Bargaining idea

[digits_]

Are the new hires today still getting the DB pension?

No.
All B scale are on a DC plan.

Ineresting.

And that comment at the top says a lot about what type of person you are, not only did you take the job but now you’re making thinly veiled threats about my DB pension.

So you/senior guys vote to make sure the junior guys will not get the good DB pension, and then you are angry those junior guys consider doing something about your DB pension? You sir, are a hypocrite.

[av8ts]

Don’t forget to tell AC during your interview that you want to be on the DB plan, and if not then your going to try to take it away from those who have it.

[prop2jet]

Are the new hires today still getting the DB pension?

No.
All B scale are on a DC plan.

Ineresting.

And that comment at the top says a lot about what type of person you are, not only did you take the job but now you’re making thinly veiled threats about my DB pension.

So you/senior guys vote to make sure the junior guys will not get the good DB pension, and then you are angry those junior guys consider doing something about your DB pension? You sir, are a hypocrite.

Digits,
Perhaps you should educate yourself. No one gets DB plans anymore.

The system in place today has been set up as a revolving door. This is not a career company and I would say that if you asked any prospective new hire if they are applying to Jazz because they want to make a career here I would suggest that their sights are on AC.

The current CA has set the stage for Division within the ranks of the pilot group and has played well into Managements game plan.

The solution is not to ask those on the A scale to take the cuts but rather to eliminate the B scale. With respect to pensions, that will not change. DC is here to stay as it is everywhere else. All that can be done on that front is to ensure they are improved.

[digits_]

Perhaps you should educate yourself. No one gets DB plans anymore.

mbav8r seems to be afraid they are taking his away, which implies he is getting one?
If he doesn't, this part of the discussion is indeed a moot point.

The solution is not to ask those on the A scale to take the cuts but rather to eliminate the B scale. With respect to pensions, that will not change. DC is here to stay as it is everywhere else. All that can be done on that front is to ensure they are improved.

Oh absolutely. I only have an issue with 2 different payscales withing the same company. Of course it is better if the B would increase to the A scale so there is only one left. But if for whatever reason that is impossible, it would only be fair the A scale would take a slight pay cut to get everyone back on the same scale.

I don't advocate screwing one group over to pay another, I am against that. But I am not surpsied the old "screwed over" group brings this up as a possible alternative to get "even".

[Topoff]

I'm all for hearing ideas about how we can get a more livable wage for FOs between now and 2025. The FO position at Jazz is a good job, that's why I signed up for it, but the pay is embarrassing. A wage of $3100 a month to fly for an airline is not enough for the task and responsibility you are given. Regardless if its your first job or fifth or what someone else made at their first job whenever that was. And, expecting pilots to upgrade as soon as they can to make ends meet and expecting that everyone is going to do this is unrealistic. Like someone else already said, about 50% of us are going to be in the right seat, on the B scale for maybe a very long time. I like my base, I like my type and honestly I don't think Id be ready to move across the country on a different type in a different city, just to make some more money. (Even with +4000 hrs, +2000 multi pic 2 crew) Even with all of the great upgrade training I would get. Maybe a few years in the right seat will make me a better captain? I want to stay where I am and do the best job I can but i'd also like to be paid for the responsibility, experience, education that we all have. I have no intention in going to AC and another 7 years is going to be a long wait but I'll tough it out if I have to and we cant get something done in the meantime. Just looking at the scale, 7 years, 61.33/hr, 5100/month, $60,716/yr.

[FL-280]

With many professions (doctors, lawyers etc) your starting pay is based on experience. Most of the f/o’s I’m flying with are making twice the pay and flying half the hours (stick time) than what I made with the same experience. That’s 4 times what I was was making 20 years ago. Maybe instead of an A and B scale we should just base pay on your actual hours.

