WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

[Alcoholism]

Amazing how easy it is to redirect hate towards fellow pilots instead of the company that hired them.

shut up, no one likes you

[eyebrow737]

I like him. You on the other hand smell like stale moldovian beer.

[Bede]

WJ has a scope agreement with the pilots and broke that scope agreement to find cheaper labor

Surely if WJ broke a scope agreement during the statutory freeze period, ALPA would have filed an Unfair Labour Practice complaint. They did not.

Yes they did. It was part of the counter complaint to the companys hiring ban complaint. You can't be negotiating a CBA and have an ongoing ULP complaint.

Complaints take a year or two to resolve so the MEC elected to keep negotiating rather than persue the complaint.

[Flyingsquirrelsuck]

WJ has a scope agreement with the pilots and broke that scope agreement to find cheaper labor

Surely if WJ broke a scope agreement during the statutory freeze period, ALPA would have filed an Unfair Labour Practice complaint. They did not.

Why not?

It’s too hot to hike out of the canyon here in Twin Falls right now, so please take advantage of this break in my jumping to craft your response(s). flyingsquirrelsuck , points will be deducted for bad grammar, so run your post by your wife first.

Just trying to keep the bull$hit in check John.

[jjj]

My grudge is with the company for obvious reasons.

As far as the Swoop guys are considered and I've already tried debating with the leader of the pack around here. No point in beating that dead horse anymore for obvious reasons. I also have a personal policy about wasting energy on people with closed minds.

Moving forward - I'll not make any effort to make life difficult for any off the street hires to Swoop. I'll just keep a list of names in my flight bag and exercise my sole discretion for who occupies my jump seat.

Cheers all.

JJJ

[eyebrow737]

. I'll just keep a list of names in my flight bag and exercise my sole discretion for who occupies my jump seat.

Oh dear, a pilot can't use your jumpseat. What a small stick to wield with all the open pax seats behind you or all the AC or Porter planes available.

Do you really think you matter?

[Dyna]

Yes indeed it does matter. Perhaps you don’t work for an airline. I can’t count the number of times a gate agent has asked “you guys ok with a jumpseater?” As a standby traveller I take great comfort knowing that the jump seat is there. The Swoop scabs will never get it. Unless they’re lucky enough to have BOTH pilots up front part of the 9%. Good luck with that.

It’s started already. Red pass and WestJet ID required or no jumpseat.

[Jumbo744]

Do people really use the jumpseat? Travel passes are enough most of the time. During my 2 years of commuting I have never asked for a jumpseat. I used to just buy standby tickets.

[eyebrow737]

Yes indeed it does matter. Perhaps you don’t work for an airline. I can’t count the number of times a gate agent has asked “you guys ok with a jumpseater?” As a standby traveller I take great comfort knowing that the jump seat is there. The Swoop scabs will never get it. Unless they’re lucky enough to have BOTH pilots up front part of the 9%. Good luck with that.

It’s started already. Red pass and WestJet ID required or no jumpseat.

Dyna, really. I commute to work at every week and probably use a jump seat once every six months on AC. Also use WJ if timing is better and you guys always have a ton of spare seats.

As I said, you might think you actually make a difference, but in between picking rubbish from the back like garbage men and throwing around soft taunts you might suddenly realise that you matter not an iota.

[jjj]

eyebrow,

I assure you it does matter when I’m driving the last boat outa town when flights are hammered and I squeeze two in the jumps.

I realize as a commuter you have various routes and opportunities worked out but I assure you I have saved many a holiday over the years.

I don’t need to wield a big stick nor am I looking for blood. One day however, the opportunity may arise when one of the original Swoopsters needs favour from me and they will be kindly welcome to kiss my ass.

JJJ

[RustyDeuce]

It’s started already. Red pass and WestJet ID required or no jumpseat.

That's a steaming pile of bullshit.

[lostaviator]

It’s started already. Red pass and WestJet ID required or no jumpseat.

That's a steaming pile of bullshit.

How so?

Personally, a red pass is required for safety. Anyone can get a job at wj, get their wj id day 1 and hop in a jumpseat. If I can’t show my family where I work, I’m not showing a stranger.

[jjj]

I don’t believe there is any correlation between a red pass and safety.

A red pass is a confirmation of identity. The holder of the pass matches the fingerprints and that person’s job grants certain access.

Take a look around an airport - a red pass isn’t difficult to obtain.

I do however play the red pass card with the jumpseat. When a CSA asks for the jump I inform them they can have both jumps and red passes first because I want to get commuters home/to work.

I’m transparent with my intentions and there’s never an issue.

When the possibility of red passes is exhausted i’ll consider others as granted by the policy.

I can think of a lot of people I know at the company that don’t hold a red pass and pose no threat of safety in my opinion.

