Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

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RocksAndProps
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Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by RocksAndProps »

There have been three more ads this week alone. Why is this still happening?

Job ads in Canada are weird, asking for 3000tt for left-seat BE20 in Canada, while 400TT gets you an right seat ATR72 in Australia, or 3000TT gets you 744 left-seat in Europe. Not sure why the North seems so behind on this prospect...

Qualified applicants need not apply :rolleyes:
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Cat Driver
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by Cat Driver »

The best way to change that is for you to start your own company and then you can decide what you want for qualifications in a pilot. :mrgreen:
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7507
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by 7507 »

Cat Driver wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:31 pm The best way to change that is for you to start your own company and then you can decide what you want for qualifications in a pilot. :mrgreen:
A little off topic but,
I have a great idea and plan to start a floatplane charter/sightseeing business with a demand for it but my wife wont let me.
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godsrcrazy
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by godsrcrazy »

If you don't like it then don't apply.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by Zaibatsu »

They are putting them up because their business model depends on it and they aren’t getting applicants.

Nobody but desperate pilots are going to drive a forklift or cargo van in Hay River or Yellowknife for the hours they require and pay they offer.

Now those same pilots are going straight into the right seat of a turboprop much further south.

Schadenfreude.
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PreparBetterThnXpln
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by PreparBetterThnXpln »

People stop applying, then they will stop asking. Supply demand.
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7507
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by 7507 »

PreparBetterThnXpln wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:12 pm People stop applying, then they will stop asking. Supply demand.

Exactly!
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Eric Janson
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by Eric Janson »

RocksAndProps wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:20 pm T400TT gets you an right seat ATR72 in Australia, or 3000TT gets you 744 left-seat in Europe.
I'm based in Europe and fly regularly in Australia.

I'm disputing your claims - care to back them up with actual job listings?
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by Zaibatsu »

7507 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:44 pm [quote=PreparBetterThnXpln post_id=<a href="tel:1019503">1019503</a> time=<a href="tel:1510697535">1510697535</a> user_id=53657]
People stop applying, then they will stop asking. Supply demand.

Exactly!
[/quote]

Uh...... no.

How many Air Canada ads do you see? Westjet ads? Jazz ads? None. You know why? Because they always have an abundance of applicants.

Buffalo Joe, and every other shitty operator used to be the same way... because they had a stack of resumes a foot thick plus a bunch of wannabes clawing at the door and trying to climb through the windows.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by goingnowherefast »

People not applying means they will pepper the internet with ads hoping to find somebody. Once the position goes unfilled for 6 months, then they will rethink the plan and maybe hire a local for something better than slave wages.
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by confusedalot »

So.......if no one applies, I would think that to be a positive sign for pilot employment.

The ramp ad posters are fishing, nothing more. It does not mean that they will get any bites. Lots of unemployed people out there, they will resort to unskilled non aviation help and life will go on, just like tim hortons.
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lownslow
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by lownslow »

PreparBetterThnXpln wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:12 pm People stop applying, then they will stop asking. Supply demand.
Surprisingly untrue. They will still show up and practically beg for a ground position if they think it gets their foot in the door or some possible future adantage.
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172_Captain
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by 172_Captain »

RocksAndProps wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:20 pm There have been three more ads this week alone. Why is this still happening?

Job ads in Canada are weird, asking for 3000tt for left-seat BE20 in Canada, while 400TT gets you an right seat ATR72 in Australia, or 3000TT gets you 744 left-seat in Europe. Not sure why the North seems so behind on this prospect...

Qualified applicants need not apply :rolleyes:

Really? The last BE20 left seat job that came up only asked for 1500tt.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 7&t=120923

Also, why does it matter to you? Just because you don't see it as the right thing to do doesn't make it so. The wonderful thing about being an adult is making your own decisions.
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g5
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by g5 »

The industry has changed a lot, and I'll admit I'm out of touch with 703 or anything related to Canadian aviation these days really. Years ago it was either ramp or instruct. Instructors then had the task of getting multi time.

My instructor told me to head north and get a ramp job so I did.

Some Canadians don't realize how lucky they are to do some real flying. I suppose there were times when my chief pilot was threatening to fire me for not wanting to work on my day off that I didn't appreciate flying pop'n chips in freezing rain to Fort something or whatever Lake. But I was young and up until that point it was the best job I'd ever had so I couldn't complain. I guess it depends why you are getting into aviation but I'm glad I started off on the light stuff, worked my way through medium and heavy props and then narrow body jets. I can't imagine how bored a European type rating buying RyanAir 200hr wonder is going to be 20 years into his career.

These days all I care about is how much time I get to spend at home. If you're just getting into aviation with a young family at home then I'm afraid it's probably going to suck, but if you're young and nobody is banging down your door trying to offer you your first flying gig then it may be your only option. Well... that or instruct,
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by valleyboy »

No one apply - really, pilots are a bunch of whores and there will always be someone to fill a seat. I'm not sure what is expected for 703 salaries but little airplanes = low cash flow and operators will go out of business before the salaries come up much more. Virginal pilots are looking for one thing and that is experience. If you have good working conditions and enough money to feed yourself and keep a roof over your head suck it up and take the hit in the money department. You are only working there for one reason and that is to move on as soon as you can. Stop and think about what you are getting out of it and the bullshit the small operators must go through for you to better your career. There are always 2 sides of the story and sadly a lot of the up and coming aviators only consider "me" - look at the big picture some times and consider yourself lucky.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by rookiepilot »

172_Captain wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:53 pm
RocksAndProps wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:20 pm There have been three more ads this week alone. Why is this still happening?

Job ads in Canada are weird, asking for 3000tt for left-seat BE20 in Canada, while 400TT gets you an right seat ATR72 in Australia, or 3000TT gets you 744 left-seat in Europe. Not sure why the North seems so behind on this prospect...

Qualified applicants need not apply :rolleyes:

Really? The last BE20 left seat job that came up only asked for 1500tt.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 7&t=120923

Also, why does it matter to you? Just because you don't see it as the right thing to do doesn't make it so. The wonderful thing about being an adult is making your own decisions.
Exactly. I'm not sure why this is even a story.

Pilots can command aircraft weighing upwards of a million pounds, exercise incredible judgement, but can't sift a good opportunity vs a lousy one?

Personal. Responsibility.
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RocksAndProps
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by RocksAndProps »

Eric Janson wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:08 pm I'm based in Europe and fly regularly in Australia.

I'm disputing your claims - care to back them up with actual job listings?
https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pilot ... -Australia

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pilot ... a-Airlines
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by Cat Driver »

Valid medical assessment of 1 Class issued in accordance with Russian regulation;
• Documents confirming total flight hours as a pilot at least 3000 hours,

not less than 500 hours of which as a pilot-in-command on the aircraft type (B744) which is planned to be operated
How many pilots meet that requirement?
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RocksAndProps
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by RocksAndProps »

Cat Driver wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:12 pm How many pilots meet that requirement?
This is true, very few.
Admittedly I only started this thread to get a discussion going about the current state of affairs for early-career pilots, regardless of the examples I used in doing so.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Why is the ramp still a thing that happens?

Post by Cat Driver »

My comment was only to point out the need to read all of the add.

Working the ramp is a choice a pilot has, no more no less.
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