COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

Hey, often times, when I buy a ticket, and go through security to ride in someone's big jet, I get randomly selected for a secondary inspection. It's random, no due cause (I did not trigger the walk through machine).

I was sent to Las Angeles, by a friend to look at a couple of tiger moths, a couple of weeks after the bombing/bombing threat of the terminal at LA on an EL AL flight ( I think it was cheapest for him LOL ) They took me in to interview me ( 2 of them) then a row of machines to go through my baggage, then physically walk me to the boarding gate, then I put my shoes back on. That was not theatre that was for real. What you have nowadays is simply THEATRE for appeasing the masses and giving the slimy politicians an excuse to say they have done something !


The very fact you got RANDOMLY selected without due cause for increased checks proves it is both theatre and political correctness and a JOKE !

RANDOMLY pulling someone over on a highway is NOT for getting the bad guys off the highway either !
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Schooner69A
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Schooner69A »

Well, at least we put the COPA pilot checks thing to bed...

:lol:
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AirFrame
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by AirFrame »

Schooner69A wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:59 pmIt is what it is. You either want to support the program or you don't. If you don't want to volunteer your time, this is an easy way out; don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.
I support the CFK program, and I support security/safety procedures that are effective. I don't support security theatre, that satisfies someone's desire to "do something" when it doesn't address the issues.

Require security checks for all CFK volunteers, or don't require security checks at all. Until this is fixed, I will be standing down from the program.
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Schooner69A
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Schooner69A »

"...I will be standing down from the program...

That is unfortunate. However, from the December issue of COPA Flight:

"In the end it boiled down to a combination of our lawyers and insurance providers both telling us that there was not much of a future for COPA for Kids without some sort of industry-standard, recognized vetting of those working directly in positions with the kids."

So, our invective should not be aimed at the personnel at COPA HQ: I think they're just as pi**ed as we are. However, if we want to continue exposing children to the joy of flight, I think we'll just have to "grit our teeth" and get on with it.

In one sense, we should be thankful that only the pilots have been singled out: consider that we "drivers airframe" constitute but a small part of the personnel required to mount "COPA for Kids". Whether a 2-airplane event or a 20-airplane event, there still exists the need for upwards of a dozen-and-a-half people in the background greeting kids, sorting kids, enrolling kids, briefing kids, escorting kids, boarding kids, deplaning kids, etc etc. Think what would happen if a security check was required for all and many said "Eff it!".

To paraphrase "Joey" in the movie 'Shane": 'Come back, Airframe; come back!" :D
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

The slower one goes on the highway, the safer it is . I suggest that ( due to liability and "safety" concerns ) that ALL motorized vehicles are to be speed limited to 20 KPH on all highways! There will be folks that say that its the way it is going, you either drive 20 kph or don't drive at all.. Others will say that we need to do this to stop global warming. Remember folks, driving or owning a bicycle or breathing are ALL a privilege, after we submit and pay! Just as the frog is happily sitting in the bowl of heating water, The Canadian is happily watching his/her country being swallowed up by socialist/marxist/communist ideologies and freedoms and common sense and the rule of law is being thrown by the wayside!

The issue of getting a police check on your history is not so much about inconvenience or unfairness, it is more about the above mentioned elephants in the room !
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

I support the CFK program, and I support security/safety procedures that are effective. I don't support security theatre, that satisfies someone's desire to "do something" when it doesn't address the issues.

Require security checks for all CFK volunteers, or don't require security checks at all. Until this is fixed, I will be standing down from the program.

Who could have spoken the truth in a more succinctly manner than this poster ( emphasis mine )
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C.W.E.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by C.W.E. »

I wouldn't even consider being part of this program.

Life is difficult enough without worrying that my colleagues in aviation think I am a child molester so seriously I need to be examined by some group of similar thinking people.
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

In Penticton BC, the police chief is saying that vehicle owners should be CHARGED if they leave their cars unlocked! Another case of the innocent being blamed for the thief's actions ! In our Liberal, lawless valley, the criminals go through the legal system like a continuous revolving door, the laws are a joke and the system is broken, and the innocent are continually revictimized!
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

the police chief is saying that vehicle owners should be CHARGED if they leave their cars unlocked
My apologies, it was councillor Campbell Watt who said "I'd almost like to see us create a bylaw that tickets unlocked vehicles"
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AirFrame
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by AirFrame »

Schooner69A wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:46 amThink what would happen if a security check was required for all and many said "Eff it!".
If that's what they did, I wouldn't be standing down. I would agree that it's a reasonable action to take. But to require *only* the pilots, who have the smallest window of opportunity to interfere with a child at a CFK event, is insane. I'm disappointed in the COPA board for agreeing to this, but i'm also not impressed with an insurance company that thinks it will improve their bottom line.
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Schooner69A
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Schooner69A »

"If that's what they did, I wouldn't be standing down"

You and I do it because we like flying. (I'm presuming you're a pilot).

However, many of our ground support staff are not and if they think the same way you do, the whole program could falter.

I think it unconscionable that insurance companies won't insure an octogenarian if he/she is a new customer or if there's been a lapse in policy but will continue coverage if there's a policy in existence. However, it's their circus; their rules.

So, if COPA's insurance company says: "Here's the rules to continue doing what you're doing", you either fish or cut bait.

