Classic Dash replacement??

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goingnowherefast
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by goingnowherefast »

Nah, couldn't be. Metros make great gravel airplanes :lol:
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Splash
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Splash »

Rowdy wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:02 pm
goingnowherefast wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:08 pm Aren't they just extending the life of the -300s?

I'm sure a big enough order, and Viking would make some Q300NGs
They are attempting to extend the life of the -311's, as it seems the -301s are kaput once the gear is out of spec. GSTA went in for its extension and lo and behold, ended up being parted out and cut up. I think a few more may end up that way in the very near future.

Supposedly a few years ago BBD approached Jazz/Chorus and offered to spool up the production line if they made a reasonable order. Doubt that would ever happen.

It does leave a pretty big gap in some of our route structure.

GGN's 1900 base in YYZ is done. Supposedly Calgary is next on the chopping block. Rumour says CMA for red deer and med hat. Classic dash for lethbridge and cranbrook.
The 301s are the orginal Time Air machines of which there were 10. Does that mean all 10 will be withdrawn from service? If I'm correct there are 18 311s which in theory should be able to go through the lifetime extension program?
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Rowdy
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Rowdy »

Splash wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:39 pm
Rowdy wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:02 pm
goingnowherefast wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:08 pm Aren't they just extending the life of the -300s?

I'm sure a big enough order, and Viking would make some Q300NGs
They are attempting to extend the life of the -311's, as it seems the -301s are kaput once the gear is out of spec. GSTA went in for its extension and lo and behold, ended up being parted out and cut up. I think a few more may end up that way in the very near future.

Supposedly a few years ago BBD approached Jazz/Chorus and offered to spool up the production line if they made a reasonable order. Doubt that would ever happen.

It does leave a pretty big gap in some of our route structure.

GGN's 1900 base in YYZ is done. Supposedly Calgary is next on the chopping block. Rumour says CMA for red deer and med hat. Classic dash for lethbridge and cranbrook.
The 301s are the orginal Time Air machines of which there were 10. Does that mean all 10 will be withdrawn from service? If I'm correct there are 18 311s which in theory should be able to go through the lifetime extension program?
There are 301's that are ex Air Ontario birds too. They can have the life extension too, but with the apparent gear issue.. I'm not sure the company will throw the money at them anymore. Parts are quite valuable on the market now..
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Canoehead
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Canoehead »

Splash wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:39 pm The 301s are the orginal Time Air machines of which there were 10. Does that mean all 10 will be withdrawn from service? If I'm correct there are 18 311s which in theory should be able to go through the lifetime extension program?
Air Ontario also had 4 301's in their fleet. Not sure how many of those remain (GMON, GNON, GUON and GVON).
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fish4life
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by fish4life »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-140

basically a 300 series


these would be great 737-200 replacements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-74
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot »

It will be interesting as maybe this is why the company approached Jazz ALPA in Nov to start talks about "fleet renewal and medium/long term planning". I assumed it had to do with GGN 1900's and the 301s not being able to be extended. I can only imagine keeping the 311's going for as long as possible on the small super necessary dash routes and most likely more Q's? Reduce frequency and up the seat count with the Qs. We will see......only time will tell but the Jan equipment bid coming up will be extremely telling.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by HansDietrich »

The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by rudder »

In an environment where the limiting factor is pilot availability, a low gauge - high frequency strategy is clearly not sustainable. Pilot work is both denominated and limited by hours not ASM’s.

AC has already abandoned some Express B1900 routes. Others have been upgraded to Dash 8’s. It is becoming obvious that 19/37/50 seat aircraft are no longer part of a viable long term commercial plan.

All Express route/equipment/schedule decisions are made by AC. Perhaps in a perfect world AC would like to continue to use the Dash 8’s. But a confluence of factors are seemingly removing that option from the table.

I would look for some indication of the future of the 50 seat jets as well.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot »

HansDietrich wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.
Thank goodness you quit Jazz! Wouldn’t want to subject you to any more pain and suffering. My god the Classic Dash 8 has given you some serious PTSD. I hope that one day you will recover from the pain inflicted by Jazz and the DH8. God speed and hope to see you one day recovered from the “classic crap 8 experience”
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot »

As to the CRJ200, they are all slated to be retired by 2025 I believe as well. Jazz for sure one day will be a Q & RJ operator. The Classic at the moment is too lucrative for AC & Jazz to want to get rid of. Cheap on fuel & all paid off in Jazz books. Plus the routes the DH8 serves usually is the highest cost seats to buy as a passenger.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by HansDietrich »

KenoraPilot wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:23 pmThank goodness you quit Jazz! Wouldn’t want to subject you to any more pain and suffering. My god the Classic Dash 8 has given you some serious PTSD. I hope that one day you will recover from the pain inflicted by Jazz and the DH8. God speed and hope to see you one day recovered from the “classic crap 8 experience”


If you think a(n) (first world) airline, such as Air Canada, "VOTED #1 IN NORTH AMERICA... blah blah..." should still be flying 30+ year old airplanes that have more oil on them than paint, then you need to travel more "friend". Never mind what it did to me.

