$500 WJPA dollars. Whatever the hell those are.
I pay my mortgage in CAD.... ?
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$500 WJPA dollars. Whatever the hell those are.
Hi KAG. I think that what you are asking is an issue that defies a low resolution answer, as much as we pilots would like to strictly make it about an apple to apples comparison, citing that we all do the same job, in the same airspace.KAG wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:14 am John, yup ya won that bet. I never would have thought anyone with a basic understanding of aviation would rule to allow swoops current wages to continue.
So heres my homework for you if your up to it, what is the lowest paying 737 captain jobs in north America, then extend out globally. I'll bet swoop will be near the extreme bottom.
China_CAAC_Exam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:01 amHi KAG. I think that what you are asking is an issue that defies a low resolution answer, as much as we pilots would like to strictly make it about an apple to apples comparison, citing that we all do the same job, in the same airspace.KAG wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:14 am John, yup ya won that bet. I never would have thought anyone with a basic understanding of aviation would rule to allow swoops current wages to continue.
So heres my homework for you if your up to it, what is the lowest paying 737 captain jobs in north America, then extend out globally. I'll bet swoop will be near the extreme bottom.
If you manage to make a career out of an airline pilot job, without layoff or company failure, or demotion or loss of base, consider yourself fortunate. If you join an airline with preconceived expectations or an attitude of entitlement, I fear that you are setting yourself up for failure. A few are fortunate. My buddy at AC left Air Nova when all the senior pilots there were pressuring pilots to stay, in support of their fight against ACPA. He ignored them, and I understand will be retiring at the top of the list.
Make your decisions, learn to deal with disappointment (that's reality according to Dr JBP) and accept that you aren't in control of the levers of life.
The CBA we are getting was totally foreseeable. It is neither better than or less than what one would expect in a first contract at WJ. I'm certainly not surprised, nor am I angry at the result. Certainly we are not further ahead than we were with the WJPA as a result of what we pilots have done to the image of the company, and what we have done to promote toxic unionization among other employee groups.
The Swoop episode alone shows how utterly powerless ALPA's vaunted tool box is. It's filled with hot air and boasting. Nothing more.
Anyway, time to move on. More dragons to slay.
TTFN
Johnny Boy
Can someone please explain to me if there is a definitive answer regarding the "one-list" question?Demeter wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:44 am Good points and I think the hype generated by those that were organizing are now realizing they were looking through rose coloured glasses and promised what could not be delivered. KAG you were guilty of this too and I hope you guys actually come out and apologize to us. Kaplan isn’t dumb and I hear he had the respect of both groups. I also think the wrong guy ran the Alpa shop outta the gates. Wrong path, wrong foot. Love the guy we have in now and I believe it’s time to move forward. John won the bet on one list too since we have to merge everything together down the road. Not as dumb as you guys try and portray him as.
China_CAAC_Exam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:01 amHi KAG. I think that what you are asking is an issue that defies a low resolution answer, as much as we pilots would like to strictly make it about an apple to apples comparison, citing that we all do the same job, in the same airspace.KAG wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:14 am John, yup ya won that bet. I never would have thought anyone with a basic understanding of aviation would rule to allow swoops current wages to continue.
So heres my homework for you if your up to it, what is the lowest paying 737 captain jobs in north America, then extend out globally. I'll bet swoop will be near the extreme bottom.
If you manage to make a career out of an airline pilot job, without layoff or company failure, or demotion or loss of base, consider yourself fortunate. If you join an airline with preconceived expectations or an attitude of entitlement, I fear that you are setting yourself up for failure. A few are fortunate. My buddy at AC left Air Nova when all the senior pilots there were pressuring pilots to stay, in support of their fight against ACPA. He ignored them, and I understand will be retiring at the top of the list.
Make your decisions, learn to deal with disappointment (that's reality according to Dr JBP) and accept that you aren't in control of the levers of life.
The CBA we are getting was totally foreseeable. It is neither better than or less than what one would expect in a first contract at WJ. I'm certainly not surprised, nor am I angry at the result. Certainly we are not further ahead than we were with the WJPA as a result of what we pilots have done to the image of the company, and what we have done to promote toxic unionization among other employee groups.
The Swoop episode alone shows how utterly powerless ALPA's vaunted tool box is. It's filled with hot air and boasting. Nothing more.
Anyway, time to move on. More dragons to slay.
TTFN
Johnny Boy
So no change to pay at Swoop by the arbitrator??
Uh huh. Sure.
Lighten up Francis...
Sounds like that was the risk. Rolled the dice pay the price.
I believe the issue of freezes has not been revealed. Westjet must maintain 90% of the pilot positions on the WPSL as of two days ago. That means that as 787's come on strength, NG tails will be transferred over to Swoop and eventually there may/will be approximately 150-170 less pilots at mainline. How we get to that position, while accounting for the addition of new fatigue rules and reserve, is a good game at the bar with napkins and peanuts. Will WJ need the current levels of staffing at YYC/YVR/YYZ on the NG? Who knows.
Document I read says TAFB 1:4.Red1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:07 pm "If you’re at work, get paid. Minimum credit was the one thing that WestJet feared. No more sitting in Newfoundland for 52 hours with no pay, essentially on reserve for zero pay. No more all day at work for an hour of pay. Minimum credit and duty rigs are normal ops at other airlines, but a huge leap forward for WS pilots."
Umm you might want to re-read this section, there is a difference between a min daily credit and a min duty period credit. A duty credit is generally applied while on duty.