I'll be going fishing in the new year...
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by AirFrame »

Schooner69A wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:23 amYou and I do it because we like flying. (I'm presuming you're a pilot).

However, many of our ground support staff are not and if they think the same way you do, the whole program could falter.
I'm not sure what the demographics of the support staff are for other CFK events, but the ones i've been involved in have been predominantly staffed by pilots and spouses of pilots. Not all of the pilots bring their planes out for it (a Cessna 172 or Piper can carry 3 kids per flight as opposed to a Cessna 150 or an RV, so the larger planes are more efficient for running large numbers of kids through) but the pilots still want to help out.

We've had a hard time getting enough pilots to fly in the past, I think this will just drive more of them away and the whole program will falter anyway. Time will tell, this will come up at the next club meeting so it will be interesting to hear what people there think. We do have a couple of teachers in the club who I think already have the security check, so they can speak to it.
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

so the larger planes are more efficient for running large numbers of kids through) but the pilots still want to help out.
Sounds to me like an overnight CARGO operation!

When I attended a CFK event, I took the time to teach the children how the plane flies and let them all fly the plane while many others were treating the kids like cargo ( Were they there to get their volunteering badges ?)
I HOPE things have changed !
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Wilbur
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Wilbur »

Haven’t read through the entire thread, so not sure if any has already covered this off. There’s little to no risk of a pedophile pilot molesting some kid during a 20 minute flight. However, a pilot who is a pedophile will very likely seize the opportunity to meet kids, start building relationships, meet parents and start building trust. The initial CFK flight leads to an offer to take the family flying on another day, which eventually leads to taking little Johnny or Susie flying without the parents. A few flights without the parents involve incrementally sexulized conversations and ultimately physical contact. The whole process is called grooming. Make no mistake, pedophiles are always looking for opportunities to access and groom victims. Any event, activity or organization targeting kids will unintentionally also be attracting pedophiles. VSS screening will at least deter the pedophiles known to law enforcement. A VSS check takes about 30 minutes at your local police station. Fill out a form, provide electronic finger prints and you’re done. I’ve never heard of a police service charge a fee for people volunteering, although there may be some that do. However, be aware that a VSS covers all types of criminal behaviour victimizing individual people. Sex offences, financial crimes, theft, robbery, assault, etc are all included.
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rookiepilot
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by rookiepilot »

Wilbur wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:08 pm Haven’t read through the entire thread, so not sure if any has already covered this off. There’s little to no risk of a pedophile pilot molesting some kid during a 20 minute flight. However, a pilot who is a pedophile will very likely seize the opportunity to meet kids, start building relationships, meet parents and start building trust.
This. Exactly.

I really wonder about those who are eager to volunteer with kids and yet voraciously complain about such a simple requirement.

To blend with the other thread -- we are moving rapidly towards a world that bashes "traditional family" Christians as bigots -----already happening -- and protects the pedophiles as entitled to take advantage of children.

Just watch the laws being proposed out there. (Not necessarily in Canada -- yet)

How horrifying.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by C.W.E. »

I really wonder about those who are eager to volunteer with kids and yet voraciously complain about such a simple requirement.

To blend with the other thread -- we are moving rapidly towards a world that bashes "traditional family" Christians as bigots -----already happening -- and protects the pedophiles as entitled to take advantage of children.

Interesting thoughts, thinking back on things I have said here such as I would not do volunteer flights with kids again if I had to go through a mandatory police check and I am an Atheist I guess in the eyes of some I could be a paedophile and an anti christian heathen.

But I will do my best to try and live with all this.

Society sure can be perplexing.
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Wilbur
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Wilbur »

If had a dollar for every pervert I worked with who had a bible tucked under his arm, I could have retired years earlier. If your god is the only thing keeping you from harming others, you need mental health care.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by AirFrame »

Wilbur wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:08 pmHaven’t read through the entire thread, so not sure if any has already covered this off. There’s little to no risk of a pedophile pilot molesting some kid during a 20 minute flight. However, a pilot who is a pedophile will very likely seize the opportunity to meet kids, start building relationships, meet parents and start building trust.
And a pilot who's a pedophile and wants to meet kids and start building relationships, will simply volunteer to assist on the CFK day instead. Because the ground crew isn't required to get a background check. So they get past the VSS screening, *and* they get more time with the kids! All of the stuff about offering to fly another day can still happen.
rookiepilot wrote:I really wonder about those who are eager to volunteer with kids and yet voraciously complain about such a simple requirement.
Security theatre, which this is, does not deserve support. Make the requirement mandatory for everyone at the CFK event, and I will support it 100%.
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Schooner69A
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Schooner69A »

Airframe:

I wasn't quite clear in my response to which you replied.

Most of our ground support staff are also pilots and spouses; however, what I did not make clear is that, although they are pilots, they do not fly in C4K events: either they don't have an aircraft, don't have access to an aircraft, don't have a valid licence, or don't insure their aircraft for the event.


We have C4K pilots who have strong feelings about the process and have indicated they will not participate: can you imagine what would happen if there existed a requirement to do all non-flying personnel as well?

I agree that the security check is a nonsensical requirement; but it is not the doing of COPA; if we're going to sling crotte at anyone, it should be the insurance company.

One of our members is undergoing the check now and will report back - probably at the next meeting.
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

2 words yellow jackets!
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