I didn't like that plane. Plain and simple. It's pathetic that AC customers / Star Alliance customers are subjected to it. I was honestly embarrassed to fly it. I felt like I was working for Buffalo Airways, but with a hat. The only thing missing was me on the wing of the -100, parked at Gate 101, with a mop in hand and a bucket of glycol, "gettin'er done" before my turn to Sudbury.
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Last edited by HansDietrich on Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by HansDietrich »

KenoraPilot wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:25 pm ...Plus the routes the DH8 serves usually is the highest cost seats to buy as a passenger...
Until Porter / Encore step in...
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

HansDietrich wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:25 pm
KenoraPilot wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:23 pmThank goodness you quit Jazz! Wouldn’t want to subject you to any more pain and suffering. My god the Classic Dash 8 has given you some serious PTSD. I hope that one day you will recover from the pain inflicted by Jazz and the DH8. God speed and hope to see you one day recovered from the “classic crap 8 experience”


If you think a(n) (first world) airline, such as Air Canada, "VOTED #1 IN NORTH AMERICA... blah blah..." should still be flying 30+ year old airplanes that have more oil on them than paint, then you need to travel more "friend". Never mind what it did to me.

I didn't like that plane. Plain and simple. It's pathetic that AC customers / Star Alliance customers are subjected to it. I was honestly embarrassed to fly it. I felt like I was working for Buffalo Airways, but with a hat. The only thing missing was me on the wing of the -100, parked at Gate 101, with a mop in hand and a bucket of glycol, "gettin'er done" before my turn to Sudbury".
What are you flying now?
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by fish4life »

HansDietrich wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:26 pm
KenoraPilot wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:25 pm ...Plus the routes the DH8 serves usually is the highest cost seats to buy as a passenger...
Until Porter / Encore step in...
How did that work in YSB
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by ant_321 »

HansDietrich wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.
You’re the only person I’ve heard of who flew the dash and hated it. Most guys love it. I’m assuming the dash isn’t shiny enough or big enough for your ego.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by HansDietrich »

ant_321 wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:50 pm
HansDietrich wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.
You’re the only person I’ve heard of who flew the dash and hated it. Most guys love it. I’m assuming the dash isn’t shiny enough or big enough for your ego.
It's not about my ego. It's an old plane. It's a plane that should've been retired a long time ago. The Q400 is a perfectly adequate aircraft. I would've loved to fly the Q400. Unfortunately Jazz freezes you on type for 4 years and I couldn't get off it, so I left... (that and other reasons... such as poor pay, etc. but that's a topic I've beaten to death here)
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot »

ant_321 wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:50 pm
HansDietrich wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.
You’re the only person I’ve heard of who flew the dash and hated it. Most guys love it. I’m assuming the dash isn’t shiny enough or big enough for your ego.
:prayer: :rolleyes:
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot »

HansDietrich wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:55 pm
ant_321 wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:50 pm
HansDietrich wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.
You’re the only person I’ve heard of who flew the dash and hated it. Most guys love it. I’m assuming the dash isn’t shiny enough or big enough for your ego.
It's not about my ego. It's an old plane. It's a plane that should've been retired a long time ago. The Q400 is a perfectly adequate aircraft. I would've loved to fly the Q400. Unfortunately Jazz freezes you on type for 4 years and I couldn't get off it, so I left... (that and other reasons... such as poor pay, etc. but that's a topic I've beaten to death here)
what are you flying these days? You bash the 8 but what are you currently enjoying now?
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by HansDietrich »

KenoraPilot wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:27 pm what are you flying these days? You bash the 8 but what are you currently enjoying now?
I'm flying corporate. It's not perfect, but I enjoy it a lot more than Jazz. The Citation I fly is much nicer, I have more time off to be with my wife and kids and I go to much nicer destinations. I'm much happier than I was at Jazz. I did enjoy the "anonymity" and job security there, but I couldn't stand flying that plane and its destinations. There is a time in a man's life, when his happiness is more important than the "status quo". I made the right decision. Of course, nothing's stopping me from going to other airlines, but for now, I like what I'm doing.

But, getting back on track with the topic at hand: "Classic Dash Replacement". I still stand by my comments and you know I'm right. This is not a plane that Air Canada needs to put forward. You can't make a good impression stepping off a 777 or 787 and getting on a -100 out of YYZ. It just doesn't look good, it doesn't fit, it's "Mikey Mouse" mate. It's 703 crap. It's Canadian North / Perimeter / Air Inuit / Air Creebec material, not AIR CANADA material. The Q400 is a perfect aircraft to replace the -100/-300.

I'm not sure if I've personally upset you, or you just don't care what your passengers think, but everything I experienced (as a pilot) aside, it's not an aircraft fit for Mainline. If you enjoy it, great, but don't try to sell it to me, or the public. It's not an attractive product anymore. It may have been back in the 90s, but not anymore.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by andy_mtl »

I have to agree with Hansdietrich.
I flew , to be exact , 1410 flights on the classic at Jazz.
While most the guys made it a blast and i had some serious great times, past the initial excitement i truly didnt enjoy the aircraft.

The summer you are sweating on the ground, the winter you are freezing.

If by chance you choose to climb out at prop 1050 , the poor passenger s ears are bleeding in the back.

Even with the syncrophaser on, most the times we had to manually sync the props to try making the best out of it.


The snags started piling up too.
I remember flying in the prairies over new years last year with a relatively new captain, with 7 Mels.


As it was mentioned above, the Q4 does a fine job in terms of performance and efficiency. The dh8 was great for what it was, but its time has come and it is time to move ti better options,as we have then availeable.
Andy
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