Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

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confusedalot
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by confusedalot » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:03 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
.It's more than just a backlog, these people have lost the plot.
To lose something you first must have had it. :mrgreen:
he he he he..........wisdom has no bounds. To bad that is a rare commodity.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by confusedalot » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:28 pm

photofly wrote:
confusedalot wrote:Here is a story for ya.

Flew with a great guy, ex/retired RCMP on his second career. He was issued a yellow escort required pass. And this, after many many months.

Is it me, or would you figure that a national cop would have gone through all of the screening required?

Escorted by me, a humble career airplane pilot.

Go figure.....It's more than just a backlog, these people have lost the plot. So it's not you, it's them.

True story.
Not every policeman is upright, not even every retired policeman. Also they will have years of close contact with a lot of unsavoury characters for whom someone on the inside of a security cordon is a very valuable resource.


I love the ''used against you'' comment. Do something that affects an unqualified public servants sensibilities, you get screwed.

Subjective and capricious decisions from a small handful of little commissars make or break a member of the public.; They have superior and unchecked power.

yep, they lost the plot that they never had in the first place..............

You, on the other hand, are far less likely to know anyone who could blackmail or bribe you nor do you have a possibly rich history of indiscretions that could be used against you.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by confusedalot » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:04 pm

photofly wrote:
confusedalot wrote:Here is a story for ya.

Flew with a great guy, ex/retired RCMP on his second career. He was issued a yellow escort required pass. And this, after many many months.

Is it me, or would you figure that a national cop would have gone through all of the screening required?

Escorted by me, a humble career airplane pilot.

Go figure.....It's more than just a backlog, these people have lost the plot. So it's not you, it's them.

True story.
Not every policeman is upright, not even every retired policeman. Also they will have years of close contact with a lot of unsavoury characters for whom someone on the inside of a security cordon is a very valuable resource.

You, on the other hand, are far less likely to know anyone who could blackmail or bribe you nor do you have a possibly rich history of indiscretions that could be used against you.

The likelihood is almost zero to say the least. Maybe I was a diabolical mastermind who fooled the system?

No, the system has zero idea of what they are actually doing, and zero idea of what is a real threat, and what is not a threat. The political game of showing that they are doing something is what is going on.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by photofly » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:32 pm

Ah, ok. I didn't realize you'd actually assessed the likelihood of his being a risk as "almost zero to say the least". That makes a huge difference. If you pass that information on to the office they'll issue his pass immediately. And if they don't they're clearly incompetent.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by confusedalot » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:27 pm

you win, TC is beyond reproach. :prayer:
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by GhostRider6 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:31 am

To put it simply.. I think security's mandate is to provide the " illusion" of security to the general public.
If they are actually serious about providing security and this not true then the whole thing is a total joke.. just my honest opinion..

Aircrew are as easy target as we have the most to lose and are the least likely to protest the idiocy.. thus further perpetuating the " myth" of security.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by iflyroads » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:29 pm

I could start a pairing at the company hangar. Do a full 4 or 5 day pairing to many big airports and stay in the secure side without ever going through security once and be towed back to the hangar again at the end of it.

They do need to create the illusion of security as well as it helps should the odd duck come up during their background a check that they have to look further into. What is a serious joke is the backlog they are in now. With everyone hiring around the industry the wait times have gotten even longer. Wish they would hire some temporary staff or even outsource it to other companies here in Canada to help with the work load. But that's just an idea and who knows what red tape is involved around it.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by charv66 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:45 am

Going on 7 months here for CYOW, still on yellow escort pass. Ridiculous.

(I have had a Provincial PI Licence for years, a Restricted Firearms Licence and a Secret Federal Govt Security Certificate valid to 2021. I also held RAIC passes uninterrupted from 1987-2004.)

--
Email from TC back on April 3rd:

Bertrand, Nina
Apr 3

to me
Hello,

I have checked your file and I can see that it is still in process. The usual processing time for Transport Security Clearances is between 3-5 months. The agencies that conduct the background checks are currently experiencing some backlog which could explain why the process is taking some time. I can also confirm that your file is up to date and no important information is missing, which means it shouldn’t be slowed down because of missing documents.

I hope this answers your question and do not hesitate to contact us if you have any more queries. You can email our general email, securityscreeningrequests/information@tc.gc.ca or call our main line 613-990-5532

Have a nice day!