Cheers all.

Jump seat is always open - except for Swoop.

JJJ

[eyebrow737]

Jump seat is always open - except for Swoop.

If you are so moral and righteous, your management are ultimately responsible for your situation. Why not ban them from the cockpit as well? I mean you do have ultimate responsibility over who jumps right?

No doubt your upstanding position doesn't extend to that level of courageousness does it?

You, and people of your ilk are nothing more than bullies. You have been treated badly and you are so weak that like a true bully don't pick on the strong but take it out on the defenseless.

The fact remains that most of the pilots would not have known of the WestJet pilots issues unless they read avCanada which many pilots do not. They applied for a fairly advertised job from a reputable company and got it.

The best way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them, and it has been said here before, if I hear of any pilots acting out a blacklist, you can be assured they will also not be allowed to jump on my plane likewise.

Showing your strength of character and to avoid other innocent westjetters from suffering would you care to share a list of names of pilots enacting a blacklist?

I know a number of us would love to have it.

[jjj]

Eyebrow,

I'll not make any judgements of your character and please don't bother trying to pigeon hole mine.

For your consideration - there is a possibility you are filling a vacuum of information with an emotional reaction and personal bias.

I have a hard time believing that anybody in this day and age would live in such a silo to not understand the implications of accepting a job at Swoop. By all means if there are any innocent bystanders they would be happily met with access. Show me one example and they'll be off my list and I'll send you a case of wine.

There are confirmed identities of people that did full-knowingly accept the job with an understanding of the situation.

I'll accept the fate of the Swoopsters as decided in arbitration. I'm prepared to take my lumps because I don't expect this to go my way. Fast forward to a day when I'm working with a First Officer who was screwed over by a Swoopster looking to jump - he'll be happy to know that access is denied. On that note I can't help but consider the safety issue when personal problems invade the flight deck. I depend on my FOs and wish them to be present and not distracted with the person riding behind us.

Management flies confirmed to my knowledge. Never in my time would I expect an opportunity to deny them access. As far as dealing with management - all I can do is speak plainly and logically face to face as I have always done. Beyond that I support my MEC. What else shall I do?



Cheers eyebrow - you and your mates are free to manage your access as you see fit - I respect your prerogative.

Jumpseat is always open - except for Swoop.

JJJ - number one on a blacklist of pilots that blacklist other pilots that did not live in a silo and accepted a job during a hiring ban and knowingly f'd over other pilots.

[eyebrow737]

I have a hard time believing that anybody in this day and age would live in such a silo to not understand the implications of accepting a job at Swoop. By all means if there are any innocent bystanders they would be happily met with access.

Looking outside your little bubble that has taken over your world, you maybe surprised by the amount of pilots I have flown with that have no knowledge at all about what is happening at swoop. Mostly because they don't care. Granted many other pilots have friends at wj and know they latest. For pilots outside of Canada, you might also be shocked, but most have never heard of a small airline in Canada called WestJet.

For pilots coming back to Canada from the sandpit or otherwise I am sure they had no idea, most people have better things to do than tracking the emotions of butt hurt pilots on the other side of the planet.

I do empathize for the first officers who might not get an upgrade (and who will probably be flying a new WB before long). However your hate is misplaced and sidelined by to much emotion.

Regardless, in your fit of hate you will no doubt hurt more people than you help.

As I said, nothing but a bully and even worse a bully that hides behind a shadow of anonymity. Unless you care to share your name publicly or even by PM. I'll start that list.

I so do detest a bully.

[jjj]

No hate or fits here eyebrow, that is not my modus operandi.

I think your assumptions are swoopid.

JJJ

[mbav8r]

I have a hard time believing that anybody in this day and age would live in such a silo to not understand the implications of accepting a job at Swoop. By all means if there are any innocent bystanders they would be happily met with access.

Looking outside your little bubble that has taken over your world, you maybe surprised by the amount of pilots I have flown with that have no knowledge at all about what is happening at swoop. Mostly because they don't care. Granted many other pilots have friends at wj and know they latest. For pilots outside of Canada, you might also be shocked, but most have never heard of a small airline in Canada called WestJet.

For pilots coming back to Canada from the sandpit or otherwise I am sure they had no idea, most people have better things to do than tracking the emotions of butt hurt pilots on the other side of the planet.

I do empathize for the first officers who might not get an upgrade (and who will probably be flying a new WB before long). However your hate is misplaced and sidelined by to much emotion.

Regardless, in your fit of hate you will no doubt hurt more people than you help.

As I said, nothing but a bully and even worse a bully that hides behind a shadow of anonymity. Unless you care to share your name publicly or even by PM. I'll start that list.

I so do detest a bully.