You have to be kidding.... You guys will make up anything to keep the top scale intact and DB pension until you retire.
Comparing wages now and twenty years ago, thats plain stupid.Is a first year f/o with let's say 1000 hours supposed to feel super lucky because he has a 38k per year job?
Mind you some of them are flying jets in High Density airspace and putting up with your BS.

With more and more groundschools at AC going by with plenty of Encore pilots on them, it's looking like the FPMA is crap and we will be around for a while, So equal work should be equal pay.

Thank you for displaying exactly what embodies the sense of entitlement people keep talking about!
10 years ago, you would of been scrubbing toilets and cleaning the boss’s car while waiting to load another freighter of pop and chips, living in buttfuck nowhere for a lot less than 38,000.
Can I point something out to you, YOU DIDNT HAVE TO TAKE THE JOB!!!!! And that comment at the top says a lot about what type of person you are, not only did you take the job but now you’re making thinly veiled threats about my DB pension.
I’m willing to wager you will be turned down by AC, they will see you for what you are and unfortunately that means we’re stuck with you, good luck though

My attitude has changed now because I just realised I could be scrubbing toilets...

I’m willing to wager you’re Air Ontario and have been living miserable since the Piché clause when AC was never going to happen.
You’re right; wont be going to AC; family time is worth much more than years of junior lifestyle at mainline with all the hiring they have been doing. Music is about to stop boys; just turn on CNN.....

SO, yes you are stuck with me and I really hope you’re around after 2025 so my / our vote just pisses the hell out of you.

[prop2jet]

It has been said over and over again. All those who signed up to work at Jazz on the current CA (Post 2015) knew exactly what they signed up for.

When this CA was introduced to the membership all the focus of discussion was on the PML. The negotiating committee/MEC presented this as a crisis situation. The Company needed to have a decision and it was tied to the PML. Interestingly enough, after the PML subscription was closed it was opened up for more to join in however you could not opt out. As I recall there seemed to be more focus on discussing the PML than changes to the body of the CA, the repercussions of creating a B scale etc. Hard to argue the point when the competition to your work is paying poverty wages as well.

We are here today with a potential real mess in the making - loss of unity among the pilot group. Go to an LEC meeting today and you will here all the stats that demonstrate that after essentially a 3 year period a B scale pilot is close to being on the same financial track as an A scale pilot who spent 8 years as an FO. All contingent on getting that upgrade and seeing movement. Those upgrades are slowing down...

[Mart]

It has been said over and over again. All those who signed up to work at Jazz on the current CA (Post 2015) knew exactly what they signed up for.
(...)

Bold and untrue statement. New 2015 CA was ratify somewhere in January or February. And Effective July 1st july 2015. But Jazz held GS in March the same year. So I'm pretty sure those in the March to July GS didn't have the final wording in hand when they sign up. Also PMA wording was completed 2 years later or so. So for those who signup to Jazz at AC request for the AC mobility didn't have the detail of the mobility agreement when they sign in. So yes I would tend to agree they have the right to be mad today.

But again we are heading the wrong direction. The problem is all about equal work equal pay that is the basic of our workforce in Canada and should remain. Jazz open the path to discrimination in our rank and thats is totally unacceptable. ALPA and Jazz where proud to go in the media saying they sign a record 10 years CA with competitive wage but they never mention they would discriminate a full generation of pilots.

I don't care about how you had it hard in the past and you think because of that everyone else should go trough the same hard path, my grandfather died mining without adequate protective equipment will I ask the new generation of miner to do the same? Some of your logic seems to go that way.

I don't care that you have DB pension plan, good for you you were able to cash out on this when economic was going through the roof. But now that you you know these plan are long gone and never to come back, you should show a bit more respect for those you will still be working towards their 70 to fill in your pension IF it tanked.

I don't care about the 37K first year pay, like it was said before, unfortunately it is the standard wage in Canada for regional aviation. And also like someone said before you knew the wage when you sign up. I was able to provide for my kids and have a house with far lower wage when I started my career, so seeing today kids living with their parents, but having iPhone, iPad, iCar, iTravel, iName It, I cannot agree with their complaints. At the end of the day it's all about choice. Average Canadian wage is 37 700$/years. So I think out of school pilots who complain on entry level pay should look around a bit.