Nina Bertrand
TC - Security Screening Programs - Security Screening Co-ordinator
(613) 949-4905
nina.bertrand@tc.gc.ca
Transport(s) Canada Place de Ville (ABPB)
330 Sparks Street - Room 1531 Ottawa, ON K1A 0N5
Government of Canada Gouvernement du Canada
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by charv66 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:41 am

Received update from TC today 21.04.201: Up to 1 year delay!!!!

Bertrand, Nina
9:42 AM (1 hour ago)

to me
Hello Vincent,

I have looked into your file again and, unfortunately, it is still in process. The agencies are experiencing backlog which could explain this delay. I have seen some clearance wait up to a year sometimes, I understand that this is very long and, without a doubt, extremely inconvenient for you, but there is nothing we can really do to accelerate the process once it is with the agencies. They have their own way of conducting their checks and if we were to contact them they would not give us any information.

I understand that the situation is extremely frustrating and I wish there was something I could do to help move it along, but all I can tell you is that I can see that it is getting looked into, which means it hasn’t fallen through any cracks and we’re not forgetting about it. There also isn’t anything missing that could slow it down even more, which also helps the process.

Again, I apologize for not being much help and I hope your clearance comes through soon.

If you have any other inquiries do not hesitate to call or email us at the general line/email below on this email thread.

Have a nice day,

***I will be on leave as of Friday, April 21st 2017 at 4pm, please contact the general email securityscreeningrequests/information@tc.gc.ca in order to have your request treated in a timely matter. ***

Nina Bertrand
TC - Security Screening Programs - Security Screening Co-ordinator
(613) 949-4905
nina.bertrand@tc.gc.ca
Transport(s) Canada Place de Ville (ABPB)
330 Sparks Street - Room 1531 Ottawa, ON K1A 0N5
Government of Canada Gouvernement du Canada
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Black_Tusk » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:18 am

I just got mine after 4 months. I got it while trading my YUL yellow in at YVR for another yellow, but it happened to be ready so they just skipped the temp and gave me a full red. The YVR pass office said it was ready at the beginning of the month, however YUL had never contacted me. So it's a good thing I was doing a transfer otherwise who knows how long it would have taken in Montreal.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by lrae24 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:00 pm

Hello Everyone,

I just want to ask in applying a raic at the airport pass office, they will ask you if you lived in the US in the past 5 years.
What is that all about?
for example if you have lived there in the past 5 years do you still need to provide a police clearance from the US?
what is the latest now on the RAIC processing times. Thank you very much
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RAIC pass lately? Agencies?

Post by Tailwheelup » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:57 pm

Has anyone any inside information on "the agencies" that
are each separately required to provide Transport Canada with their approval?

Is a permanent RAIC ever issued without a temporary being issued?

Has anyone used their local persons of influence to find out and or
expedite the process?

Has anyone worked in this area?


Any PM appreciated.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by leftoftrack » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:33 pm

none, your pilots licence and a need to be there is all you legally require to be in the restricted area
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Tailwheelup » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:09 am

"Left of track". Dismissive posts don't help.

RAIC's are essential prerequisites for some jobs.
I've done many years without one and now, I'm required to have one.
The process is unnecessarily secretive.
You can call and all the information you get is "it's being processed"
meaning its being assessed by one of a variety of authorities who
apparently have to provide a report or check off a box.

I'm looking to hear from someone who used to process these applications.

Some of the prior posts leave me concerned, such as that they don't check prior addresses etc.
I don't see them checking with every landlord of every address you lived at for five years.

Other countries process similar applications rapidly.

The Canadian process is extremely slow. It's typical of attitude of those in the government who
don't give a dam about time delays etc. Its that apathy that I find offensive.

Its also discriminatory, if you have spent time in another country or hold a different citizenship
then it is designed to make sure you will not have your RAIC issued in time to be considered for
a position.

It needs a shake up from the minister down.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Tailwheelup » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:53 pm

It appears TC can take a very long time in issuing RAIC cards.
I've looked at the TC material and the Federal Court cases and came up
with what many must think is obvious, but, it appears to be what controls them.

The time taken appears to be for
"the Director of Security Screening Programs is satisfied that all information required by the application has been provided to the Minister and that such information can be verified to the Minister’s satisfaction; and
For the purpose of subsection (b), information provided by the applicant must be adequate, reliable and verifiable covering a period of five years prior to the application being made."