How do you feel about hypocrites?
Personally, I would add names of pilots who support swoop pilots to the blacklist, care to share your name eyebrow?
Also, only an idiot would not realize that doing the flying for a wholly owned subsidiary of WJ for 40% less salary would be contentious!

[eyebrow737]

I have a hard time believing that anybody in this day and age would live in such a silo to not understand the implications of accepting a job at Swoop. By all means if there are any innocent bystanders they would be happily met with access.

Looking outside your little bubble that has taken over your world, you maybe surprised by the amount of pilots I have flown with that have no knowledge at all about what is happening at swoop. Mostly because they don't care. Granted many other pilots have friends at wj and know they latest. For pilots outside of Canada, you might also be shocked, but most have never heard of a small airline in Canada called WestJet.

For pilots coming back to Canada from the sandpit or otherwise I am sure they had no idea, most people have better things to do than tracking the emotions of butt hurt pilots on the other side of the planet.

I do empathize for the first officers who might not get an upgrade (and who will probably be flying a new WB before long). However your hate is misplaced and sidelined by to much emotion.

Regardless, in your fit of hate you will no doubt hurt more people than you help.

As I said, nothing but a bully and even worse a bully that hides behind a shadow of anonymity. Unless you care to share your name publicly or even by PM. I'll start that list.

I so do detest a bully.

How do you feel about hypocrites?
Personally, I would add names of pilots who support swoop pilots to the blacklist, care to share your name eyebrow?
Also, only an idiot would not realize that doing the flying for a wholly owned subsidiary of WJ for 40% less salary would be contentious!

Mastib8r , I didn't say I supported them. I just don't like communist pilots who resort to the form of intimidation and bullying.

You want to talk about a hypocrite? As I have said before, in a fair world westjet would been out of business a long time ago for what you have all contributed to the reputation of a pilot and to our salaries.

Go back and pick up more garbage and tell more bad jokes. You're all only now starting to realize what a piece of crud regional airline you really work for now that the cool aid has dried off... haven't you?

You wanted to be the bottom of the race to the bottom and now some one has taken that away from you... jealous much?

[jjj]

Eyebrow is on an altruistic mission to defend the helpless innocent Swoopsters from “bullies” like me.

Therefore pilots like Tbaylx should be granted access to my jump seat because I have no justifiable reason otherwise.

My opinion aside shall we review the opinions of others.

Tbaylx asserts he has taken a legally posted job and is in no way affecting opportunity for any existing WestJet pilot and current WestJet pilots have no claim to Swoop flying.

The loose scope language of our 2014 does not apply in his opinion.

The labour minister has the opinion that all Swoop flying shall be operated by pilots on the WestJet pilot list.

This was decided to stop an illegal lockout and has reasonable basis in the opinion of the minister.

It seems the minister has decided WestJet pilots have a claim to this flying and I wonder where then does this opportunity for Tbaylx to assume a left seat come from if it is not an opportunity for somebody already on the list?

I also wonder how Tbaylx had no idea about the implications of accepting a Swoop posting despite his recorded history on this site pre-dates his date of hire at Swoop?

According to eyebrow, I as a cruel bully I should know better and sit idle and accept off the street hires at Swoop with open arms and offer equal privilege.

According to eyebrow I should also be subjected to personal attack and blacklist if I don’t comply with his protection of people who undercut the industry.

According to eyebrow I should be subjected to further attack for undercutting an industry despite being part of the second highest paid 737 drivers in Canada second only to Air Canada.

According to eyebrow I also tell bad jokes and am a janitor.

Am I missing something?

[flyzam]

According to eyebrow I also tell bad jokes and am a janitor.

Haha - I think he nailed it on the head there. When you guys changing the toilets next?

According to eyebrow I should be subjected to further attack for undercutting an industry despite being part of the second highest paid 737 drivers in Canada second only to Air Canada.

Not when westjet started the pilots weren't

Am I missing something?

Perspective

[tbaylx]

Eyebrow,

For your consideration - there is a possibility you are filling a vacuum of information with an emotional reaction and personal bias.

That could be said for an awful lot of people on here.

I don't believe there are any initial pilots at Swoop that weren't aware of Westjet pilot's claim to the flying. You guys wanted the expansion and flying, you believed it should be yours yours and that eventually it would directly affect career progression. I understand your point of view, I just don't agree with it.

Westjet chose to offer it at Sunwing hourly rates, which wasn't acceptable to Westjet pilots. So it went to the street, the company didn't agree that you had a claim to the flying and ultimately since they are in charge of hiring they decide and felt it fell outside of existing scope at the time. Plenty of companies hire DEC's all over the world and offer positions to qualified people outside the organization. The guys who took the publicly offered terms understood that they were being paid Sunwing wages and were ok with that for a variety of reasons.

