PML reorganization

[gtanorth]

Seems like an HR nightmare. What do you tell someone who didn't get hired when they had the same qualifications as their colleague. There's a reason why companies don't tell you why you didn't get the job. It opens a massive can of worms and and even lawsuits.
I'm very curious to see if they will publicly address their diversity hire policies since it can be a controversial topic.

They don’t hire simply based on qualifications. That is where the interview comes in. They don’t have to say anything other than yes or no. The visibility they offer in this program relates to exp, education etc not how you stack up in the video interview, in person interview, etc.

[skypirate88]

Positiverate27, take a look at the memo again. There is a line that says this program will allow for quicker processing of candidates from the original video interview.

It isn't very specific, but hopefully that is an indication that guys like me and you won't have to start the process all over again.

I interpret it a little differently. I believe it means the timeline between any candidate’s video interview to completion of the whole process will be streamlined from its previous form, but there will be no preference given to folks who have already done a video. I guess we’ll wait and see.

Fair enough. Perhaps a little more clarity will come in the days ahead. For now, we wait....

[PostmasterGeneral]

Positiverate27, take a look at the memo again. There is a line that says this program will allow for quicker processing of candidates from the original video interview.

It isn't very specific, but hopefully that is an indication that guys like me and you won't have to start the process all over again.

I interpret it a little differently. I believe it means the timeline between any candidate’s video interview to completion of the whole process will be streamlined from its previous form, but there will be no preference given to folks who have already done a video. I guess we’ll wait and see.

That's exactly it. What is meant by "streamlining" is that your time between video interview and invite/PFO will be much shorter. Instead of having to wait upwards of a year for some of us.

[PositiveRate27]

It sounds like they are moving it toward what it should have been in the first place. Hopefully the next round goes smoother for people who are applying for the first time.

[PositiveRate27]

It sounds like they are moving it toward what it should have been in the first place. Hopefully the next round goes smoother for people who are applying for the first time.

[co-joe]

It sounds like they are moving it toward what it should have been in the first place. Hopefully the next round goes smoother for people who are applying for the first time.

It sounds like they are moving the goal post...again.

I like your optimism.

[AvifiskAlly]

It sounds like they are moving it toward what it should have been in the first place. Hopefully the next round goes smoother for people who are applying for the first time.

It sounds like they are moving the goal post...again.

I like your optimism.

The first round went incredibly smooth for the people that AC wanted to hire, anyone who got caught in a big delay simply didn't score high enough to get hired at the time. The new PML lets the candidate see how they compare to the other applicants so you dont have to sit there and wonder why the phone is not ringing. Last time it didn't ring because they didn't want you "yet". The two things that can change are 1 they lower the score to get in 2 you get more qualified either by having more time, more PIC more education and so on. So the old process worked great for well qualified people the new process will work great for everybody.

[Victory]

So now you have to do 2 years minimum at Express? What was it before? Didn't I read people getting interviews in under a year?

[AvifiskAlly]

So now you have to do 2 years minimum at Express? What was it before? Didn't I read people getting interviews in under a year?

Before it was just seniority based, the problem was that a lot of people had their seniority number come up when they were under "ideally" qualified. This led to a higher % of PFO than what AC and Express wanted. The new system is qualification based with "preference" given to those that have had 2 years at the same Express. The new program gives you full visibility around how you rank and how competitive you are.

[iflyroads]

So would you be able to apply with say 1.5 years at an exp, and expect to be interviewed when you hit the 2 year mark?

I know a few guys on the last PML at various exp who had less than 2 years at the carrier and interviewed around the 2 year mark

[altiplano]

Here's my 0.02...

Don't overthink it, as someone mentioned "the goal posts move again".

That's more or less the truth. AC will change the way and from where they hire again and again as it suits them.

But whatever list/deal/program you think there is today, the way that works is:

- take the best job you can get express or other
- build a diverse background of experience
- command/large aircraft/airlines/jets/training
- show continued interest and update your resume a couple times a year.

Lots of express and non-express pilots in the groundschools from what I can see...

[gtanorth]

So would you be able to apply with say 1.5 years at an exp, and expect to be interviewed when you hit the 2 year mark?

I know a few guys on the last PML at various exp who had less than 2 years at the carrier and interviewed around the 2 year mark

Yes I think that is the way it works. They want you to apply early so you can see how you stack up and what you are missing so in those 2 years you can prepare yourself. It’s not just hours it’s education, being in the training Dept, building pic when it means having a worse schedule than you had as an FO. I think they did a great job laying it out there and are giving unprecedented visibility on the process.

[iflyroads]

So would you be able to apply with say 1.5 years at an exp, and expect to be interviewed when you hit the 2 year mark?

I know a few guys on the last PML at various exp who had less than 2 years at the carrier and interviewed around the 2 year mark

Yes I think that is the way it works. They want you to apply early so you can see how you stack up and what you are missing so in those 2 years you can prepare yourself. It’s not just hours it’s education, being in the training Dept, building pic when it means having a worse schedule than you had as an FO. I think they did a great job laying it out there and are giving unprecedented visibility on the process.

Thanks!

[GATRKGA]

Straight from the document

Air Canada will value a candidate’s flying experience in a number of ways. Some of the
experience deemed desirable includes multi-engine time, experience in a two-crew
environment, Pilot in Command time, time on an aircraft with a max ramp weight in excess of
15,000 kg, etc;
- Air Canada prefers applicants who have completed post-secondary education. They will
generally provide preference to those who have completed a 4-year degree program over a 3
year diploma program and so on. Air Canada will also provide preference to candidates who
have completed an aviation related post-secondary program which included a multi-engine IFR
and Commercial Pilot License.
- Preference will be given to candidates who have flown a minimum of two consecutive years
with their current Express carrier
- Air Canada values military experience
- Air Canada values experience as a Flight Instructor or Check Pilot in 705 operations or with the
Air Force; and
- Air Canada values English/French bilingualism

Here's my 2 cents.