When I read the Federal court cases involving RAIC's there are 26 cases that all appear to fall into
"is known or suspected to be involved"
that ends up with a conclusion, recommended to the Minister that causes

the Minister reasonably believes, on a balance of probabilities, may be prone or induced to
commit an act that may unlawfully interfere with civil aviation; or
assist or abet any person to commit an act that may unlawfully interfere with civil aviation.

Out of 26 cases, there were 2 or 3 cases where the holder of a RAIC was the spouse of someone that the
police had reports of "associating" with Hells Angels etc. It appears that TC can see what they want to see.

Its nearly as bad as being a pilot of a passenger aircraft and unwittingly fly a passenger who associates with Hell's Angels.
Those applications for review were granted. The rest were not, often there was what appeared to be overwhelming evidence
of criminal associations or activity including large amounts of drugs or cash. At the bottom end, $900 can be called a large amount.

What this appears to mean is, that TC can take their sweet time, as an any organization that they use to verify information.
Where the accountability falls apart is that they fail to disclose just how many checks are done, how long each takes, which
authority is responsible for what delay etc.

I'm told it is now taking so long that temporary cards expire and have to be renewed before
a permanent card can be issued.

It's self defeating. The system takes so long that it inherently creates threats to aviation safety.

It would be interesting knowing just how much it costs the government and who is billed what.

If similar background checks are done for Provincial licencing, the time frame is generally days or weeks not months.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by cloudskimmer » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:12 pm

They're too busy dealing with who can and can't have a gun...

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/b ... li=AAggNb9

"Bureaucratic gridlock"
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Localizer » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:24 am

The RCMP use to have the responsibility of granting or denying security clearances, Transport believes they are better suited at determining who is a threat or not. (hence the 500% spike in cancellations and denials of security clearances) An RCMP SIBS (Security Intelligence Background Section) officer provides Transport Canada will all the information they find on you, then they determine your threat status. They seem to heavily focus on LERC reports, (Law Enforcement Record Checks) these are a synopsis of an incident in the responding officers words, which are heavily bias. The problem with LERC's are that you typically don't know they exist, unless you've had known contact with law enforcement.

If Transport revokes or deny's your clearance you have to wait a minimum of 5 years before you can reapply, again no guarantees. The only other option is to appeal to the Federal Court of Canada, good luck with that! They typically give deference to the government and rarely interfere with a ministerial decision, remember these judges are appointed by the government .. why bite the hand that feeds you?

Deference - Judicial deference is the condition of a court yielding or submitting its judgment to that of another legitimate party.

The entire system violates a number of Charter rights, but as the Federal Court has already ruled, your Charter Rights don't trump public safety (or the illusion of it). If you look south of the border American's can't be denied a security clearance based on allegations, only convictions (presumption of innocence), we don't know what threat foreign pilots represent but we allow them greater latitude in Canada then our own citizens.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Chaxterium » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:36 pm

Tailwheelup wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:09 am
"Left of track".

Its also discriminatory, if you have spent time in another country or hold a different citizenship
then it is designed to make sure you will not have your RAIC issued in time to be considered for
a position.

I'm not sure where you're getting this. I, as well as everyone else in my hiring class, were hired without having a RAIC. We were told we would be required to get one at some point, but it in no way hindered the hiring process.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Tailwheelup » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:35 pm

I think you know exactly what I'm getting at and that you don't like the post
because its not what you want to see.


Most airlines require RAIC eligibility. If a group are known to get extensive delays to the
issue of a RAIC it amounts to intimidation by TC, to employers, not to hire those who "might"
be subject to longer issue times for RAICs which are very annoying to Airline management.

You probably don't know if your employer did their own assessment of RAIC eligibility
based on the information you provided.


I'm seeing exactly that discrimination, not with myself but a young lady who was not born in Canada
and just issued landed immigrant status. Several airport companies got her to fill in a RAIC application form
and then weeks later, told her she did not pass the security profile , meaning eligibility for a RAIC within a reasonable time.

That is the hiring companies (not named here) know, that TC would subject this sort of applicant to extensive delays that would be so long that
they either fire the person or the person quits. This is not necessarily just Pilot's RAIC problem.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Cessna 180 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:47 am

I got my pass in YEG in 2.5 weeks (never had one before). I was given a search only yellow pass in the mean time. I have no real dealings with the police nor have I traveled anywhere for more than 90 days before and only to the USA in the last 5 years, so I imagine this helps.

