This has been a very bad month so far....hope they will find some survivors ....
prayers for the families ..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8944885/
An airliner crashes in Greece
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Pilot_adam
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bob sacamano
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ATHENS, Greece (CNN) -- A Cypriot plane carrying 121 people has crashed into a mountain north of Athens after losing contact with air traffic controllers, Greek officials said.
Helios Airlines Flight 522 with 115 passengers and six crew crashed en route from Larnaca, Cyprus to Athens about 12 p.m. (0900 GMT, 5 a.m. ET) Sunday, officials said.
Greek officials said there appeared to be no survivors, and early reports indicated that as many as 80 of the passengers were children.
The Boeing 737 crashed near the coastal town of Grammatikos, about 40 km (25 miles) north of Athens and near the historic town of Marathon.
"There is wreckage everywhere," Grammatikos Mayor George Papageorgiou told The Associated Press from the scene.
Only the tail section was recognizable, he said. "The fuselage has been destroyed. It fell into a chasm and there are pieces. All the residents are here trying to help."
The jet entered Greek air space about 10:30 a.m., but efforts by air traffic controllers to contact the pilots were futile. After some time, two Greek F-16s were scrambled, Greek Air Force spokesman Yiannis Papageorgiou told CNN.
As the F-16s approached, their pilots saw "no sign of life" in the cockpit, and the plane apparently was on autopilot, Papageorgiou said. They escorted the craft until it struck the mountain.
One of the F-16 pilots reported that the co-pilot appeared to be slumped in his seat and that he could not see the captain, a Greek Defense Ministry official told Reuters.
Greek TV station Alpha reported that the pilot had sent a message to air traffic controllers saying the plane had a problem with its air conditioning, after which all communication was cut, Reuters said.
Greek television also reported that one of the passengers had sent a mobile text message to his cousin before the crash saying the pilots were slumped and that it was freezing in the plane.
"The pilot has turned blue (in the face)," the passenger said in the SMS message to his cousin, Reuters quoted the television report as saying. "Cousin farewell we're freezing."
The official said police and military helicopters were at the scene, and dozens of ambulances were on their way, Reuters reported.
Military helicopters spotted some debris and smoke but no movement on the ground, Reuters said.
Reuters describe the scene as an uninhabited mountainous bushland area which is difficult to reach.
Witness Dimitris Karezas, who owns a summer camp in the area, said, "I saw the plane coming. I knew it was serious or that it was some kind of VIP because I saw the two fighter jets.
"Two, three minutes later I heard a big bang and ever since I've started looking for it, but I have not found anything yet," he told reporters.
Helios Airlines is a subsidiary of Cyprus Airlines.
Journalist Anthee Carassavas contributed to this report
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08 ... index.html
Helios Airlines Flight 522 with 115 passengers and six crew crashed en route from Larnaca, Cyprus to Athens about 12 p.m. (0900 GMT, 5 a.m. ET) Sunday, officials said.
Greek officials said there appeared to be no survivors, and early reports indicated that as many as 80 of the passengers were children.
The Boeing 737 crashed near the coastal town of Grammatikos, about 40 km (25 miles) north of Athens and near the historic town of Marathon.
"There is wreckage everywhere," Grammatikos Mayor George Papageorgiou told The Associated Press from the scene.
Only the tail section was recognizable, he said. "The fuselage has been destroyed. It fell into a chasm and there are pieces. All the residents are here trying to help."
The jet entered Greek air space about 10:30 a.m., but efforts by air traffic controllers to contact the pilots were futile. After some time, two Greek F-16s were scrambled, Greek Air Force spokesman Yiannis Papageorgiou told CNN.
As the F-16s approached, their pilots saw "no sign of life" in the cockpit, and the plane apparently was on autopilot, Papageorgiou said. They escorted the craft until it struck the mountain.
One of the F-16 pilots reported that the co-pilot appeared to be slumped in his seat and that he could not see the captain, a Greek Defense Ministry official told Reuters.
Greek TV station Alpha reported that the pilot had sent a message to air traffic controllers saying the plane had a problem with its air conditioning, after which all communication was cut, Reuters said.
Greek television also reported that one of the passengers had sent a mobile text message to his cousin before the crash saying the pilots were slumped and that it was freezing in the plane.
"The pilot has turned blue (in the face)," the passenger said in the SMS message to his cousin, Reuters quoted the television report as saying. "Cousin farewell we're freezing."
The official said police and military helicopters were at the scene, and dozens of ambulances were on their way, Reuters reported.
