Where is this so called shortage

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goingnowherefast
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:01 am

Chuck, you should run for political office, your ability to dodge the question rivals the best. Now see below for the question you expertly avoided earlier.
telex wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:36 pm
What's your tolerance for being a passenger with a low time Captain and a lower time FO in this, the easiest profession, in existence?
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Outlaw58
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Outlaw58 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:09 am

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:48 am
I
n that sense, it does not require a lot of physical effort. But because of those time I had to hoist passengers onto a ship in heavy seas, because of that flight in a storm over the North Sea where I didn't know how the hell I would land the aircraft, because of those xwind landings from breaking out at minimums, because of that missed approach at min fuel, because of that transit in formation in cloud a 36k because we didn't break on top, because the AC packing it in over Lake Superior scared the crap outta me (funny story actually), because of helo ops in mountains, because I painted myself in a corner VFR in 1/8 SM weather with min fuel, because focusing on a landing gear indicator light or forgetting the flaps for take-off or taking off/landing on the wrong runway (only to name a few examples) has killed crews and passengers in the past, etc... etc.., you'll never hear me say it's an easy job. Just because it's not physical doesn't mean it's easy.
And who exactly made the decisions that put you in those positions?
Me! Experience is something you acquire a second after needing it.

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Meatservo
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Meatservo » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:00 pm

Anyone who has hauled the drill itself, followed by all the lumber, salt, bentonite, and fuel, into a subarctic exploration drill site in the winter, actually f*ck even the summer- everything's harder to handle over the floats- would not complain about the work not being hard enough or the flying being too easy.
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by C.W.E. » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:51 pm

Chuck, you should run for political office, your ability to dodge the question rivals the best. Now see below for the question you expertly avoided earlier.
Your reading comprehension needs some improvement goingnowhere, my answer is logical.

How does one know the experience level of any crew in the airline world?

I was not dodging the question I was asking a question , is there a way to ask the airline what experience level the crew that is flying the airplane you are booked on has?

One fact I can state is the qualifications to become a pilot is very low, so low in fact that there is no minimum education required to become licensed to fly commercially.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:09 pm

Still dodging the question, and insulting the person asking. You'd make a good fit for US president!

Roughly 2000 and 700 are the lowest captain and FO experience you'll find in a regional cockpit. Are you comfortable getting on a plane knowing that?
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by C.W.E. » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:17 pm

Anyone who has hauled the drill itself, followed by all the lumber, salt, bentonite, and fuel, into a subarctic exploration drill site in the winter, actually f*ck even the summer- everything's harder to handle over the floats- would not complain about the work not being hard enough or the flying being too easy.
For sure the lading and unloading was hard work.

However I personally did not think flying the airplane was all that difficult. :)
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by C.W.E. » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:23 pm

Roughly 2000 and 700 are the lowest captain and FO experience you'll find in a regional cockpit. Are you comfortable getting on a plane knowing that?
The airlines have shown that that level of experience is sufficient for a crew to follow SOP's and get the machine from A to B safely therefore I am comfortable that they will get me from A to B safely.

How many occupations can you list where the entry requirements are basically knowing how to read and write and getting enough money to pay for the license except flying as a career?
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telex
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by telex » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:08 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:23 pm
Roughly 2000 and 700 are the lowest captain and FO experience you'll find in a regional cockpit. Are you comfortable getting on a plane knowing that?
The airlines have shown that that level of experience is sufficient for a crew to follow SOP's and get the machine from A to B safely therefore I am comfortable that they will get me from A to B safely.

How many occupations can you list where the entry requirements are basically knowing how to read and write and getting enough money to pay for the license except flying as a career?
Today's edition of The World According to C.W.E. is pilots are uneducated, don't need to be experienced, and have the easiest job ever created.

Tomorrow's edition will focus on why inexperienced pilots with no education can't fly an airplane without an autopilot.

It is a forever moving target so play at your own risk.

C.W.E. maybe you could remind us of how you were able to secure employment flying on movie sets? Is it because taking off, flying straight and level, and then landing is difficult? Or were you just better at it than everybody else? Or did the insurance company involved in such undertakings require lofty experience levels as history has shown us that a lack of experience bends metal and ends lives?

I think I can make a reasonable case that experience in an airplane can be considered valuable.
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Meatservo » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:14 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:17 pm
Anyone who has hauled the drill itself, followed by all the lumber, salt, bentonite, and fuel, into a subarctic exploration drill site in the winter, actually f*ck even the summer- everything's harder to handle over the floats- would not complain about the work not being hard enough or the flying being too easy.
For sure the lading and unloading was hard work.

However I personally did not think flying the airplane was all that difficult. :)
Well, be that as it may Chuck, everybody knows you're more naturally talented and courageous than a human, so your opinion can hardly be taken seriously. I personally have encountered a lot of challenges flying drill in different planes, mostly due to weather and barely suitable landing surfaces. And I'm pretty fucking good at it, you can take my word.

