Boeing 777s and state-of-the-art Boeing 787 Dreamliners, with new Boeing 737MAX aircraft arriving in 2017 and Bombardier CSeries jets entering the fleet in 2019;
Refitted cabin interiors across its wide-body fleet, including the introduction of the first lie-flat business seat fleetwide in North America and the first dedicated Premium Economy cabin in North America;
New International, Domestic and U.S. Maple Leaf Lounges;
Training initiatives for customer-facing inflight, airport, baggage and call centre employees, including expanded language capabilities. There are an estimated 80 languages spoken by Air Canada employees and in addition to English and French, service is available from three call centres in North America in Spanish, Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean and Japanese. From nine call centres outside North America service is offered in local languages, including Portuguese, Spanish, German, Italian, Hebrew, Mandarin, Cantonese and Japanese;
Technological innovations to facilitate customer interactions, including a new website compatible with all types of devices for a consistent experience, ongoing refinements of mobile technology, and increased investments in AI to further develop customer-focused capabilities and information management;
Enhanced onboard amenities such as signature dishes prepared by celebrated Canadian chef David Hawksworth coupled with wine pairings by world-renowned sommelier Veronique Rivest, and in-flight Wi-fi connectivity fleet-wide in North America to complement Air Canada's personal seatback In-Flight Entertainment System offering hundreds of hours of free digital audio-visual content.
About Skytrax

The 2017 edition of the annual Skytrax poll measured opinion from 19.87 million travellers drawn from over 105 countries worldwide between August 2016 and May 2017. The survey covers over 325 airlines, from largest international airlines to smaller domestic carriers, and evaluates quality standards across 41 key performance indicators in front-line products and services in the airport and onboard environments.

About Air Canada

Air Canada is Canada's largest domestic and international airline serving more than 200 airports on six continents. Canada's flag carrier is among the 20 largest airlines in the world and in 2016 served close to 45 million customers. Air Canada provides scheduled passenger service directly to 64 airports in Canada, 57 in the United States and 95 in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, Australia, the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America and South America. Air Canada is a founding member of Star Alliance, the world's most comprehensive air transportation network serving 1,300 airports in 191 countries. Air Canada is the only international network carrier in North America to receive a Four-Star ranking according to independent U.K. research firm Skytrax. For more information, please visit: http://www.aircanada.com, follow @AirCanada on Twitter and join Air Canada on Facebook.

[sanjet]

altiplano, CBC just released an article to question the legitimacy of Skytrax since AC got the award.
Air Canada will never win with CBC, no use fighting it. It's a canadian tradition to bash AC.

Survey ranks Air Canada as top North American airline — is it true?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-can ... -1.4169313

I'm just glad I live in a country where air travel is still relatively ok with AC, Westjet and Porter.

[Verdasco]

he shouldn't of grabbed her cellphone, the frustration on his face looks scary and frightening to EVERYONE inside the plane, especially worried passengers

and why does he have orders to kick people out of the plane? isn't that the captains? captain did well on calming the passenger a bit but the flight attendant needs to shut up and let the captain close the bridge


she was upset that she couldn't place her carry on bag up top because it had medicine that was important? how about moving bags around to accommodate the lady?