Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

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HansDietrich
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by HansDietrich »

I'll clean the plane in the back when the Groomers / FAs come in the flight deck and take care of that MEL for me.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by atphat »

HansDietrich wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:10 am
I'll clean the plane in the back when the Groomers / FAs come in the flight deck and take care of that MEL for me.
Exactly
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C.W.E.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by C.W.E. »

I couldn’t care less what the lackey WJ pilots do but spare yourself the embarrassment of thinking that grooming is a professional pilots duty.
I am truly perplexed about what exactly are the requirements to be a professional pilot.

There are no educational requirements to get the license except the ability to read and write well enough to study and write the exams, which if you fail them you can re-write as many times as it takes to finally get a pass mark.

So starting from that low entry requirement can you explain to me exactly what is so difficult about becoming a professional pilot?
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by C-GGGQ »

Actually making it to and past that illusive first job
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by Herculise »

pianokeys wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am
Oh Jesus here we go with the sarcastic "I hope no one demeans a pilot by making them clean" etc comments... I cant wait for a WS crew member to ask me to clean after I deadhead because Ive been saving the "Im not doing that, my airline pays people to do this." line for a year now.

It has nothing to do with ranking or grandiose attitudes, bottom line is your taking a job away from someone else because your airline is too cheap to hire a proper ground crew and instead sells it as "One in, all in! Were a team and a family! Everyone helps!" propaganda.

Side note, youd think now that WS is no longer a LCC/ULCC, and instead legacy carrier because theyre going international with widebody aircraft and two classes they would finally have the money to hire a groom crew... Nope, too cheap. Sell it as "team building" so everyone buys in to it.
Let's just pray that the union does right by the cabin crew and soon they will have groomers.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by C.W.E. »

Actually making it to and past that illusive first job
Could that be because the requirements to be a pilot are so low there is always a glut of licensed pilots looking for that first job?
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by Zaibatsu »

I paint my own house and rotate my own tires because I’m saving my money.

You’re grooming the cabin to save the owners and shareholders money. I don’t think that the whole “owners care” BS really works for Team Teal anymore.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by C.W.E. »

The question of grooming the airplane is really academic.

If you feel you should not have to groom the airplane don't work there.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by sicamore »

C.W.E. wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:01 pm
The question of grooming the airplane is really academic.

If you feel you should not have to groom the airplane don't work there.
One could argue that airlines charging for ratings is academic as well until all airlines start doing it.

Or maybe pay to fly like in other parts of the world god forbid. They all started with just one company doing it.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by C.W.E. »

One could argue that airlines charging for ratings is academic as well until all airlines start doing it.

Or maybe pay to fly like in other parts of the world god forbid. They all started with just one company doing it.
That is true.

However the choice to do any of these things still rests with the individual.

It is driven by supply and demand.

As long as becoming a professional pilot remains so easy it is unlikely things will change.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by sicamore »

C.W.E. wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:03 pm
One could argue that airlines charging for ratings is academic as well until all airlines start doing it.

Or maybe pay to fly like in other parts of the world god forbid. They all started with just one company doing it.
That is true.

However the choice to do any of these things still rests with the individual.

It is driven by supply and demand.

As long as becoming a professional pilot remains so easy it is unlikely things will change.
Easy? Maybe for you? I got a degree and worked as an engineer for many years. Getting my license, building my hours and working my way up took considerably longer, more money, harder to get jobs and even more elbow grease at the beginning, not to mention far more fuatrating

I was paid far more in the office right from the star and I can tell you no one expected us to change the trash at the beginning of the day.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by HansDietrich »

If you think that a 737 Captain or First Officer should clean planes, you need to travel a bit more and see the world. Get that 703 mentality or whatever PTSD you may be experiencing due to your previous abuse as a small time pilot and get in line with the rest of the world. Spare me the "What about paying for a type rating?" argument. No real airline (Lufthansa, KLM, BA, SAS, Swiss) will ask you to pay for the type rating.

PILOTS SHOULD NOT CLEAN PLANES, EXCEPT THE AREA WHERE THEY WORKED.... (Your cockpit seat)
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by C.W.E. »

I would like to reply to this by giving my experience in becoming a pilot.
Easy? Maybe for you? I got a degree and worked as an engineer for many years.
It was easy because I really enjoyed getting the license and never considered it anything except fun.

When I started my education level was grade eight and I was driving a delivery truck for a living and also to pay for my training, however I did work at the flying school as a mechanics helper in exchange for flying time and in the end fixing them was more rewarding than flying them and it still is.
Getting my license, building my hours and working my way up took considerably longer, more money, harder to get jobs and even more elbow grease at the beginning, not to mention far more fuatrating
As I have already said it took me a long time and a lot of hard work to get the licenses at the start of my career but once I had the license I had the right contact to get a job flying in the tobacco fields of Southern Ontario spraying tobacco which not only was my first real flying job but the best flying job I ever had.
I was paid far more in the office right from the star and I can tell you no one expected us to change the trash at the beginning of the day.
The only job I had outside of flying when I was young was driving trucks, which I did for years during the times the flying jobs were not available.

As to pay I never had to work for poor pay because I only flew in specialised fields that payed reasonably well.

Bottom line was becoming a pilot was not all that hard to get into especially for someone like me who had limited formal education.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by BE02 Driver »

pianokeys wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:29 am
BE02 Driver wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:27 am
Hating on other for going about their job in a different fashion is obtuse.
Image
That's actually pretty funny. Thanks for the laugh.

In quick response to all of the above from both you and eyebrow.