The fact is, your truck-driving analogy is invalid. You might enjoy pointing out that flying an airliner can't be that hard as evidenced by the age and inexperience of the people doing it, but there are also eighteen-year-old truckers who make out just fine. I saw a four-year-old on YouTube who could play the drums just like John Bonham. It's pretty obvious that you expect people to admire the apparent ease and nonchalance with which you claim to operate. I congratulate you on being so arrogant and surviving to your ripe old age. I guess the saying isn't true after all.

You seem to believe that you deserve some "street cred" for all your flying adventures, while simultaneously downplaying the validity of other pilots' tribulations and challenges. Well, congratulations. I bet I could make a Canso walk and talk, too. I fly an airliner now and there are still some days I wish I had stayed at home. I'm a lot cleaner at the end of the day, that much is true.

Like I say, the "knights of the road" over on the truck-driving forum never heard of you.
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by 7ECA » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:37 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:23 pm
How many occupations can you list where the entry requirements are basically knowing how to read and write and getting enough money to pay for the license except flying as a career?
Arguably that would be each and every career/job around.
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by C.W.E. » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:03 pm

You seem to believe that you deserve some "street cred" for all your flying adventures, while simultaneously downplaying the validity of other pilots' tribulations and challenges. Well, congratulations.
Hey meatservo what you are saying about flying off strip and in the cold is very difficult and I should not be making light of it.

I can see where it looks like I am being far to critical of the industry and am retracting my comments.

Somehow I have drifted off into the world of trolling just for the sake of trolling and I have no idea how I managed to morph into this stage.

For sure aviation was good for me and I should not be making light of the industry.

I wish you all the best and hope you have a safe career.


Chuck E.
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Meatservo
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Meatservo » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:41 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:03 pm


Hey meatservo what you are saying about flying off strip and in the cold is very difficult and I should not be making light of it.

I can see where it looks like I am being far to critical of the industry and am retracting my comments.

Somehow I have drifted off into the world of trolling just for the sake of trolling and I have no idea how I managed to morph into this stage.

For sure aviation was good for me and I should not be making light of the industry.

I wish you all the best and hope you have a safe career.


Chuck E.
I have to admit, I enjoy a bit of trolling myself. I'm sorry for calling you out.
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by C.W.E. » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:06 pm

I have to admit, I enjoy a bit of trolling myself. I'm sorry for calling you out.
Not to worry, we both have been around to long to get all out of shape by anything we read or post here.

I renewed my medical this spring in case I decide to want to fly something.

The good news is I am as healthy as a sixteen year old even though I am 83 so my plan is to just keep on going until I start to age.

And I am in the process of building a Thatcher CX4 to give me something to do.

My garage is now a 20 X 30 foot airplane construction hanger and the cars live outside until I get it built.

I was going to build a mechanical sheep but my wife thought it was a disgusting project so I decided on the CX4. :mrgreen:
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Lightchop » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:03 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:48 am
I
n that sense, it does not require a lot of physical effort. But because of those time I had to hoist passengers onto a ship in heavy seas, because of that flight in a storm over the North Sea where I didn't know how the hell I would land the aircraft, because of those xwind landings from breaking out at minimums, because of that missed approach at min fuel, because of that transit in formation in cloud a 36k because we didn't break on top, because the AC packing it in over Lake Superior scared the crap outta me (funny story actually), because of helo ops in mountains, because I painted myself in a corner VFR in 1/8 SM weather with min fuel, because focusing on a landing gear indicator light or forgetting the flaps for take-off or taking off/landing on the wrong runway (only to name a few examples) has killed crews and passengers in the past, etc... etc.., you'll never hear me say it's an easy job. Just because it's not physical doesn't mean it's easy.
And who exactly made the decisions that put you in those positions?
Chuck why don't you go to Palm Springs like every other octogenarian. Your senile ranting and rhetorical questioning here is getting old.
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by confusedalot » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:56 pm

If the OP is still reading, may I point out that every station in life has it's downsides. I cannot know what your work experience was outside of an airplane cockpit, but I can indicate that I have worked outside of airplane operations, some aviation related, some not, due to bankruptcies, mass layoffs and the like, and it is not exactly like other walks of life are free of issues. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, I personally have found operating airplanes a better place to be. Not perfect by any means, but better.
Mention has been made about the pilot whiners, even those who have good situations. Sadly, very true. Justified? Not really. I've had much higher demands placed on me outside of a cockpit, like everyone else I was working with.
You won't get a dream job straight out of the gate, but the waiting time for said dream job and the effort or sacrifice to get there is by far the smallest since the last 40 or 50 years. Six months or a year of sticking it out is not very long considering that multiple decades of good, very good, and even fantastic situations appear to be available.
Even doctors must endure years of school (in some cases putting themselves through school waiting tables), followed by residency with punishing schedules, until they "make it". Electricians and plumbers make good money, but only after a few years of so-so paid apprenticeship. Would not recommend minimum wage jobs over a pilot job.
Timing is everything. Now is the time. Wish I was born either decades later or decades earlier.
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