Military helicopters spotted some debris and smoke but no movement on the ground, Reuters said.
Reuters describe the scene as an uninhabited mountainous bushland area which is difficult to reach.
Witness Dimitris Karezas, who owns a summer camp in the area, said, "I saw the plane coming. I knew it was serious or that it was some kind of VIP because I saw the two fighter jets.
"Two, three minutes later I heard a big bang and ever since I've started looking for it, but I have not found anything yet," he told reporters.
Helios Airlines is a subsidiary of Cyprus Airlines.
Journalist Anthee Carassavas contributed to this report
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08 ... index.html
Yow, that's really disturbing... 
Here's a link to some pics of the accident site. The crash started some forest fires which had to be extinguished.
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ ... Nzc2xpc3Q-
"The pilot has turned blue (in the face)," the passenger said in the SMS message, Reuters quoted the television report as saying. "Cousin farewell we're freezing."
One witness told Reuters: "I saw many bodies scattered around, all of them wearing (oxygen) masks.
As the F-16s approached, their pilots saw "no sign of life" in the cockpit, and the plane apparently was on autopilot, Papageorgiou said.
The F-16 pilots reported the pilot was not in the cockpit, and the co-pilot was slumped over the controls, Anastasi said.
They also reported they could see through the plane's windows that the oxygen masks had dropped down.
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Now check out this link, it's a passenger review of a Helios flight. Odds are it wasn't the same plane; I'm just throwing it out there.
http://www.carsurvey.org/air/review_11283.html
Here's a link to some pics of the accident site. The crash started some forest fires which had to be extinguished.
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ ... Nzc2xpc3Q-
"The pilot has turned blue (in the face)," the passenger said in the SMS message, Reuters quoted the television report as saying. "Cousin farewell we're freezing."
One witness told Reuters: "I saw many bodies scattered around, all of them wearing (oxygen) masks.
As the F-16s approached, their pilots saw "no sign of life" in the cockpit, and the plane apparently was on autopilot, Papageorgiou said.
The F-16 pilots reported the pilot was not in the cockpit, and the co-pilot was slumped over the controls, Anastasi said.
They also reported they could see through the plane's windows that the oxygen masks had dropped down.
-----------------------------------------------
Now check out this link, it's a passenger review of a Helios flight. Odds are it wasn't the same plane; I'm just throwing it out there.
http://www.carsurvey.org/air/review_11283.html
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Redneck_pilot86
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KISS_MY_TCAS
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helinas.....prove it.
As I am against ballistic cockpit doors and always have been, once again a lack of them may have saved this one or at least made the outcome better. Something to think about if ever you are stuck in there unconcsoius, on fire, and someone has to try to axe through the thing. Shame that nobody in the back on oxygen and fully coherant could do anything other than watch the events unfold. RIP.
As I am against ballistic cockpit doors and always have been, once again a lack of them may have saved this one or at least made the outcome better. Something to think about if ever you are stuck in there unconcsoius, on fire, and someone has to try to axe through the thing. Shame that nobody in the back on oxygen and fully coherant could do anything other than watch the events unfold. RIP.
My condolense to all the family members of this crash. Heard that there
were many children on board.
As with a prevoius post, I to agree that closing the pliots in there
cockpit with those doors is insane. Maybe there was a pilot on board
who could have taken over for a minute and taken it down.But I am only a GA pilot, what do I know.
I am very sad to hear about another crash and the lives that will be affected by the loss of life.
were many children on board.
As with a prevoius post, I to agree that closing the pliots in there
cockpit with those doors is insane. Maybe there was a pilot on board
who could have taken over for a minute and taken it down.But I am only a GA pilot, what do I know.
I am very sad to hear about another crash and the lives that will be affected by the loss of life.
This has defintely been a bad year for aviation. It really hit home when I saw pictures of the CL-215 dropping water on the 737 crash site. I couldn't help but think of the poor pilots who lost the tail of their CL-215 fighting a fire a short time before or the people in the back of the 37 flying around for a few hours knowing they were done for.
The armoured doors have a keypad whereby you can gain access to the flight deck if the flight attendants were still conscious. The problem is you wouldn't have that much time at 35,000 feet without oxygen to do it. I too am not a big fan of the doors but not for the reasons listed. As a crew we are always trained to handle emergencies together. I have often wondered what would happen if one of the flight crew members was in the back taking a washroom break or fetching a snack and there was a rapid decompression. The normal way to get back into the flight deck is to chime the other pilot and get them to open the door. During a rapid decompression the other pilot would never hear the chime. So the only way to get back in would be to use the key pad, which if you knew what you were doing would take about 20 secs to get the door open. Unfortunately at 35,000 your useful consciousness would be gone before you got back in your seat and doned the oxygen mask.
