Missing airplane on flight from Penticton to Edmonton

[waterdog]

Thanks for the update Notapilot1,

Keep us in the loop on how the search progresses, I cannot imagine what the family and friends are going through.

[RatherBeFlying]

The ACC and Parks Canada rightly will not release names of hut users as that's private information. You might consider putting together a list of questions and asking the ACC office to forward the list to the people who were booked in the hut, who can choose to reply through the ACC office or directly to you.

Day backcountry users, if any, usually register with Parks Canada in the avalanche season.

[anofly]

Did the folks at the hut see a plane? or just hear a plane? and what way was it going? i have read this all a few times and dont have that clear yet?
If the plane went by the hut once, "southbound" there is not much (other than a cell ping) to keep folks looking along the trans canada? would it not make sense if they did not hear it come back by the hut a second time, and it only went southbound by the hut , in this case the plane is south of the hut somewhere? south in that valley? or south and then tried to make it to the east? over the hills to golden?
i dont know enough about cell phone pings ,but if the cell phone is south of the hut, line of sight to the cell tower is tough.... unless its high up one of the sides, in that valley?

[Notapilot1]

The people at Wheeler just heard the plane, they didn't see it. All areas around Wheeler have been searched. We did discuss the possibility of them carrying on to Golden but to clear that next mountain, they would have had to go above 7000 feet and would have shown back up on radar.

Sorry for the lack of updates, we are still spending our every "free" minute looking into things.

[RatherBeFlying]

An aircraft at 7000' in that area will not be visible to radar if there's a mountain in between. Sir Donald is over 10,000, about 800' above the glacier. Radar coverage depends on the location and elevation of the radar and the terrain between.

If the aircraft was heard at Wheeler, but not at the top of the pass, the probability increases that it remained close by or turned South. Was there any observation of the cloud cover and ceiling South of Wheeler?

That said the trees around Wheeler are impressively tall and dense. It would be difficult to spot an aircraft that fell into that kind of tree cover. Sadly many searches in BC mountains have come up empty-handed.

TCA 810 flew into Mt. Slesse moments after contact was lost on radar. It was six months before hikers happened across the wreckage.

[burhead1]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3977873/fami ... paign=2015

[Notapilot1]

The photo was looked into further and turned out to be nothing of interest. I believe the search has been concluded until Spring due to the large amounts of snow that has fallen in the area.

[pdw]

The photo was looked into further and turned out to be nothing of interest.

It's good to know it was checked out, thankyou for taking time to report back here. Looking at that photo provided an idea, how futile to look for a 'needle in a haystack' and then constantly deeper snow accumulation ...

[CpnCrunch]

It's good to know it was checked out, thankyou for taking time to report back here. Looking at that photo provided an idea, how futile to look for a 'needle in a haystack' and then constantly deeper snow accumulation ...

There were thousands of drone photos to go through, so it definitely was a needle in a haystack. Out of those photos there were a handful that looked like they might contain some wreckage, but nothing was found on the ground.

cnpc managed to get some photos from the various webcams along the highway from the time, and the weather had definitely closed in with low cloud in the Rogers Pass. It might be worth posting those photos here, just to give everyone an idea of what the weather can look like in the pass when there's only high cloud at Revelstoke.

[cncpc]

I will put them up tomorrow.

There is no actual evidence this aircraft ever went into the Pass. It was seen on the hill above Revelstoke on the last radar hit, but at that time,it was heading north. I know there was talk of a witness at Albert Canyon, but that witness is said to not be reliable and certainly cannot say it was that Mooney, or even the direction the aircraft was flying. Similarly, the fact that someone says they heard an airplane at Wheeler Hut doesn't mean it was this airplane, or wasn't a snowmobile up high.

There are reports of pings of cell phones after fuel exhaustion time. The phones supposedly pinged back to Fidelity Tower, about 30 miles south of the Pass Summit, and recently the same story of pings hitting a Tower around Three Valley Gap. So one of those stories isn't true, maybe both. As simple as it would seem, there is no official report of any kind of any pings that would help to locate this aircraft.

I spoke in the last few days with a Canadian living in Idaho. On the afternoon of this incident, he was snowmobiling in a group at Keystone Basin, about 30 north of Revelstoke on the Mica highway. They had stopped around 6000 feet due to heavy fog and impassible alder in the cutblocks and had stopped and built a fire. He distinctly heard the sound of an aircraft approaching, passing by very near, and then the sound slowly fading. The time was between 3:25 and 3:36, fixed by the time stamp on photographs taken of the fire at the time. The weather was good on the way up, with a ceiling of around 2000 feet, was the man's estimate. As they went up the mountain, they entered cloud base higher up, and were in thick cloud when they heard the aircraft. I asked the man if it was possible that the aircraft was not above them, but in the valley below, and now agrees that is more likely.