Going to be transferring my pass to YTZ in a few weeks so we'll see how that goes...

On the other hand, the whole RAIC thing can be very discriminatory. My friend applied for a job at an FBO and listed on his resume that he did a foreign exchange in Europe in high school. Big mistake. Regardless of spending less that 90 days there (89 days exactly), they didn't offer him the job because they were worried he wouldn't get a RAIC in a reasonable amount of time. Some of their employees have apparently been waiting for over 2 years.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Confused88 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:50 am

I’ve been on Yellow Pass since the end of April 2018 and had to get it renewed already until October 2018. Everyone that applied with me got their Red Pass and I seem to be one of the few that don’t have it yet.

I had some incidents with the police and the charges were all dropped by the first appearance in court. Everything charged was related to domestic matters (ex spouse), and I was granted a peace bond. I was never convicted, nor do I have a criminal record. None of the charges were related to drugs or cash, as mentioned; domestic issues.

I was told by GTAA office that RAIC can take upto a year, but I certainly didn’t explain my past of being in custody for something that I was never convicted with.

My question is, to the experienced folks on here; how long do you reckon my application will take to finish being processed and for them to issue a red pass? It’s been about 4 months on yellow pass...
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by digits_ » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:13 am

Confused88 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:50 am
My question is, to the experienced folks on here; how long do you reckon my application will take to finish being processed and for them to issue a red pass? It’s been about 4 months on yellow pass...
4 months is nothing, took me over 11 months. 3 temporary yellow ones. That was because I lived in Europe before. Nothing police related.

I think we are very lucky in Canada that all terrorists wait until they have their red pass before they attempt to take any action :smt023
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by Tailwheelup » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:58 am

The responses are exactly what I've been hearing from an airline's RAIC card person. Any male pilot can be the victim of a vindictive female who makes false allegations. No matter how bizarre those allegations are, they run a better than 50% chance of charges, and unfortunately, if charges, a 50% chance of a conviction, based on a "she said".

Most divorces have criminal allegations made for posturing purposes. They are often designed to destroy careers etc. The effect on RAIC applications is horrific. TC effectively make it next to impossible due to their time delays. If you move from one employer to another, the application gets cancelled and then you have to start over again.

With so much movement in the industry, you need to make applying for a RAIC a priority as soon as you agree to be employed. In fact, IF you have an agreement to be employed in the future, it would be a good idea to get the RAIC application started.

TC are playing games, blaming their "partner agencies" for the delays, therefore its not the problem of TC, according to TC. It's a government policy problem.

This is very different from the USA where permanent passes can be issued in a few weeks or a month. Their delays occur when your fingerprints are worn off, or there is a criminal record that needs checking that might extend it beyond that 30 days. They are still issuing TWIC cards to those with a "police record" or "criminal record" inside the 30 days.

Australia's security cards are also issued rapidly. In both the USA and Australia (ASIC), it has to be a serious crime "USA felony" before a TWIC will be refused. Canada on the other hand appears to use a different test. They do not use a Criminal burden of proof but a balance of probabilities that can rely upon, unproven allegations made by an officer that your car was seen parked outside the home of someone involved in drugs or organized crime. But at least, in that case, you get an opportunity to respond or more to the point, demand that they provide you the proof thereof, and if they can't do that then the RAIC gets issued.

While there is some "due process", its a pretense, they create so many delays that they effectively prevent RAIC's from being issued based on the most dubious of information.

At the end of the day, employers will not want to be involved, if an employee discloses an issue that might delay the issue of a RAIC for a year, it can be as good as a permanent refusal to issue a RAIC.

Now one of the posters suggested that you do NOT disclose living overseas. That is obviously incorrect. If your application provides full disclosure, you are safe. If you fail to disclose on an application that is a a red flag that could well justify the non-issue of a RAIC.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by digits_ » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:06 am

Tailwheelup wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:58 am
If you move from one employer to another, the application gets cancelled and then you have to start over again.
One year ago this was incorrect. I switched employers without problems while I was still on my yellow pass. No extra delays.
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Re: Anyone had a RAIC pass lately? Wait time?

Post by av8ts » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:05 pm

Tailwheelup wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:58 am


Most divorces have criminal allegations made for posturing purposes.
I’m calling bullshit on this
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