And for those of you who still continue to dream about a theory that if nobody sign up, the wage would increase. You are badly educate on how the system works. Again, there is far less job available then their is human able to work on the planet, that is a known fact. The sooner you understand this the better you will use your voting power in the future, those who can change the system is and will always be those in a controlling position or in a position to vote. And if you still believe in your theory why did you sign up for a crappy PML to go for low entry level wage again at AC. If you had voted with your feet like you said within a short times AC would have need to increase it's wage and start a ripple effect on Canadian market. Instead of this 700 of Jazz pilots forfeit their pension plan, their +80k/years wage on average and more then 3 weeks vacation to go fly a big shiny jet for 55k/year no vacation for the first year and of course start all over again schedule wise.

EQUAL WORK, EQUAL PAY! it's all I care for right now and ALPA should have been all over this and it should have been all over in the media when the CA was sign, just like it is in the US market and elsewhere in the world. How a company can easily promote discrimination based on a date of hire like this is silly. And when 2025 comes will be able to work all together to really improve the Canadian pilot working condition, there is still a lot to be done schedule wise and in other area like experience recognition.

Regional flying is not and should not be considered a stepping stone. There will be always a need for regional flying and there will be always pilots who rather fly shorter leg and be home every night instead of doing crazy red eye flights or living the jet lag dreams. And if AC wants it's provider to be a stepping stone for mainline then they should step in the game for real and implement a real flow through or a national seniority list like it was attempted before. Not this stupid PMA worthless list.

[rudder]

There is a suggestion that Jazz has placed hundreds of pilots on some type of permanent and all encompassing b scale. Is that in fact the case? Every pilot hired at Jazz has the same scheduling rules and benefits. Every pilot hired at Jazz can reach the top of the pay scale. Meanwhile, at AC there is an institutional reduced pay scale for any pilot that operates a Rouge aircraft. And any pilot operating a Rouge aircraft does so with most of the scheduling rules waived. So, if there is a true example of a b scale in Canada then it would be what is in place at AC.

Both AC and Jazz have appallingly low new-hire pay rates that extend for 4 years. That is far longer term on reduced new-hire pay than any other North American carriers (Captain upgrades excepted). Industry standard pay is 60-67% of CA pay for FO after year 1.

Both AC and Jazz have terminated new-hire subscription to existing pilot DB Plans. New-hire subscription to DB Plans has been terminated at almost all North American carriers. AC has done a better job in terms of a replacement pension plan for new-hires (superior benefit). However, the fact is that 99% of AC new-hire pilots will retire at AC and likely less than 33% of new-hire pilots at Jazz will retire at Jazz.

The pay upside at Jazz owing to status pay is that the CA pay rate for 37/50 seat aircraft is very high by industry standard (currency exchange rates excepted). CA pay for 76/78 seat aircraft is on par with industry standard with very high end rates for Q400 pilots.

It would appear that the AC commercial strategy going forward is to repatriate flying from Express using mainline resources. In the short term that is using A319 lift deployed at Rouge. A319 leases are being secured/extended on very favourable terms. In the longer term, the arrival of the C-series will accelerate Express flying replacement under the ACPA RRA provisions. AC is not currently a customer for the smaller CS100 but that may change. The accelerated retirement schedule for the E190’s is a sign that AC wants to migrate to most efficient fleet sooner rather than later.

AC can get away with poor new-hire pay as the pilot application drawer will always be overflowing due to long term compensation potential. Jazz competes with many other carriers for finite entry level pilot resources. Offering low ball new-hire pay in exchange for either a rapid upgrade (if qualified) or an opportunity for an AC interview (if qualified AND competitive) is a strategy that may not be sustainable.

