Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Got a hot employment or interview tip to help a fellow aviator find a job or looking for a little job advice place your posting here.

Moderators: North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako

Just another canuck
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1927
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:21 am
Location: The Lake.

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by Just another canuck »

I never said AC sucked. It is arguably the best airline job in Canada. I can't and won't deny that. I'm simply sticking up for the other guys. I happen to really like my job and based on my lifestyle, where I live and where I want to be, Transat was the best choice for me.

I'm not bragging about working less. I've always liked my job but I like spending time at home more. I wasn't ripping AC for the bailout or whatever you want to call it, but it's easy to advertise job security when even when you fail, the government won't let you. Would TS get the same treatment? What about Westjet? I doubt it.

We work less because of our transition periods in the Spring and Fall. We're very busy January to March and July and August. Commuters like myself can get 6 day pairings during these months. If you live in yyz or yul and want turns, you can finish your block in as little as 7 days. But always 10 or less.

Right now, a WB captain will max out at 215 hourly at 80 hours a month which is the guarantee. Works out to about 223 a year I think. We have RRSP matching at 140% to max 5%. I believe it's going to 160% next year. Our benefits are very good. Our long term is very good... 10 years. You won't spend months on end on reserve. Great sked from day one and quick advancement.

We'll be in negotiations again soon. Hopefully things get even better. And hopefully all of us at AC, Transat, Westjet and the rest all have bright futures ahead.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
TheStig
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by TheStig »

Just another canuck wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:14 am I wasn't ripping AC for the bailout or whatever you want to call it, but it's easy to advertise job security when even when you fail, the government won't let you. Would TS get the same treatment? What about Westjet? I doubt it.
Really good post JAC, thanks for adding your perspective. I can see how you feel, as someone outside of AC that somehow the government supports AC because it is a common misconception. I'd say that the government has a history of interfering with Air Canada, forcing a merger with CAL, legislating FOS but like the postal shrive we are in a Federally regulated industry. I think as pilots we all tend to hold the view that all Canadian carriers are burdened by a number of monopolies such as NavCanada, Catsa and the airport authorities. I can tell you that no one at AC feels like the government will bail us out if we fail, in fact the prospect of dealing with another Cerberus like hedge fund in CCAA a second time was one of the driving factors behind ACPA capitulating so much from 2008-2011. Lack of interference is why AC is as competitive globally today as it is.
---------- ADS -----------
 
RVR6000
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:25 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by RVR6000 »

nwopilot wrote: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:40 pm Those numbers someone posted from a screenshot for Transat are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Outdated. Add about 35 k onto those numbers. In theory. you could be at the top of the widebody scale with 14 years into the company.
Can you please post your current pay-rates here.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Speedalive
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:37 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by Speedalive »

---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4250
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by altiplano »

Just another canuck wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:14 am a WB captain will max out at 215 hourly at 80 hours a month which is the guarantee. Works out to about 223 a year I think.
You mentioned it so...

for the mathematically challenged

max $215/hr x 80 hours x 12 months = about 206 a year... in 14 years...

... no question anyone doing $200K+ is doing alright. Those are AC narrow body captain rates though which guys are doing here in about 2 years if they are so inclined... admitted, it might not stay that way forever, 2 year upgrades... but nor will 4 year TS upgrades.

As I said, AC are the most productive pilot group in NA to earn it - no question. We have most NB guys working 12-16 a month. I was 16 days/mo in July/Aug... 9 days last month was a pretty good breather, but it was a lower hour month too... Christmas off this month too... hardly "brutal" and I don't mind earning my pay... it's a pretty good job.

Stig is right on re:"bailouts"... AC provides plenty for the politicians, between generating a ton of cash and jobs, forced mergers, and a soapbox to stand on for the issue-du-jour, everything from French Language to Airline Passenger Rights to a scape goat for public complaining about something that isn't the government.

Anyways... Here's to everyone going in the right direction on pay, a great career wherever they think suits them, and keeping it safe...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Just another canuck
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1927
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:21 am
Location: The Lake.

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by Just another canuck »

Yeah, I screwed that up. I can admit when I was wrong.

There are a number of things we're hoping to improve in the next contract. Pay is certainly always one of them.

I just think all things considered, we're doing pretty good at Transat. And I'm here to defend them. When I hear fellow aviators from the regionals or the 703/4 world say things like so when are you gonna apply to AC or would you actually retire there, it just goes to show how out of touch some folks are.

