Things are brewing in the kitchen.

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Transition9er2
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Transition9er2 »

Thinking out loud....

What does this do to the equipment bid? do they start from scratch and let the entire company bid since it’s a pretty big expansion, or are we all frozen as per the ‘previous’ contract?

- would like to explore getting off the Q out west for a new look on something that’s NOT 6-8 legs a day for min credit!
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Outlaw58
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Outlaw58 »

Transition9er2 wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:40 pm Thinking out loud....

What does this do to the equipment bid? do they start from scratch and let the entire company bid since it’s a pretty big expansion, or are we all frozen as per the ‘previous’ contract?

- would like to explore getting off the Q out west for a new look on something that’s NOT 6-8 legs a day for min credit!
Interesting observation.

That might be something to ask for in the ratification vote, ie lifting the equipment freeze until the GGN integration is completed. It would allow for a 1:1 seniority ratio integration without running the risk that folks at Jazz feel cheated by GGN pilots who would fall junior to them at Jazz.

Worth looking into IMHO.

58
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Inverted2
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Inverted2 »

Outlaw58 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:58 am
Transition9er2 wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:40 pm Thinking out loud....

What does this do to the equipment bid? do they start from scratch and let the entire company bid since it’s a pretty big expansion, or are we all frozen as per the ‘previous’ contract?

- would like to explore getting off the Q out west for a new look on something that’s NOT 6-8 legs a day for min credit!
Interesting observation.

That might be something to ask for in the ratification vote, ie lifting the equipment freeze until the GGN integration is completed. It would allow for a 1:1 seniority ratio integration without running the risk that folks at Jazz feel cheated by GGN pilots who would fall junior to them at Jazz.

Worth looking into IMHO.

58
I don't think a 1:1 seniority ratio would go over well if a 3 year GGN pilot slides in ahead of a 30 year Jazz pilot. I think date of hire would be the best they could hope for. We'll all find out soon enough.
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Let’s Go Brandon
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Lightchop »

Inverted2 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:45 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:58 am
Transition9er2 wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:40 pm Thinking out loud....

What does this do to the equipment bid? do they start from scratch and let the entire company bid since it’s a pretty big expansion, or are we all frozen as per the ‘previous’ contract?

- would like to explore getting off the Q out west for a new look on something that’s NOT 6-8 legs a day for min credit!
Interesting observation.

That might be something to ask for in the ratification vote, ie lifting the equipment freeze until the GGN integration is completed. It would allow for a 1:1 seniority ratio integration without running the risk that folks at Jazz feel cheated by GGN pilots who would fall junior to them at Jazz.

Worth looking into IMHO.

58
I don't think a 1:1 seniority ratio would go over well if a 3 year GGN pilot slides in ahead of a 30 year Jazz pilot. I think date of hire would be the best they could hope for. We'll all find out soon enough.
30 years? Lol I'm pretty sure most of not all their pilots are like 2-3 maybe that's even pushing it. Hell, I heard they had a big exodus to Encore recently depending on the deal all those pilots might be kicking themselves.

If the union got me a raise, fixed the pay table and figured something out for AC flow, even if the GGN guys slot in above me and I'm sure a lot will I'll still be ok with that. It's time we start fixing this industry and treat other pilots with respect. No one knows the reason each individual took a job there. You can't blame them for feeding their families and working for scummy management. How many of us have worked for horrible 703 operators in the past for the same reasons?
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Yieldermatik
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Yieldermatik »

fish4life wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:05 pm
Yieldermatik wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:03 pm What does this mean to us in the pool waiting for ground schools? Do we get bumped for ggn pilots coming in without going through the hiring process?
my guess would be yes, which you can't possibly be mad at considering they are going to be out of work.
I would not be mad if that happens. My plans and goals are clear and evidently moving forward as planned, but I currently have a flying job I enjoy so if I have to wait a little longer so GGN pilots can get settled instead of being jobless then no problem.
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Lightchop
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Lightchop »

Outlaw58 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:58 am
Transition9er2 wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:40 pm Thinking out loud....

What does this do to the equipment bid? do they start from scratch and let the entire company bid since it’s a pretty big expansion, or are we all frozen as per the ‘previous’ contract?