I do not Infact drink the kool-aid of Clive & Co. I would prefer if pilots didn't groom at WestJet. But at the same time I'm not above being asked to do things in the interest in saving money, because I'm both not a hypocrite (I save money at every opportunity myself, as do most financially conscious people, and corporations) and two, I try my best to by humble. Despite Eyebrow thinking that I am a trust fund baby that happened in to a pilots licence (seems to be the go to insult on this forum by over entitled pilots) that couldn't be further from the truth. I, like many of my peers and many pilots on this forum have paid my debt in full to this country, so that people can bitch and moan about how good they have it without ever having know the plight of many others in our own country and around the world.

As someone else has pointed out, there is no specific requirements to be a pilot. It's essentially a skilled trade. Which is why our profession isn't recognised with NAFTA visas. Just about anyone with a little bit of aptitude and some spare change can become a pilot. I think it's time for some people to get off their high horse. Its not money, or lack of grooming that will make you happy. Maybe a change in attitude will give you the happiness that you seek in life.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by Anticyclone »

HansDietrich wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:20 pm
If you think that a 737 Captain or First Officer should clean planes, you need to travel a bit more and see the world. Get that 703 mentality or whatever PTSD you may be experiencing due to your previous abuse as a small time pilot and get in line with the rest of the world. Spare me the "What about paying for a type rating?" argument. No real airline (Lufthansa, KLM, BA, SAS, Swiss) will ask you to pay for the type rating.

PILOTS SHOULD NOT CLEAN PLANES, EXCEPT THE AREA WHERE THEY WORKED.... (Your cockpit seat)
Absolutely bro in addition to that if the company is going thru though time i dont mind taking a pay cut as long as everybody else does but what we are seeing right now is the operators are making more profits for themselves on our back coz the fares are not going down. :smt078
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by Lightchop »

C.W.E. wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:39 pm
I would like to reply to this by giving my experience in becoming a pilot.
Easy? Maybe for you? I got a degree and worked as an engineer for many years.
It was easy because I really enjoyed getting the license and never considered it anything except fun.

When I started my education level was grade eight and I was driving a delivery truck for a living and also to pay for my training, however I did work at the flying school as a mechanics helper in exchange for flying time and in the end fixing them was more rewarding than flying them and it still is.
Getting my license, building my hours and working my way up took considerably longer, more money, harder to get jobs and even more elbow grease at the beginning, not to mention far more fuatrating
As I have already said it took me a long time and a lot of hard work to get the licenses at the start of my career but once I had the license I had the right contact to get a job flying in the tobacco fields of Southern Ontario spraying tobacco which not only was my first real flying job but the best flying job I ever had.
I was paid far more in the office right from the star and I can tell you no one expected us to change the trash at the beginning of the day.
The only job I had outside of flying when I was young was driving trucks, which I did for years during the times the flying jobs were not available.

As to pay I never had to work for poor pay because I only flew in specialised fields that payed reasonably well.

Bottom line was becoming a pilot was not all that hard to get into especially for someone like me who had limited formal education.
. it's not 1956 anymore.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by Lightchop »

HansDietrich wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:20 pm


PILOTS SHOULD NOT CLEAN PLANES, EXCEPT THE AREA WHERE THEY WORKED.... (Your cockpit seat)
Which let's be honest never happens. Pilots are disgusting and I always spend a few min disinfecting the flight deck when I take a new tail.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by PT6onH20 »

Lightchop wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:27 am
C.W.E. wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:39 pm
I would like to reply to this by giving my experience in becoming a pilot.
Easy? Maybe for you? I got a degree and worked as an engineer for many years.
It was easy because I really enjoyed getting the license and never considered it anything except fun.

When I started my education level was grade eight and I was driving a delivery truck for a living and also to pay for my training, however I did work at the flying school as a mechanics helper in exchange for flying time and in the end fixing them was more rewarding than flying them and it still is.
Getting my license, building my hours and working my way up took considerably longer, more money, harder to get jobs and even more elbow grease at the beginning, not to mention far more fuatrating
As I have already said it took me a long time and a lot of hard work to get the licenses at the start of my career but once I had the license I had the right contact to get a job flying in the tobacco fields of Southern Ontario spraying tobacco which not only was my first real flying job but the best flying job I ever had.
I was paid far more in the office right from the star and I can tell you no one expected us to change the trash at the beginning of the day.
The only job I had outside of flying when I was young was driving trucks, which I did for years during the times the flying jobs were not available.

As to pay I never had to work for poor pay because I only flew in specialised fields that payed reasonably well.

Bottom line was becoming a pilot was not all that hard to get into especially for someone like me who had limited formal education.
. it's not 1956 anymore.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by Captain S itmagnet »

Once upon a time not so long ago we had 40 minutes between flights at our hub. That allowed some time to help out at the back. Now maybe (if we are on time) it’s 20. Somewhere in that 20 I need to get a release, reload the printer when it fails, maybe chat with dispatch about the MEL item due to the last minute tail change, and tend to really important stuff like buy the crew our morning coffee and take a leak. Not unusual to hear the simulataneous gate change and preboard announcement as I go to get the paperwork. Oh yeah I’m expected to read and absorb the 12 pages while retrieving our gear for the tail change.
So no, not anymore. Not for a few years. Take your pick of what you think My priorities are.
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Re: Which Canadian Airlines expect their Flight Deck Crew to also be Cabin Groomers?

Post by C.W.E. »

. it's not 1956 anymore.
I was relating how I started flying and I am aware it in not 1956 anymore.

Do you really think I have no idea about the airplanes you fly and the the environment you fly them in?
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