The sooner that all airline pilots in Canada coalesce under one representational umbrella the sooner that pilot pay, work rules, and benefits can be removed as a management tool for cost competitiveness.

[prop2jet]

It has been said over and over again. All those who signed up to work at Jazz on the current CA (Post 2015) knew exactly what they signed up for.
(...)

Bold and untrue statement. New 2015 CA was ratify somewhere in January or February. And Effective July 1st july 2015. But Jazz held GS in March the same year. So I'm pretty sure those in the March to July GS didn't have the final wording in hand when they sign up. Also PMA wording was completed 2 years later or so. So for those who signup to Jazz at AC request for the AC mobility didn't have the detail of the mobility agreement when they sign in. So yes I would tend to agree they have the right to be mad today.

But again we are heading the wrong direction. The problem is all about equal work equal pay that is the basic of our workforce in Canada and should remain. Jazz open the path to discrimination in our rank and thats is totally unacceptable. ALPA and Jazz where proud to go in the media saying they sign a record 10 years CA with competitive wage but they never mention they would discriminate a full generation of pilots.

I don't care about how you had it hard in the past and you think because of that everyone else should go trough the same hard path, my grandfather died mining without adequate protective equipment will I ask the new generation of miner to do the same? Some of your logic seems to go that way.

I don't care that you have DB pension plan, good for you you were able to cash out on this when economic was going through the roof. But now that you you know these plan are long gone and never to come back, you should show a bit more respect for those you will still be working towards their 70 to fill in your pension IF it tanked.

I don't care about the 37K first year pay, like it was said before, unfortunately it is the standard wage in Canada for regional aviation. And also like someone said before you knew the wage when you sign up. I was able to provide for my kids and have a house with far lower wage when I started my career, so seeing today kids living with their parents, but having iPhone, iPad, iCar, iTravel, iName It, I cannot agree with their complaints. At the end of the day it's all about choice. Average Canadian wage is 37 700$/years. So I think out of school pilots who complain on entry level pay should look around a bit.

And for those of you who still continue to dream about a theory that if nobody sign up, the wage would increase. You are badly educate on how the system works. Again, there is far less job available then their is human able to work on the planet, that is a known fact. The sooner you understand this the better you will use your voting power in the future, those who can change the system is and will always be those in a controlling position or in a position to vote. And if you still believe in your theory why did you sign up for a crappy PML to go for low entry level wage again at AC. If you had voted with your feet like you said within a short times AC would have need to increase it's wage and start a ripple effect on Canadian market. Instead of this 700 of Jazz pilots forfeit their pension plan, their +80k/years wage on average and more then 3 weeks vacation to go fly a big shiny jet for 55k/year no vacation for the first year and of course start all over again schedule wise.

EQUAL WORK, EQUAL PAY! it's all I care for right now and ALPA should have been all over this and it should have been all over in the media when the CA was sign, just like it is in the US market and elsewhere in the world. How a company can easily promote discrimination based on a date of hire like this is silly. And when 2025 comes will be able to work all together to really improve the Canadian pilot working condition, there is still a lot to be done schedule wise and in other area like experience recognition.

Regional flying is not and should not be considered a stepping stone. There will be always a need for regional flying and there will be always pilots who rather fly shorter leg and be home every night instead of doing crazy red eye flights or living the jet lag dreams. And if AC wants it's provider to be a stepping stone for mainline then they should step in the game for real and implement a real flow through or a national seniority list like it was attempted before. Not this stupid PMA worthless list.

The first couple of classes on the new CA were I concede the only group justifiably burned by the terms and conditions of the new CA.

The PMA/PML whatever you want to call it is a creation of the Management of AC. The first PML was incorporated into our CA as an LOU - something I frankly take issue with given that the negots committee was not involved in its creation. ACPA had their 2 cents input when it came down to the deferral language, and that came about post ratification if I recall. The current PML in place has been again devised by AC with no input by either ACPA or ALPA.