At any rate its a tradgedy, RIP.
The armoured doors have a keypad whereby you can gain access to the flight deck if the flight attendants were still conscious. The problem is you wouldn't have that much time at 35,000 feet without oxygen to do it. I too am not a big fan of the doors but not for the reasons listed. As a crew we are always trained to handle emergencies together. I have often wondered what would happen if one of the flight crew members was in the back taking a washroom break or fetching a snack and there was a rapid decompression. The normal way to get back into the flight deck is to chime the other pilot and get them to open the door. During a rapid decompression the other pilot would never hear the chime. So the only way to get back in would be to use the key pad, which if you knew what you were doing would take about 20 secs to get the door open. Unfortunately at 35,000 your useful consciousness would be gone before you got back in your seat and doned the oxygen mask.
At any rate its a tradgedy, RIP.
Not all airliners are required to have such doors. This isn't a world wide requirement so it may not have had them.As with a prevoius post, I to agree that closing the pliots in there
cockpit with those doors is insane. Maybe there was a pilot on board
who could have taken over for a minute and taken it down.But I am only a GA pilot, what do I know.
Based just on what I've read lately, Helios is a bit of a fly-by-night operation. Lots of customer dissatisfaction and maintenance problems.
During a rapid decompression, he wouldn't need to hear a chime. He'd feel it in his ears quite easily.During a rapid decompression the other pilot would never hear the chime.
Sorry CID, I might not have been clear enough. At 10,000 feet cabin altitude a very loud horn goes off. Coupled with the noises of the decompression itself (whatever cause it may have been). The chime would be the other crew member calling the flight deck, and would not be heard over the rest of the noise. Hope that clears it up.
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett
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golden hawk
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b767jetmec
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Just a little insight on the mechanical`s behind the system...
From the B737-200 AMM regarding flight crew oxygen:
quote:(2) The addition of air may be cut off by turning the oxygen selection lever to 100% OXYGEN. When this lever is in NORMAL OXYGEN, air enters through the air inlet port and the required amount is added to the oxygen to form the correct air/oxygen mixture. The air flow metering aneroid assembly provides the correct amount of air for the mixture at every altitude. This aneroid automatically provides 100% oxygen at altitudes of over 32,000 feet.
(3) The regulator incorporates a pressure breathing aneroid assembly to provide automatic pressure breathing at altitudes above 30,000 feet. This device exerts force on a diaphragm and opens a valve allowing oxygen to flow to the demand diaphragm chamber. The demand diaphragm is thus pressure loaded, and acts on the demand valve, building up positive pressure at the regulator outlet as the altitude is increased.
R.I.P.
From the B737-200 AMM regarding flight crew oxygen:
quote:(2) The addition of air may be cut off by turning the oxygen selection lever to 100% OXYGEN. When this lever is in NORMAL OXYGEN, air enters through the air inlet port and the required amount is added to the oxygen to form the correct air/oxygen mixture. The air flow metering aneroid assembly provides the correct amount of air for the mixture at every altitude. This aneroid automatically provides 100% oxygen at altitudes of over 32,000 feet.
(3) The regulator incorporates a pressure breathing aneroid assembly to provide automatic pressure breathing at altitudes above 30,000 feet. This device exerts force on a diaphragm and opens a valve allowing oxygen to flow to the demand diaphragm chamber. The demand diaphragm is thus pressure loaded, and acts on the demand valve, building up positive pressure at the regulator outlet as the altitude is increased.
R.I.P.
Boeing just does it better!
The voice recorder is missing, apparently:
"ATHENS, Greece (AP) — Officials on Tuesday said they had found only the exterior container of the cockpit voice recorder from a Cypriot airliner crash that killed 121 people, hampering investigative efforts into the accident’s cause."
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2005/ ... 53-ap.html
"ATHENS, Greece (AP) — Officials on Tuesday said they had found only the exterior container of the cockpit voice recorder from a Cypriot airliner crash that killed 121 people, hampering investigative efforts into the accident’s cause."