Who knows, maybe the southern border will open the doors to pilots and the only one left standing will be a downsized AC with a handful of routes.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
Speedalive
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:37 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by Speedalive »

Out of curiosity, does Transat send their pilots to Germany with that Condor aircraft exchange deal? That would be pretty neat.
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL320
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by FL320 »

I spoke to 2 close friends recently, they both spent almost 3 years at AC and they resigned. They went to a LCC in Europe flying widebodies (LCC that pays better than AC on the same payscale). They both really disliked their experience at AC, mainly because of the mentality. They don’t regret the move. So no, everyone do not want to work at AC.

When I was at Sunwing, one Captain (less than 10 years in the company) showed me his last T4...slightly above 300k. This guy and many others were laughing when I was asking if they were interested in AC.
I am now at Air Transat and I love the job! I would never leave for AC. I talked to my friends at AC and I have compared both in terms of benefits and lifestyle, it’s not worth it anymore. We have very few guys leaving to AC, but they have been less than a year or so at TS. They chase the long term job security, nothing more. It’s certainly not for the pay, as they would if they could -like most of us- go to a real major airline abroad.
From January up to today I flew 470h, I really can’t complain..and I will make exactly the same T4 than my friend at Rouge on the same payscale.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by FL320 on Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zaibatsu
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:37 am

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by Zaibatsu »

I think it comes down to individual preferences rather than any hard and fast qualities.

Those who are younger are looking at years of seniority that will pay off big after decades might choose Air Canada. Those who are older are looking for quick advances to high payscales might not. Those who have been burned by Skyservice or Kelowna Flightcraft might be looking for stability at Air Canada. Those for whom aviation is an adventure might not.

There are no right answers, and everyone chooses their own path. As you can see, not everyone chooses Air Canada, partially because the extremely high pay and lifestyle at the end is offset by low pay and poor schedule at the beginning, even in this, a pilot shortage, where compensation and advancement is unparalleled.

I might join Air Canada. I don't think I'm their type of pilot and I don't think it's my kind of flying, but I'd do better there than anywhere else in the country. Outside of the country is great until health starts failing or wars start or you get sick of not being able to see family often or other worldly BS we don't have to deal with in Canada. But I'm keeping my options open too, there's more to life than money.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Just another canuck
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1927
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:21 am
Location: The Lake.

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by Just another canuck »

Speedalive wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:24 pm Out of curiosity, does Transat send their pilots to Germany with that Condor aircraft exchange deal? That would be pretty neat.
They did not. Although they did have layovers in Düsseldorf I believe. We did have a contract in Poland last year that was around 5 1/2 months I think. You could bid for first half, second half or both. You received a car and a condo and I could be wrong, but a per diem of around 215 US a day, which ran continuously whether you were in Poland, on layover somewhere else or commuted home for your days off. We've also done the Hajj in the past out of Indonesia but it's been a few years for that. Different contracts come up on a year by year basis.

I'm slightly out of touch with this stuff because I'm not pure 330 so I've never had the opportunity to bid therefore haven't looked as much into them.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
RVR6000
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:25 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by RVR6000 »

FL320 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:48 pm When I was at Sunwing, one Captain (less than 10 years in the company) showed me his last T4...slightly above 300k. This guy and many others were laughing when I was asking if they were interested in AC.

The top scale captain rate at Sunwing according to the contract posted is $198.82. To get 300k at that rate the overtime structure must be quite lucrative and this captain is doing 100+ hr months throughout the year.

It’s like a few rouge 767 captains pulling over $400k. It’s not the norm and these people are burning themselves out. I know a guy who did over $60k in a month, also worked 23 days that month.

Compare posted rates at 80 hours a month. Both Transat and Sunwing rates are equivalent or less than AC narrow body captain rates.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by RVR6000 on Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
ant_321
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:43 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by ant_321 »

RVR6000 wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:25 am
FL320 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:48 pm When I was at Sunwing, one Captain (less than 10 years in the company) showed me his last T4...slightly above 300k. This guy and many others were laughing when I was asking if they were interested in AC.

The top scale captain rate at Sunwing according to the contract posted is $198.82. To get 300k at that rate the overtime structure must be quite lucrative and this captain is doing 100+ hr months throughout the year.