As to my DB... pension, No B scale pilot makes any financial contribution to it. You have your own DC plan. The DB plan is only as good as the Company stays in business and is fully funded - which it currently is not.

As to your desire for EQUAL PAY for EQUAL work... Are you suggesting that a Day 1 pilot should earn the same as a 25 year veteran?

[Ifly]

You guys are hilarious!

As a former Jazz, now AC guy I can tell you this...Jazz is still viewed as being too expensive. If guys like FL280 decide that they should have everything that the generations before had, that will lead you to one place...Jazz will cease to exist. AC is looking at bringing as much of the regional flying home as possible, and Georgian/Sky could likely handle the rest.

I'm sure someone in the corporate suite at AC, is reading this thread and drooling at the opportunity to pit the Jazz pilots against one another, vote themselves a big fat raise, so AC can end the contract once and for all!

There are plenty of opportunities in aviation right now, both at home and abroad, if you're upset with the B scale and can't be bothered to understand how it came about, then vote with your feet and find something that pays you fairly. Threatening someone else's livelihood and pension is just childish.

[rudder]

You guys are hilarious!

As a former Jazz, now AC guy I can tell you this...Jazz is still viewed as being too expensive. If guys like FL280 decide that they should have everything that the generations before had, that will lead you to one place...Jazz will cease to exist. AC is looking at bringing as much of the regional flying home as possible, and Georgian/Sky could likely handle the rest.

I'm sure someone in the corporate suite at AC, is reading this thread and drooling at the opportunity to pit the Jazz pilots against one another, vote themselves a big fat raise, so AC can end the contract once and for all!

There are plenty of opportunities in aviation right now, both at home and abroad, if you're upset with the B scale and can't be bothered to understand how it came about, then vote with your feet and find something that pays you fairly. Threatening someone else's livelihood and pension is just childish.

Rumour is that GGN has a CPA to 2021. The GGN fleet is mostly comprised of aircraft that AC seemingly does not see as part of the long term Express fleet plan.

Rumour is that SKY has a CPA to 2027. The SKY fleet is entirely sub-leased from AC and there has been suggestions that the CPA can be modified/terminated on notice from AC (with compensation).

Fact is that CHR has a CPA to 12/2025 with a minimum fleet of 96 aircraft. Current Jazz fleet is 116. Planned reductions are 15 37 seat props and 10 50 seat jets. Planned additions are 5 Q400’s.

Fact is that AC has language from ACPA that allows for replacement of Express flying using Rouge and or RRA. Key factor for ACPA is that all flying positions are on mainline seniority list.

So, as AC implements it’s Express replacement strategy it has limited options until the post 2025 timeframe. It is also facing unionization of the labour forces at GGN and SKY. Ironically, the only Express carrier with known and predictable labour costs from 2018-2025 is Jazz.

While dramatic change in pay at Jazz is unlikely, the bottom line is that Jazz has less to be concerned about than other Express carriers when it comes to replacement by AC (until 2026).

[Mart]

As to your desire for EQUAL PAY for EQUAL work... Are you suggesting that a Day 1 pilot should earn the same as a 25 year veteran?

I never suggested such a dumb idea. Thats the purpose of a pay scale to factor in experience.

But there is no reason for a B scaller to have to show more then 20 years of experience to reach top scale while pre 2015 will do it in 17 years. There is also no reason for A scaller to upgrade at their current year of service while B scaller revert back to years 1 when they upgrade and even lower since Captain pay scale is also B scaled back by 4 years, meaning B scale Captain have to work 4 years to finally have the year 1 A scale Captain pay. Those are huge difference in treatment based only on your date of hire. Pure and unfair discrimination.

[atphat]

Those are huge difference in treatment based only on your date of hire. Pure and unfair discrimination.

Lol. Hope you don’t have an application in with AC. If so you’re going to hate it.

