Katrina and the mess she left.

[Vickers vanguard]

looting, shootings and total chaos !! so much from the highly civilized people......with the long history!! you know, the ones without the sticks and camels others mentioned earlier on this forum. following the tsunami tragedy, the locals were trying to help each other and not rob each other.....but that's the uncivilized third world !! now go ahead, shoot me.

[Siddley Hawker]

Yeah, but the ones without the sticks and camels showed up with aid from half a world away.

[CID]

I say to, Paul Martin instead of sucking up to George Bush, you should call him and tell him we have some 2X4's for sale.....

Brace yourself. The US "coalition for fair lumber imports" would kindly drop softwood lumber tariffs for any wood donated to the rebuilding effort. Doesn't that warm the cockles of your heart?

http://www.canada.com/businesscentre/st ... 132226a2e4

A spokesman for the U.S. lumber lobby, meanwhile, said Canadian producers should be exempted from those punitive softwood duties - but only on free lumber donated to the rebuilding effort in Louisiana and Mississippi.

"If Canada wants to do the humanitarian aid and donate their lumber, there would be no duty on free lumber," Scott Shotwell, a spokesman for the protectionist Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, said in an interview from Washington.

As for suspending the legally-dubious tariffs to give American consumers a temporary price break of more than 20 per cent, Shotwell said only donated lumber should be exempted.

[North Shore]

The other thing about DART is that they might not be wanted by the powers-that-be in Washington. It's a little embarassing to have the most powerful military in the world and have to rely on the military assistance of a neghbour because all of yours and a good portion of the national guard is off gallivanting on the other side of the globe, no?

I'm not sure that this is a good time to link the trade issues. Most of the people who are being hurt here have little to do with the timber or beef industries, and so punishing them byplacing conditions on aid is a little unfair, IMHO. Now if it was a bunch of timber barons who were stuck, perhaps we could all chip in a few bucks for a pump to add more water to that already there!

[LH]

North Shore -----I'm afraid sir that you are incorrect with regards the National Guard. The National Guard is under the DIRECT control of the Govenor of each particular State and NOT....I say again NOT....the President ogf the United Sates of America. That is guaranteed by the provisions of the US Constitution and "States Right" written therein.

In a declared "National Emergency", the President can demand each State he asks to supply UP TO50% of their National Guard manpower.......and not one percent more. The only two States that have contributed 50% of their National Guard to Iraq is Washington and Wyoming. They will send no more and have stated so

So are there lots of National Guard personnel left throughout the various States?........"Yes" and that number approximates 1.4M. That number also does not include two Divisions of the Army that NEVER leave American mainland soil and are kept for "defense of the homeland" at ALL times......and that was legislated by Congress over 100 years ago.

Everything is available and waiting, but " Mr. Numb-nuts" in the White House couldn't organize a "circle-jerk" and so everyone is standing around with their fingers of their asses waiting for orders to move 5 days after one of, if not the greatest natural disasters in US history. He ain't the only one to blame either. The US Congress rushed back on a Sunday to pass a law regarding whether the brain-dead lady in Florida should be allowed to die in her hospital bed, but 5 days after the flooding in New Orleans, they MAY be convening on Friday. I also take due note that the majority of those in need of the most help are BLACK and the poor of ALL colours.

[Expat]

The funniest part on Tv today was the press conference. Afraid of being accused of making political gains on the crisis, the great moron showed up on TV with Bill Clinton. In order to make it look like he was not avoiding the issue with Clinton, he also invited Sr.
And we were treated with the normal presidential "resolve".
When is he going to learn a new word?
Pathetic...

[swede]

I would have to agree with this guy, the only disaster which can top Katrina, is Bush, calling him a disgrace is a compliment...

http://www.rense.com/general67/disas.htm

[Hedley]

Hey Swede, I didn't know you were an American. Are you upset because you voted for Kerry or something?

[Wilbur]

The Canadian military has assisted with previous hurricane relief and rebuilding in the US. It was following a big hurricane in Flordia about 10 years ago. A couple ships were sent to the area.

If the provincial liberals in Ontario have sent a team to help, that just makes the feds look that much worse again. Why is it provinces can quickly send help but the federal government can't? I'll give you two answers.

1. The federal Liberals do not do anything for anyone unless it will buy them votes.

2. They have dismantled our military to the point that mounting a quick relief effort or response to any disaster is a near impossibility.

[swede]

Hey Swede, I didn't know you were an American. Are you upset because you voted for Kerry or something?

Hey Hedley:

Here is a nice I love you note from that commie pinko bastard moore to your illustrious hero, el presidente bush: And no, I didnt vote for Kerry, at least however, Kerry served his country and put himself in harm's way, as opposed to playing hide and seek in the Texas ANG - stateside- for 2 & 1/2 years..

Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
http://www.MichaelMoore.com

[. ._]

I say we send down some CL-415's- no more burning buildings. The amphibious planes would be able to medivac out people too. But the americans wouldn't pay for it, because that's socialism. Yes, spending government money to help people is socialism- and I like it! As with anything- in moderation, of course.




-istp

[North Shore]

LH, thanks for the correction on the command/control of the Nat'l Guard - I wasn't quite aware of how it was run. Nevertheless, I posted that a

good portion of the national guard is off gallivanting

in Iraq. While that might not be true of the Guard in total across the US, in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama(35%, 40% and 23% off overseas) I feel that is true - those are good portions of the forces.

http://go.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPo ... ID=9514112

Sadly, though, I think that complacency has struck the US - they have the biggest economy, the strongest military,the most freedom etc...what could possibly hurt them? They just weren't ready. Give them a week to get properly organised, and things will start falling into place.