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2005/ ... 53-ap.html
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bob sacamano
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There is interesting new information available in the German media (CNN affiliate n.tv), citing the chief investigator and the Greek defense ministry who rely on the now released testimony of the F16 fighter pilots:
The jet fighter pilots took a picture of the cockpit at 1118hrs, showing the co-pilot slumped over the control panel. 30 Minutes before the crash (i.e.: 1134 hrs), two people entered the cockpit of the stricken airliner, allegedly two flight attendants, the male with pilot training, the female his fiancée. The guy's name is reported as Andreas Prodromou, 25 years old, his fiancée is said to be one Haris Charalambous. The theory at this point is that they were able to survive on portable oxygen available to F/A in the cabin. The F16 fighter pilots took a picture of what was going on in the cockpit at 1140hrs.
The aircraft then left its holding pattern 23 minutes (1141hrs) before the crash, heading in the direction of ATH. Interpretation is that the F/A switched the AP off. The aircraft descended to approx. 10.000ft and then to 2.500ft (other news say 9.000ft and 7.000ft) over the sea. At that altitude, it started heading towards ATH airport and started slowly climbing again as if the F/A noticed he was too low.
The interpretation at this point is that the aircraft ran out of fuel, only a few miles out of ATH airport, and crashed at Grammatikos.
This fits into the information that near the cockpit wreckage a female F/A - although her name is given as Louiza Vouteri - The male F/A obviously was not found there. He was allegedly a fully licenced commerical pilot who was working as a F/A because he could not find a job as a pilot (other sources say he had taken "flight lessons").
Other news:
One passenger, a five year old boy, survived the crash with severe head injuries but died from inhaling toxic fume after the crash (this according to FT Germany).
Here's a picture of the two F/A's in a Swedish article.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/s ... 28,00.html
The jet fighter pilots took a picture of the cockpit at 1118hrs, showing the co-pilot slumped over the control panel. 30 Minutes before the crash (i.e.: 1134 hrs), two people entered the cockpit of the stricken airliner, allegedly two flight attendants, the male with pilot training, the female his fiancée. The guy's name is reported as Andreas Prodromou, 25 years old, his fiancée is said to be one Haris Charalambous. The theory at this point is that they were able to survive on portable oxygen available to F/A in the cabin. The F16 fighter pilots took a picture of what was going on in the cockpit at 1140hrs.
The aircraft then left its holding pattern 23 minutes (1141hrs) before the crash, heading in the direction of ATH. Interpretation is that the F/A switched the AP off. The aircraft descended to approx. 10.000ft and then to 2.500ft (other news say 9.000ft and 7.000ft) over the sea. At that altitude, it started heading towards ATH airport and started slowly climbing again as if the F/A noticed he was too low.
The interpretation at this point is that the aircraft ran out of fuel, only a few miles out of ATH airport, and crashed at Grammatikos.
This fits into the information that near the cockpit wreckage a female F/A - although her name is given as Louiza Vouteri - The male F/A obviously was not found there. He was allegedly a fully licenced commerical pilot who was working as a F/A because he could not find a job as a pilot (other sources say he had taken "flight lessons").
Other news:
One passenger, a five year old boy, survived the crash with severe head injuries but died from inhaling toxic fume after the crash (this according to FT Germany).
Here's a picture of the two F/A's in a Swedish article.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/s ... 28,00.html
Use the cabin O2, there are 4 masks per 3 seats and I believe there are also drop down masks in the lav on the Classics.whipline wrote:This has defintely been a bad year for aviation. It really hit home when I saw pictures of the CL-215 dropping water on the 737 crash site. I couldn't help but think of the poor pilots who lost the tail of their CL-215 fighting a fire a short time before or the people in the back of the 37 flying around for a few hours knowing they were done for.
The armoured doors have a keypad whereby you can gain access to the flight deck if the flight attendants were still conscious. The problem is you wouldn't have that much time at 35,000 feet without oxygen to do it. I too am not a big fan of the doors but not for the reasons listed. As a crew we are always trained to handle emergencies together. I have often wondered what would happen if one of the flight crew members was in the back taking a washroom break or fetching a snack and there was a rapid decompression. The normal way to get back into the flight deck is to chime the other pilot and get them to open the door. During a rapid decompression the other pilot would never hear the chime. So the only way to get back in would be to use the key pad, which if you knew what you were doing would take about 20 secs to get the door open. Unfortunately at 35,000 your useful consciousness would be gone before you got back in your seat and doned the oxygen mask.
At any rate its a tradgedy, RIP.
Condolences to the relatives of these air disasters it is a sad day for one of the safest modes of transportation in the world.
Not to minimize air crashes but think of the 300 or so people that will be killed in car crashes today in North America…another tragedy mostly preventable.
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golden hawk
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golden hawk
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