YVR Flow
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YVR Flow
Hey,
Just wondering if any ATC folk from the YVR ACC can shed some light on the constant implementation of flow into YVR for the last few months.
Thank you very much
Just wondering if any ATC folk from the YVR ACC can shed some light on the constant implementation of flow into YVR for the last few months.
Thank you very much
Re: YVR Flow
"Due to staff shortages and limited system capacity..." on each and every sunny day. Haha...
Re: YVR Flow
That normally means Union negotiations are under way or about to commence.7ECA wrote:"Due to staff shortages and limited system capacity..." on each and every sunny day. Haha...
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Re: YVR Flow
Often times it's one or two guys working all frequencies. At one of the busiest airports in Canada.
My favourite is the KEINN crossing times of 20 minutes past planned ETA, then "resume normal speed" as soon as you get there, and you're one of only 3 guys on approach.
My favourite is the KEINN crossing times of 20 minutes past planned ETA, then "resume normal speed" as soon as you get there, and you're one of only 3 guys on approach.
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Re: YVR Flow
Nothing like flying to YYJ in 10 minutes, then only to sit on the ground there for 45 while waiting for flow. Best part?... no aircraft in the area when we finally get into YVR. So what's the reason?
A month ago we had flow for anything eastbound over FL280... 1 hour. So we filed FL270 to Edmonton's FIR then stepped it up. I wonder how much fuel that cost the company.
A month ago we had flow for anything eastbound over FL280... 1 hour. So we filed FL270 to Edmonton's FIR then stepped it up. I wonder how much fuel that cost the company.
Re: YVR Flow
This "limited system capacity" been happening for years to a certain extent (at least for VFR), mostly on sunny days. This year just seems worse than usual. YYJ hasn't normally been affected in the past, but now you can't even do circuits there.
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Re: YVR Flow
Not to mention the guy that normally has the nasally "game show host" voice is out of character full time now... I used to love hearing that.
Almost as much as the happy day guy in YYC!
Almost as much as the happy day guy in YYC!
Re: YVR Flow
WE just ratified a contract. So no.Broker wrote:That normally means Union negotiations are under way or about to commence.7ECA wrote:"Due to staff shortages and limited system capacity..." on each and every sunny day. Haha...
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Re: YVR Flow
Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
Re: YVR Flow
Stu Pidasso wrote:Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
I totally disagree! Nav Canada provides one of safest and reliable Air Traffic Services in the world. You should be a little more respectful of those that have your back.
RT
Re: YVR Flow
Still no concrete answer about why this has been happening for years. I don't blame the staff. It must be a management issue, or else some fundamental problem with the universe (not enough warm bodies that are competent enough to work for ATC). I suspect the former.Rtodd wrote: I totally disagree! Nav Canada provides one of safest and reliable ATS services in the world. You should be a little more respectful of those that have your back.
RT
Re: YVR Flow
Great blanket statement with absolutely nothing to back it up. Say what you want, we are good at what we do and what we do is SAFELY move trafic as expeditiously and orderly as possible. Sorry if that gets in your way. We provide great service at very, very low costs for the airline industry. Also if you aren't happy with the service I strongly suggest you file a complaint. After all, how will we get better if we are so bad at our jobs? By reading useless forum posts?Stu Pidasso wrote:Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
Also when I say low cost this is not why we are short staffed. Training people if very, very difficult and takes time. We are really focusing on training right now to avoid these delays.
Re: YVR Flow
I'm not sure how 50% of Jazz's late afternoon flights into YVR being either cancelled or delayed by > 20 mins is a "great service". We probably can't blame all their delays on flow control, but usually Jazz is nowhere near as bad as this.Braun wrote:We provide great service
That may be the problem. The airlines push to reduce Nav Can costs, and this is the result. Perhaps now they've realised they can't cut things to the bone.very, very low costs for the airline industry.
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Re: YVR Flow
If you think our controllers are second rate, you probably should stay on the ground then. That would help the rest of us, less aircraft less flow. Never the less, NavCan controllers are the best given what they have to work with. Visit a tower or control centre to get a better understanding of the job they do, maybe then you'll be appreciative.
Re: YVR Flow
I never said that, and I just looked over this thread and nobody has said or implied that the controllers are second rate.Alcoholism wrote:If you think our controllers are second rate,
I have, and I am appreciative of individual controllers, just not your management. If I've gotten my facts wrong, feel free to correct me.Visit a tower or control centre to get a better understanding of the job they do, maybe then you'll be appreciative.
Re: YVR Flow
Braun wrote:Great blanket statement with absolutely nothing to back it up. Say what you want, we are good at what we do and what we do is SAFELY move trafic as expeditiously and orderly as possible. Sorry if that gets in your way. We provide great service at very, very low costs for the airline industry. Also if you aren't happy with the service I strongly suggest you file a complaint. After all, how will we get better if we are so bad at our jobs? By reading useless forum posts?Stu Pidasso wrote:Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
Also when I say low cost this is not why we are short staffed. Training people if very, very difficult and takes time. We are really focusing on training right now to avoid these delays.
Anyone want to explain what reduced system capacity is? Might 27 VTA controllers doing the job of 44 VTA positions have something to do with it? In a well run company should this problem be solved in more or less than a decade?CZVR DUE TO REDUCED SYSTEM CAPACITY AND ANTICIPATED TFC DEMANDS, VFR ACFT CAN ANTICIPATE RESTRICTIONS AND MAY BE DENIED FLT IN TML CLASS C AIRSPACE
Re: YVR Flow
Nobody has a problem with YVR VTA controllers unless they are having a very bad day. The manager on the other hand is obviously not able to do the job.Alcoholism wrote:If you think our controllers are second rate, you probably should stay on the ground then. That would help the rest of us, less aircraft less flow. Never the less, NavCan controllers are the best given what they have to work with. Visit a tower or control centre to get a better understanding of the job they do, maybe then you'll be appreciative.
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Re: YVR Flow
CpnCrunch wrote:I never said that, and I just looked over this thread and nobody has said or implied that the controllers are second rate.
Stu Pidasso wrote:Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
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Re: YVR Flow
Thanks Diadem. Now, before Stu means the company and not the controllers, well if one were to say that AC or WS or insert your company here is second rate, wouldn't you think that would include the pilots? Perhaps better worded next time would be advisable. Every company has its issues. I hear many times from co workers making quips about controllers, so easy to do with lack of understanding. They're (ATC) trying to do their best. That is all.