The other thing about our government is that even if they had sent help first thing on Monday, I'm sure that Wilbur would have been ranting from the sidelines that we were helping out too quickly, in light of the trade situation between our countries....[/quote]

[Flying Low]

The US response to this disaster on their own land is absurd. Unfortunately this stretches from the people who live in affected areas all the way up to the top administration in the country.

With all the warnings of impending doom for the New Orleans area you would think that people who couldn't leave would have stockpiled supplies of, at least, fresh water (even if you filled any container you could find with tap water) and medications that you would require for a period of a week, maybe 10 days. You are in the middle of a disaster area with tens of thousands of other victims. Do not get upset if they don't get to you first.

As for the outside response. I don't understand why FEMA/US military didn't have stuff stockpiled in a safe place with a whole bunch of heavy lifters in place and ready to move. As soon as the hurricane had gone by you send in helicopters of engineers to clear airports and launch the heavy lifters to those airports. Send in troops to secure these airport sites and start setting up relief areas immediately. A large number of SAR helicopters and teams should have been ready to go...with armed escort helicopters. If they start taking fire from idiots on the ground shoot back...THERE IS ABSOLOUTELY NO EXCUSE TO BE SHOOTING AT THESE AIRCRAFT! If you shoot at one of these aircraft you should not be surprised to receive return fire. If you are near someone shooting at these aircraft and don't feel you can stop them take cover!

I cannot believe it has taken this long to get things moving when they knew this was coming. The reponse to the tsunami took longer because no one knew it was coming or the extent of the damage it had caused. The hurricane was predicted and they even sent out warnings of how bad this one could get.

OK...end of rant...I feel a wee bit better now!

[CID]

I wish Canada had the same abilities if something like this ever happened here.

Based on what I've heard, I think we can do much better.

[Hedley]

Swede: Are you telling me that you're not American?

If that is true, why are you so eager to meddle in the politics of another country? That would make you as evil as GWB meddling in Iraq, wouldn't it?

Oh, I get it. It's ok for lefties to "break the rules", but not bad ol' rednecks. The old lefty double standard. Gotcha!

[swede]

Swede: Are you telling me that you're not American?

If that is true, why are you so eager to meddle in the politics of another country? That would make you as evil as GWB meddling in Iraq, wouldn't it?

Oh, I get it. It's ok for lefties to "break the rules", but not bad ol' rednecks. The old lefty double standard. Gotcha!

Aw come on now hedley, is that the best you can come up with? Are you trying to provoke nationalistic fervor? Don't ya know were just one big happy family, a global community. Good thing for us ole GW is protecting the world's oil supply from getting into the hands of the teurists. He's a little too busy with that too spend a lot of time on domestic problems..

[hazatude]

Hedley...

Swede is an expert on history, foriegn affairs, nationalism, socialism, manifest destiny, Louis Riel, figs and dates, Islam, oil, American politics and aviation...

You're out of your league boy!

[t34ag]

Swede... one of the best posts i"ve read......GWB.....what an ass h**e !!!

[swede]

Hedley...

Swede is an expert on history, foriegn affairs, nationalism, socialism, manifest destiny, Louis Riel, figs and dates, Islam, oil, American politics and aviation...

You're out of your league boy!

Yes and inspite of the vast array of knowledge, I am still trying to find someone with the answer to some straight forward questions. For instance, on 911, what was the mechanism that caused the collapse of wtc 7? I guess only a left wing pinko like me could ask such an outrageous question, because apparently critical thought is passe.

[hazatude]

The bad guys hit the towers with heavy iron at 500kts.

WTF did you think would happen? Butterflies?

[swede]

I am talking about wtc 7 idiot - it was hit by nothing, nada, zilch, google it..

[CID]

The bad guys hit the towers with heavy iron at 500kts.

Which bad guys? I assume you mean Saudi Terrorist Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. And that's why GWB is in Iraq? No wait. Its because of the WMDs. No wait. There weren't any. It was to bring democracy to Iraq to counter Al Qaeda's desire to rid Muslim countries of what it sees as the profane influence of the West and replace their governments with fundamentalist Islamic regimes. No wait. I just don't know.

And what exactly does all that have to do with Louisiana and Katrina? Time to slide back on topic.

Here's an interesting article on the plan to pump the water out of the city.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... nes-nation

One statement struck me as strange:

"We're going to try draining a very large, 30-foot-deep lake," said Col. Richard Wagenaar, the corps' senior official in New Orleans. "We've done nothing like this before."

Hasn't every major mining company in the world done this sort of thing in similar scales? I wonder if they have considered asking for expertise outside the corp of engineers.

I have a feeling that there are some major dredgers operating on the Mississipi river. As a matter of fact, I found an article that shows a dredging unit on the Mississippi operated by the US Army Corps of Engineers in "the old days".

http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/features/fea ... river.html

[swede]

The bad guys hit the towers with heavy iron at 500kts.

WTF did you think would happen? Butterflies?

I am talking about wtc 7 idiot - it was hit by nothing, nada, zilch, google it..

[fanspeed]

ok back on topic pls

[EI-EIO]

Wilbur WTF are you blithering about DND/Federal response. Hillier told the US DART is ready to deploy and other units were offered. From the Globe of yesterday:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... /National/

Since deploying Canadians on American soil without prior agreement has been a touchy subject since the early 1800s, sadly practicality has to defer to protocol.