Air Canada has made it clear in the last PML announcement, that they want people with multi engine, two crew, pic, on anything larger than a 1900. Dash 8 MRW hovers around 19 tonnes. This all of a sudden removes the stigma that having Jet time, or Jet PIC time will be valued over and beyond Dash 8/Q400 time.

That being said, I understand there to be quite a preference given to guys with either Jet Pic time or Jet time, given the positions that are opening. Especially the 737 Max situation. This means Jazz CRJ Captains, Sky Regional ERJ Captains, and Air Georgian CRJ Captains are likely the positions that AC would love to hire, followed by FO's. Provided they meet other requirements. You could have a Dash 8 captain, with a degree sitting slightly higher on the matrix than a Sky Regional E175 Captain with no degree. But that same E175 Captain with Check Airman / Instructing / Training Department exp may sit higher or equal to Dash 8 Captain with a degree. Sky 175 Training Captain likely sits higher than Dash 8 Captain no Degree. See the pattern?

So I would say, while this document is rather transparent. If you don't have a degree, take the jet job, work up to captain asap. I think it will work better in your favor than a seat lock on a Dash 8-300. Unless of course you want to be out west, then I guess you pick your apples and oranges accordingly and hope for a CRJ in YVR/YYC.

[AvifiskAlly]

Straight from the document

Air Canada will value a candidate’s flying experience in a number of ways. Some of the
experience deemed desirable includes multi-engine time, experience in a two-crew
environment, Pilot in Command time, time on an aircraft with a max ramp weight in excess of
15,000 kg, etc;
- Air Canada prefers applicants who have completed post-secondary education. They will
generally provide preference to those who have completed a 4-year degree program over a 3
year diploma program and so on. Air Canada will also provide preference to candidates who
have completed an aviation related post-secondary program which included a multi-engine IFR
and Commercial Pilot License.
- Preference will be given to candidates who have flown a minimum of two consecutive years
with their current Express carrier
- Air Canada values military experience
- Air Canada values experience as a Flight Instructor or Check Pilot in 705 operations or with the
Air Force; and
- Air Canada values English/French bilingualism

Here's my 2 cents.

Air Canada has made it clear in the last PML announcement, that they want people with multi engine, two crew, pic, on anything larger than a 1900. Dash 8 MRW hovers around 19 tonnes. This all of a sudden removes the stigma that having Jet time, or Jet PIC time will be valued over and beyond Dash 8/Q400 time.

That being said, I understand there to be quite a preference given to guys with either Jet Pic time or Jet time, given the positions that are opening. Especially the 737 Max situation. This means Jazz CRJ Captains, Sky Regional ERJ Captains, and Air Georgian CRJ Captains are likely the positions that AC would love to hire, followed by FO's. Provided they meet other requirements. You could have a Dash 8 captain, with a degree sitting slightly higher on the matrix than a Sky Regional E175 Captain with no degree. But that same E175 Captain with Check Airman / Instructing / Training Department exp may sit higher or equal to Dash 8 Captain with a degree. Sky 175 Training Captain likely sits higher than Dash 8 Captain no Degree. See the pattern?

So I would say, while this document is rather transparent. If you don't have a degree, take the jet job, work up to captain asap. I think it will work better in your favor than a seat lock on a Dash 8-300. Unless of course you want to be out west, then I guess you pick your apples and oranges accordingly and hope for a CRJ in YVR/YYC.

The point system is a bit more complex. For example it values scheduled service time more than charter on the same AC type. You will notice a very important "etc" in the PMA from AC in the time/equipment criteria. The same is said for jet vs TP, it's all about points. Same for education, same for getting involved beyond flying the line with training or checking. I think the best way to look at it is to break down the 100 or so things that make up the point system and see how many you tick. It's 100% about the accumulation of points compared to your peer group.

[Victory]

The size of the jet also matters. There are military guys coming from fighter jets or the Snowbirds that are considered to have "zero" jet time. Not all of their sims are Level D so unless they want to go do circuits with you (they don't) you need to have jet time above a certain weight to crew those positions.

[Air.Field]

The problem remains the same, it's HR based hiring, not pilot based. Regardless of experience, a degree/diploma will be favoured. That system is flawed. Oh but having a degree shows you can learn you say. So does numerous type ratings. So does experience of first hand knowledge of flying an aircraft after thousands and thousands of hours. End of the day they can hire the pilots they want, but basing on a HR system means weaker ones get through, those pilots make great for a desk, just not a sky desk.

[co-joe]

To me the real question is; did the 80% express number change? Or might we see AC hire 500 WJ pilots now?

[gtanorth]

Air Canada Express carrier pilots will continue to be compared to their peers at their own carrier, as
opposed to being compared to the much larger non-Express carrier pool of applicants. Air Canada will
favor those candidates who have stayed with one regional carrier rather than those who switch
employers, whether within the Air Canada family or outside. Pilots who elect to move from one Express
carrier may do so, however the above-mentioned two-year minimum will reset. Air Canada is
committed to hiring a substantial amount of our pilots from our Air Canada Express carriers, and this
path remains the best way to progress to a pilot career with Air Canada.

[Inverted2]

To me the real question is; did the 80% express number change? Or might we see AC hire 500 WJ pilots now?

They were careful to not make any # amounts. "Substantial" is what the term is. I would imagine it will continue as is. Once the express carriers run low on pilots they won't take as many to AC. Why? Because it will involve their own flights being cancelled and if you hire WJ/Encore/etc pilots you're only causing 1 training event versus 2 and hurting the competition at the same time.