Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

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altiplano
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by altiplano »

TFTMB heavy wrote: Are you keeping the WS calculation on the 737 scale the whole time and moving the AC one onto a wide body after a certain time?
No 737 scales all the way.

Maybe it was confusing when I said a year 19 an AC guy may hold WB by then... what I meant is it wouldn't be a fair comparison after that.
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altiplano
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by altiplano »

rudder wrote:Career trajectory projections are at best specious. The fact that one AC pilot with 4 years of tenure can hold 737/320 CA does not mean that every AC pilot with 4 years of service can hold 737/320 CA. The fact is that a few 4th year AC pilots can hold 737/320 CA is because hundreds of more senior pilots have passed on that opportunity. So, for a few 5th year AC pilots the pay rate will be $200/hr+. But for 95% or more the pay rate will be that of 5th year EMB CA/ NB FO/ Rouge FO/ WB FO/ WB RP.

The compensation comparison is interesting but also misses lifestyle considerations and the consequences of a junior schedule. In addition, 12 months on reserve at AC can easily result in total annual pay below 900 hours. The RSV monthly pay guarantee is DMM-7 and the 900 hour annual minimum pay guarantee is for blockholders and is prorated for months spent on RSV.

As for the actual direct cost comparison of an AC NB CA vs a WJ NB CA - I suspect that will be a topic that will be beaten to death at the WJ/ALPA bargaining table.
It really is an apple to orange comparison - we can't compare every potential trajectory at AC with the fairly straight forward one at WS.

Some guys will go EMJ CA in a year to get off the flat pay, and some will stay RP for 10 years to work as little as possible... Some will go 777 FO after a few years and make almost as much as a 737 CA and stay there until they go 787 CA.

So the best comparison we can make for now, and I thought the point of this thread, is 737 to the bottom of the list at each. But I didn't look at the PDF... maybe there was more to it.
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rudder
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by rudder »

altiplano wrote:
It really is an apple to orange comparison - we can't compare every potential trajectory at AC with the fairly straight forward one at WS.

Some guys will go EMJ CA in a year to get off the flat pay, and some will stay RP for 10 years to work as little as possible... Some will go 777 FO after a few years and make almost as much as a 737 CA and stay there until they go 787 CA.

So the best comparison we can make for now, and I thought the point of this thread, is 737 to the bottom of the list at each. But I didn't look at the PDF... maybe there was more to it.
All true.

But what is not reflected in the spreadsheet is that being junior at WJ and being junior at AC are very different experiences. Perhaps that is the reason that so many AC pilots defer promotional opportunities (combined with the restricted course rights).

When the new FT/DT rules kick in, NB schedules will all be at least 15 days per month with far fewer high credit single day trips. Perhaps even more AC pilots will defer promotions and remain on the WB side of the operation.

I believe that the career comparison between AC and WJ is less of a financial exercise and much more subjective in terms of the type of flying that one wants to do over their career and how much control they want to have over their schedule and location of base.
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Bede
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by Bede »

My calculations showed a ~$700k difference in total compensation between a WJ and AC pilot after a 25 year career. WJ pilots earn slightly more than Rouge per year, but less per hour TAFB.
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JBI
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by JBI »

Bede wrote:My calculations showed a ~$700k difference in total compensation between a WJ and AC pilot after a 25 year career. WJ pilots earn slightly more than Rouge per year, but less per hour TAFB.
Ya, but how can we trust your calculations? Do you have a PhD in science or something?! :lol:
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FurHat
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by FurHat »

But what about DIVIDENDS?! Were these included in your calculations!?
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CaptainHaddock
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by CaptainHaddock »

Plus AC has trip/duty rigs. You fly hard time at WestJet (no credit system) and will have a higher TAFB at WestJet. So..you are working more and away more for the pay.
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privateer
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by privateer »

What is Nav Pay?
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leftoftrack
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by leftoftrack »

They get paid to progress a VOR/NDB/GPS waypoint. It was something that came into their agreement 50 years ago, and the company never negotiated it out
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altiplano
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Re: Westjet vs. AC Pilot Pay Comparison PDF

Post by altiplano »

privateer wrote:What is Nav Pay?
$8.97 / hour

Any narrowbody that flies overseas gets this premium in addition to the overseas premium. It is also added into various guarantees, ie. MBG...

Aside from the obvious, "overseas" is also basically all the Caribbean, Bermuda, Hawaii, South America...
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