- would like to explore getting off the Q out west for a new look on something that’s NOT 6-8 legs a day for min credit!
Interesting observation.

That might be something to ask for in the ratification vote, ie lifting the equipment freeze until the GGN integration is completed. It would allow for a 1:1 seniority ratio integration without running the risk that folks at Jazz feel cheated by GGN pilots who would fall junior to them at Jazz.

Worth looking into IMHO.

58
I really can't see them keeping their seats on the RJ when they come over. That's a sure way to get a NO vote from at least 100+ pilots. Those need to be made vacant for everyone who lost their job in Toronto on the jet recently. If that's the case there will be such a big shuffle anyways with guys moving back from YVR/YYC/YUL to YYZ. There's at least 20 RJ pilots in YVR/ YYC who will leave back to Toronto.
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Lightchop
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Lightchop »

Yieldermatik wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:40 am
fish4life wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:05 pm
Yieldermatik wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:03 pm What does this mean to us in the pool waiting for ground schools? Do we get bumped for ggn pilots coming in without going through the hiring process?
my guess would be yes, which you can't possibly be mad at considering they are going to be out of work.
I would not be mad if that happens. My plans and goals are clear and evidently moving forward as planned, but I currently have a flying job I enjoy so if I have to wait a little longer so GGN pilots can get settled instead of being jobless then no problem.
I agree. How would ever jazz pilot want to be treated of it was the other way around.
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Inverted2
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Inverted2 »

I was speaking of Jazz. We have 200+ pilots with 30 years in. I was commenting on the 1 for 1 seniority with GGN. I think most of their pilots have only 1-3 years with the company.
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Let’s Go Brandon
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Lightchop »

Inverted2 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:43 am I was speaking of Jazz. We have 200+ pilots with 30 years in. I was commenting on the 1 for 1 seniority with GGN. I think most of their pilots have only 1-3 years with the company.
So why would they slot in above a 30 year guy? They'd just have their DOH at GGN be their date here. That's what 1:1 means unless you misunderstood. If anything the Sr guys will be least effected by this as it's more RJ Captain jobs and no one going ahead of them.
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Inverted2
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Inverted2 »

Lightchop wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:46 am
Inverted2 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:43 am I was speaking of Jazz. We have 200+ pilots with 30 years in. I was commenting on the 1 for 1 seniority with GGN. I think most of their pilots have only 1-3 years with the company.
So why would they slot in above a 30 year guy? They'd just have their DOH at GGN be their date here. That's what 1:1 means unless you misunderstood. If anything the Sr guys will be least effected by this as it's more RJ Captain jobs and no one going ahead of them.
Sorry I was misunderstood. 1:1 means date of hire then. Correct?
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Let’s Go Brandon
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Lightchop »

Inverted2 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:48 am
Lightchop wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:46 am
Inverted2 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:43 am I was speaking of Jazz. We have 200+ pilots with 30 years in. I was commenting on the 1 for 1 seniority with GGN. I think most of their pilots have only 1-3 years with the company.
So why would they slot in above a 30 year guy? They'd just have their DOH at GGN be their date here. That's what 1:1 means unless you misunderstood. If anything the Sr guys will be least effected by this as it's more RJ Captain jobs and no one going ahead of them.
Sorry I was misunderstood. 1:1 means date of hire then. Correct?
Correct.
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DH8Pilot
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by DH8Pilot »

Lightchop wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:35 am If the union got me a raise, fixed the pay table and figured something out for AC flow, even if the GGN guys slot in above me and I'm sure a lot will I'll still be ok with that.
While I highly doubt DOH will be implemented, I don't want to add too much fuel to the rumour mill fire before the amended collective agreement is released. In the meantime, it may be worth considering the negative impact DOH entails on other Jazz pilots. There are plenty of YYZ and YUL DH8 FOs who've been on property for over a year and who are still sitting on reserve. Allowing the GGN pilots to move up ahead based on DOH, likely onto the RJ YYZ, would be a serious disservice to these FOs. They would likely be stuck on reserve for another year at least, given the planned reductions for the DH8 fleet. It's not a fun time sitting on the bottom of a list of a plane being reduced. So while I can understand your willingness to help the GGN pilots, given the worst case for you is to be reduced to the top of the YVR RJ FO list, please recognize there are many who wouldn't be so lucky. If anything, maybe we should negotiate for those on the DH8 to be taken off their equipment freeze, or at least have it reduced to 2yrs vs. 4yrs.
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Lightchop
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Lightchop »