[KenoraPilot]

Those who want to flow through to AC go to WJE. Clearly they're being hired quite quickly and then you can stop complaining about how horrible it is a Jazz. We here at Jazz at least have a contract......the world is what it is.....not what we want it to be. (Sure we can change it with time, but its not a fairy tale. Everyone grow up) (my two cents)

[snowcone]

I maybe wrong, but does the new labour laws in Ontario state equal pay for equal work?

[av8ts]

I maybe wrong, but does the new labour laws in Ontario state equal pay for equal work?

Doesn’t apply to white males

[Mart]

Those are huge difference in treatment based only on your date of hire. Pure and unfair discrimination.

Lol. Hope you don’t have an application in with AC. If so you’re going to hate it.

No I don't, as long as AC don't recognize our experience either I won't send my resume in, you happy?

55k/years is a joke for the level of experience they ask for.

[Mart]

I maybe wrong, but does the new labour laws in Ontario state equal pay for equal work?

It does, just like other law in other province. But flying is done under federal rule and the federal working law are about a 100 years old. So no provision for this.

[digits_]

As a former Jazz, now AC guy I can tell you this...Jazz is still viewed as being too expensive. If guys like FL280 decide that they should have everything that the generations before had, that will lead you to one place...Jazz will cease to exist.

Then so be it. If a company is too expensive and wages need to be cut, then do it fairly across the board, don't let all the new lower paid hires take the extra pay cuts.
Junior guys don't have to finance the salry of the senior guys. The idea should be that experienced pilots operate more efficiently, make less mistakes and are thus worth the extra money. However, if they are loosing money when the high time captains are flying due to wages that are too high, then that needs to be adressed.

[snowcone]

As a former Jazz, now AC guy I can tell you this...Jazz is still viewed as being too expensive. If guys like FL280 decide that they should have everything that the generations before had, that will lead you to one place...Jazz will cease to exist.

Then so be it. If a company is too expensive and wages need to be cut, then do it fairly across the board, don't let all the new lower paid hires take the extra pay cuts.
Junior guys don't have to finance the salry of the senior guys. The idea should be that experienced pilots operate more efficiently, make less mistakes and are thus worth the extra money. However, if they are loosing money when the high time captains are flying due to wages that are too high, then that needs to be adressed.

Is that not what they did with the pml and retirement packages they offered?

[Rowdy]

Had another solid look at some numbers on my four hour yeg break. The a scalers will be barely 50% of the voting populace by may 1st. There are 8 of the 804 leaving for AC, and 11 retirements. Makes it pretty even at 782 b scale to 785 a scale. That doesn’t include the 14 new hires this month either. All b scale, but apparently they’re going to AC at some point so they don’t count.

Also. 149 a scale pilots on Leave. I count 11 on the b scale. So that makes 636 active a scale. How many of those 149 are going to be paying any attention to the daily operations and union activity and come out and vote?

I don’t see any MEC representation that’s b scale. YVR LEC elections coming in February. I won’t be voting for anyone unless they’re post Jan 2015 hire date. I’d also like to see ur negotiating team have an appropriate number of b scale pilots.

I found the union meetings in Yvr to Be dismissive of all our concerns. And a large focus on this PML garbage to which our MEC pays lip service even though they have no say or control over it. Nor should they. Which is fine by me as I refuse to take a pay cut to go botl at AC. I like it here and I’ve already made my plan to stay.

Mb I’m sad to see the attitude and rude And arrogant words from you. I’ll remember that you called us pricks when it comed time to vote.

I’m not here to take from the a scale group. I’m glad you have what you have. I just want fair representation and improvements for my peers. I want the classic cap gone. I want the classic airline language eliminated. I want the b scale eliminated and I want the scheduling language cleaned up.

Signed, someone who was in the hiring process before the contract change, whose file was lost TIL after it. Imagine that.

[nwopilot]

I always wondered this. What is the “classic airline”?