The time is consistent with the aircraft continuing north from the last radar hit at 3:13. Low level VFR seems quite possible and there is not really a plausible weather related accident if the flight continued up past the dam, into Valemount Arm, and to the Yellowhead and on out past Hinton, or cutoff through a couple of lower level routes about 30 south of Valemount and met up with the highway around Moose Lake. Blue River was showing something like 60 BKN and 110 OVC at that time. The next station, Edson, was reporting clear. If the aircraft crashed on this possible route, it is more likely that it would have had to do with problems of flying in the dark in mountains without night training or a rating.

Objectively, there is no evidence the aircraft has crashed. There is evidence two people are missing. Obviously, there is a strong reason to suspect the aircraft has crashed. but...

An awful lot of work was put into searching the Pass without any real evidence the aircraft ever went in there.

The weather was shite from the highway cams, but that's not to say an aircraft higher might not have had a different picture.

[Diadem]

It would make a lot more sense to head up towards the Yellowhead if they were on their way to Edmonton. I found it strange from the beginning that they would follow the Trans-Canada to Alberta and then make almost a 90 degree turn rather than taking the more direct route, which also has lower terrain.

[Notapilot1]

It would make a lot more sense to head up towards the Yellowhead if they were on their way to Edmonton. I found it strange from the beginning that they would follow the Trans-Canada to Alberta and then make almost a 90 degree turn rather than taking the more direct route, which also has lower terrain.

From what I have heard, following the Trans Canada was a normal route for most pilots?

[rookiepilot]

It would make a lot more sense to head up towards the Yellowhead if they were on their way to Edmonton. I found it strange from the beginning that they would follow the Trans-Canada to Alberta and then make almost a 90 degree turn rather than taking the more direct route, which also has lower terrain.

From what I have heard, following the Trans Canada was a normal route for most pilots?

Yes, that's correct, for an east west crossing, although some will take a short cut where the highway does a big half loop (I've done that). Following the TC more or less would be a prudent choice for most pilots.

[Diadem]

From what I have heard, following the Trans Canada was a normal route for most pilots?

It would be the normal route on an east-west routing, but from Penticton to Edmonton it would be pretty much a wash whether to take Rogers Pass or head up to the Yellowhead Pass; the Yellowhead is lower and wider, so for someone going to Edmonton it might be a better choice. Perhaps the plan was always to head up Kinbasket Lake towards the Yellowhead, or perhaps upon seeing the weather in Rogers Pass the pilot decided to try that way instead.

[cncpc]

It would make a lot more sense to head up towards the Yellowhead if they were on their way to Edmonton. I found it strange from the beginning that they would follow the Trans-Canada to Alberta and then make almost a 90 degree turn rather than taking the more direct route, which also has lower terrain.

From what I have heard, following the Trans Canada was a normal route for most pilots?

Yes, that's correct, although some will take a short cut where the highway does a big half loop (I've done that). Following the TC more or less would be a prudent choice for most pilots.

No it's not. If you have to follow the TC, it's not the prudent choice, unless the Yellowhead or Valemount Arm route is bad as well. It's may be 10 shorter, so on a CAVU day with light winds, it may be a marginally better choice.

[W5]

‘Metal detector you can put into the air’ will be used to search for couple in missing Edmonton-bound plane

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/metal-detec ... -1.3846756

[RatherBeFlying]

There's lots of shrapnel and unexploded shells in the Rogers Pass avalanche chutes that a magnetometer might pick up.

Aircraft are mostly aluminum.

I'd try out the magnetometer at an airport first to determine the detection range. Check with the airport operator first to see if they will allow a drone. Read up on Transport Canada regulations on drone operation.

[Diadem]

About a week ago, I got a message from a user who's been very active in this thread, which is titled "Missing Mooney", and all it says is "It's within a mile of two of Mabel Lake airport." There's no more context to it, and (s)he hasn't responded to my inquiry for more information, so I don't know if this is referring to the aircraft's location. I haven't found any news reports about this, and it almost seems like the message could be from the middle of a private discussion, so maybe it was accidentally sent to me for some reason. Perhaps someone from the Okanagan can suss out whether there's a basis for looking around Mabel Lake.

[anofly]

Maybe we need to determine what was this pilots normal route? assuming he had made the trip in the past?

[oldncold]

I 'd urge all those planing back country trips this summer into the Canadian Rockies , Purcell, and st Marys and Valhalla mountain ranges to keep an eye out. there are several families that need and appreciate some closure of lost loved ones. keep in mind that due to this winter high snow packs and possible avalanches along with any glacial movement the aircraft may have moved down slope ,as much several hundred feet.

If you are in a basin or bottom of a cirque look up those side of mountains. not to be cruel,or morbid but bears ,cougars and other critters are emerging to forage the high country, lets find these planes before they do .