It’s like a few rouge 767 pulling over $400k. It’s not the norm and these people burning themselves out.
Overtime is very lucrative at SWG. I would think nearly everyone at the top of the pay scale is bringing in $250k+. The highest T4 I've seen was close to 400.
---------- ADS -----------
 
munzil
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:09 am

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by munzil »

RVR6000 wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:25 am
FL320 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:48 pm When I was at Sunwing, one Captain (less than 10 years in the company) showed me his last T4...slightly above 300k. This guy and many others were laughing when I was asking if they were interested in AC.

The top scale captain rate at Sunwing according to the contract posted is $198.82. To get 300k at that rate the overtime structure must be quite lucrative and this captain is doing 100+ hr months throughout the year.

It’s like a few rouge 767 captains pulling over $400k. It’s not the norm and these people are burning themselves out. I know a guy who did over $60k in a month, also worked 23 days that month.

Compare posted rates at 80 hours a month. Both Transat and Sunwing rates are equivalent or less than AC narrow body captain rates.
This is normal for a good proportion of Sunwing Captains who will spend 6 months in europe with all the extras thrown in there. Also if they take a winter base in Canada - more money there. No overtime required.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4250
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by altiplano »

munzil wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:25 pmThis is normal for a good proportion of Sunwing Captains who will spend 6 months in europe with all the extras thrown in there. Also if they take a winter base in Canada - more money there. No overtime required.
Do I understand you right?

$300K+ is normal for Captains at Sunwing?
Without OT?
Do you mean including expenses, etc?
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL320
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by FL320 »

altiplano wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:43 pm
munzil wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:25 pmThis is normal for a good proportion of Sunwing Captains who will spend 6 months in europe with all the extras thrown in there. Also if they take a winter base in Canada - more money there. No overtime required.
Do I understand you right?

$300K+ is normal for Captains at Sunwing?
Without OT?
Do you mean including expenses, etc?
Like they were saying..one of the best kept secret :wink:
And I will add a side note: I often flew with foreign Captains at Sunwing (not saying I agree with this practice) but they are also making very good money. Next time you seat next to one of these guys in the crew bus, don't believe they are cheap pilots from Europe, these guys are making more money than most of us (including AC Captains)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by FL320 on Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
dhc#
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:38 am

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by dhc# »

And how well can FO's do ???
---------- ADS -----------
 
munzil
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:09 am

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by munzil »

FL320 wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:47 pm Like they were saying..one of the best kept secret :wink:
Very few Captain's at Sunwing would want to go to AC and only a few junior FO's. We all want something different in life, and for many AC is far from the ideal. Hell, many corporate pilots would never work schedule, many Cargo Pilots love not dealing with Passengers and Security, with Weekends off and only 7 flight days a month,

Horses for courses. it's not a competition.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Handover
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:55 am

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by Handover »

dhc# wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:52 pm And how well can FO's do ???
Base salary is about $56k. extra 6k for training if you are Montreal base. You can look at about 8k extra a month in per diem (tax free) if you take a european base up to 6 months.

1.5k extra, apartment and a car for winter basing. Overtime is 2x.

Could possibly do 100k for first year. Well over 100k with basing from second year

Lets not forget, a lot of time at home.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Handover on Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FL320
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by FL320 »

dhc,

Year 2 FO I made 96 000$ few years ago, add some per diems (maybe 2000$ as I didn't go to Europe), some overtime at x2 every months
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4250
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Why does everyone want to work at Air Canada?

Post by altiplano »

FL320 wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:47 pm
altiplano wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:43 pm
munzil wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:25 pmThis is normal for a good proportion of Sunwing Captains who will spend 6 months in europe with all the extras thrown in there. Also if they take a winter base in Canada - more money there. No overtime required.
Do I understand you right?

$300K+ is normal for Captains at Sunwing?
Without OT?
Do you mean including expenses, etc?
Like they were saying..one of the best kept secret :wink:
Good discussion. But I'm having a hard time understanding how you get to $300K without OT at under $200/hr...

I think we're getting away from a base comparison if you want to start adding per diems and OT...

I mean AC has OT too, 1.5-2.5x depending, good per diems - esp overseas, stock match, pension, profit share, good benefits paid by employer... how much does family dental & extended health cost at TS or SW? Disability? etc...

As has been mentioned, for those inclined... there are some 320 FOs doing +200K, some LCC CAs doing +400K, the motivated can do it, or close to...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Employment Forum”