If there had been pilot layoffs at mainline by reducing the existing fleet and moving them to Swoop then likely most of us wouldn't have applied for the job. However it was a new company startup with a separate OC, and will remain on a separate OC. There wasn't a single Westjet pilot laid off by Swoop, nor was that going to happen. Expansion at mainline would have continued with the introduction of 10-20 787's. The opportunity for expansion at mainline and career progression was the same before and after Swoop. The expansion and upgrade opportunities were all generated by the new airline. Westjet pilots wanted access to the Swoop potential expansion too though, but didn't' want to do it for the wages offered.

If Westjet was confident enough from a scope/legal perspective to offer it to the street then that's their decision and i'll consider the opportunity as offered. Your MEC was trying to do their best to secure the potential Swoop expansion for the westjet pilots but their interests are for existing Westjet pilots and not those of us outside, so don't be shocked when others take an offered opportunity regardless of tactics such as recruitment bans. To expect outside pilots to avoid an opportunity at a well capitalized start up airline so that F/O's at mainline or Encore can get a shot at the same position that didn't even exist before Swoop is a bit much.

In the end both sides managed to come to an agreement on filling the seats from Encore and mainline ranks at terms that are yet to be revealed but almost certainly won't be mainline rates. Different rates for the same equipment isn't exactly unusual. Hell Westjet did it to Canadian when they started up, Rouge does it today. Given with what an arbitrator is going to impose I'd argue your MEC would have been better off saying ok, we'll accept Sunwing rates for 2-3 years to launch if you offer it internally. Then you could have negotiated higher rates at a later date and would have built up negotiating capital for mainline negotiations and avoided everything that has happened to date. I'm not privy to the MEC's decision making process on why they didn't do that but I'd suspect there would be a different path taken in hindsight.

You guys are welcome to manage your jumpseats however you'd like. I respect differing opinions. Pretty sure most of us would be happy to offer a Swoop jumpseat up to any commuting pilot regardless of where your opinion lies but again that's the pilot's decision to make.

[jjj]

Anything else Tbaylx?

Feel free to correct or fill in any relevant gaps in any of my recent posts.

Believe me I would much prefer a world where all pilots employed by the WestJet parent company may have liberal access to my jump seat without prejudice.

I'm all ears and happy to test my opinion if you or anyone can bring some additional information to the conversation.


Cheers.

JJJ

[tbaylx]

Anything else Tbaylx?

Feel free to correct or fill in any relevant gaps in any of my recent posts.

Believe me I would much prefer a world where all pilots employed by the WestJet parent company may have liberal access to my jump seat without prejudice.

I'm all ears and happy to test my opinion if you or anyone can bring some additional information to the conversation.


Cheers.

JJJ

See above, that's about it. Agree to disagree i guess.

[mbav8r]

Looking outside your little bubble that has taken over your world, you maybe surprised by the amount of pilots I have flown with that have no knowledge at all about what is happening at swoop. Mostly because they don't care. Granted many other pilots have friends at wj and know they latest. For pilots outside of Canada, you might also be shocked, but most have never heard of a small airline in Canada called WestJet.

For pilots coming back to Canada from the sandpit or otherwise I am sure they had no idea, most people have better things to do than tracking the emotions of butt hurt pilots on the other side of the planet.

I do empathize for the first officers who might not get an upgrade (and who will probably be flying a new WB before long). However your hate is misplaced and sidelined by to much emotion.

Regardless, in your fit of hate you will no doubt hurt more people than you help.

As I said, nothing but a bully and even worse a bully that hides behind a shadow of anonymity. Unless you care to share your name publicly or even by PM. I'll start that list.

I so do detest a bully.

How do you feel about hypocrites?
Personally, I would add names of pilots who support swoop pilots to the blacklist, care to share your name eyebrow?
Also, only an idiot would not realize that doing the flying for a wholly owned subsidiary of WJ for 40% less salary would be contentious!

Mastib8r , I didn't say I supported them. I just don't like communist pilots who resort to the form of intimidation and bullying.

You want to talk about a hypocrite? As I have said before, in a fair world westjet would been out of business a long time ago for what you have all contributed to the reputation of a pilot and to our salaries.

Go back and pick up more garbage and tell more bad jokes. You're all only now starting to realize what a piece of crud regional airline you really work for now that the cool aid has dried off... haven't you?

You wanted to be the bottom of the race to the bottom and now some one has taken that away from you... jealous much?

Who’s the bully again, your entire post including how you changed my handle, Hypocrite!
Also, I’m not a WJ pilot, I’m a Jazz pilot who has been undercut by pilots that went to SR, then 10 of them figured they hadn’t screwed over enough pilots, they swooped WJ pilots too.
History is just that, the WJ pilots are doing something now and the majority of them were not there for the initial start up phase you refer to.