[mbav8r]

Do you guys read my posts, you will not outnumber the senior guys in a few years unless Jazz grows from the current fleet plan, again 832 voting pilots of 1179 needed post September 2018 is 66%.
Read your post again, how entitled are you? You want me and 831 other pilots to make your path to AC more palatable by taking another freeze, are you kidding me. The last two contracts I’ve voted on had NO INCREASE at the top, now from my ivory tower I’m supposed to sacrifice so your trip to AC is better for you. Nearly three decades in this industry with multiple lay offs and starting over but let me just take a little of the top for you, go @#$! yourself!
To the guys staying at Jazz, by choice or not, you will be on the same scale as me, when I get to the top scale, I stop climbing while you keep climbing to the exact same wage as me, not a penny less, why don’t you get that.
It took me 10 years to the left seat, I never once complained about it even though some upgrades could’ve been had if it weren’t for current Captains doing OT, then in 2010 we voted for unlimited OT, previously you could do no more than, I believe 3 days worth in a month, that alone held back upgrades by quit a few.
Life’s full of choices and living with the consequences and if those consequences are me being outnumbered and outvoted by a bunch of self entitled pricks, so be it but it’s not happening in the next few years, hopefully guys like yourself are long gone when that time comes.
BTW, if you vote for a senior pay cut, guess you’ll get to enjoy that yourself when you get there, or should we implement another scale, call it C. Anyone hired before 2015, paycut, anyone hired 2015-2018 gets a huge raise, 2018-on, nothing for you because well you don’t have enough votes.

Rowdy, I honestly couldn’t remember calling you pricks so I went back over my posts and found it, the entire post seem worth repeating. Please read it again.
And count again, when September rolls around we are predicted to be at the baseline of 1179, that number does not include pilots on leave. So it will be a pretty even spilt of A and B however all those pilots on leave are almost certainly going to be active participants in the voting process. 2010 contract, it was something like 97% of “eligible” voters voted 98% in favour of a strike. Do you think if the DB plan was at risk they will just sit around and see what happens.
Also, consider this, by the time you will have a chance on voting for anything of substance you will be here roughly 10 years, so you going to vote yourself a pay cut then, you’ll be a lot closer to the A scale pay than the B scale at that point, let’s see how that works out.
As for all the things you mentioned needing to be fixed, I agree but unless our competition ups the ante and unless we stop receiving applicants, most of those were necessary and not likely going to change. It might of been better if they actually started the classic airline and hired directly for it, if it weren’t for that language the classics were absolutely getting phased out, that was made clear by AC.
I’m not being arrogant Rowdy, I’m deeply offended that some who chose to accept these wages are now threatening to take away things we fought for over the years, I feel for you that they lost your file and put you on the new contract, I’ve been affected by a line drawn in the sand aswell, not to the degree as you but they took away my retirement passes because I was hired after a certain date, this was years after the date, I’m sure you’ve heard the stories.
Respectfully, the conversation stops as soon as you start with taking away from us(A) to give to you(B), I would support an initiative that pays for experience, so with your experience you would make more than a college grad new hire.
I once worked for a company that paid an extra 500 per month on the base pay for every thousand hours you had. What a novel idea, I wish more would do that.

[digits_]

Respectfully, the conversation stops as soon as you start with taking away from us(A) to give to you(B),

Jeesh.

"You" are the one that started the conversation.
"You" are the one who created the A vs B, when A was in the majority. Now that B is growing and could possibly become the majority, you cry foul?

I’m not being arrogant Rowdy, I’m deeply offended that some who chose to accept these wages are now threatening to take away things we fought for over the years,

What if the new hires intentionally accept the B scale, knowing that in a few year they'll be in the majority to improve the B scale? They might know exactly what they are getting into. It looks like just might not have known what you were getting yourself into when you created the B scale.

You are also an unsung hero, as you fought for wage increases for yourself (A scale). I'm sure the B scale people appreciate the sacrifices you made to increase the wages for yourself.

I really don't understand how you can keep defending the A vs B scale with some kind of moral superior attitude.