Yeah worst case I lose $35000+?
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Last edited by Lightchop on Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DH8Pilot
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by DH8Pilot »

You were awarded left seat at what? The one year mark? There are people hitting the one year mark at this company presently, flying on a comparatively worse plane and schedule, who are simply hoping to hold a block. So I find it extremely hypocritical that you're willing to throw them under the bus, but then be unwilling to give up your left seat for financial reasons, despite how quickly you received it historically. Also, the union is looking out for the interests of all pilots. It's easy for some to fall through the cracks. I'm simply trying to play devil's advocate. There is a small group of pilots who've had a notably worse experience at Jazz than what has become the norm over the past few years, and they would be significantly hurt by allowing DOH without being unfrozen.
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CFM56
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by CFM56 »

DH8Pilot wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:49 pm You were awarded left seat at what? The one year mark? There are people hitting the one year mark at this company presently, flying on a comparatively worse plane and schedule, who are simply hoping to hold a block. So I find it extremely hypocritical that you're willing to throw them under the bus, but then be unwilling to give up your left seat for financial reasons, despite how quickly you received it historically. Also, the union is looking out for the interests of all pilots. It's easy for some to fall through the cracks. I'm simply trying to play devil's advocate. There is a small group of pilots who've had a notably worse experience at Jazz than what has become the norm over the past few years, and they would be significantly hurt by allowing DOH without being unfrozen.
I absolutely agree with you on this. I last week was awarded a position I wanted after waiting a year and commuting for nothing but reserve. I finally get the base I want and now am worried I’m going to get bumped before I even hit my effective date and have to commute once again :cry:
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Lightchop
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Lightchop »

DH8Pilot wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:49 pm You were awarded left seat at what? The one year mark? There are people hitting the one year mark at this company presently, flying on a comparatively worse plane and schedule, who are simply hoping to hold a block. So I find it extremely hypocritical that you're willing to throw them under the bus, but then be unwilling to give up your left seat for financial reasons, despite how quickly you received it historically. Also, the union is looking out for the interests of all pilots. It's easy for some to fall through the cracks. I'm simply trying to play devil's advocate. There is a small group of pilots who've had a notably worse experience at Jazz than what has become the norm over the past few years, and they would be significantly hurt by allowing DOH without being unfrozen.
I don't disagree you're right things have slowed down. Maybe all the potential issues will be solved by a great flow agreement. Sr guys leave, Jr guys upgrade, Jr Jr guys move up the list, next year the next cycle hits. AC is going to be hiring for a while. We'll all find out on Friday.
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rudder
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by rudder »

Lightchop wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:43 pm
I don't disagree you're right things have slowed down. Maybe all the potential issues will be solved by a great flow agreement. Sr guys leave, Jr guys upgrade, Jr Jr guys move up the list, next year the next cycle hits. AC is going to be hiring for a while. We'll all find out on Friday.
Sr pilots that wanted to leave left between 2015-2017 under the terms of PML 1. Senior pilot attrition now is based on mandatory retirement, early retirement, and med leave.
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Lightchop
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by Lightchop »

rudder wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:49 pm
Lightchop wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:43 pm
I don't disagree you're right things have slowed down. Maybe all the potential issues will be solved by a great flow agreement. Sr guys leave, Jr guys upgrade, Jr Jr guys move up the list, next year the next cycle hits. AC is going to be hiring for a while. We'll all find out on Friday.
Sr pilots that wanted to leave left between 2015-2017 under the terms of PML 1. Senior pilot attrition now is based on mandatory retirement, early retirement, and med leave.
Ok let me clarify. Sr post 2015 pilots who all want to go to Air Canada. And there are a lot of them.
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speedah
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by speedah »

It’ll be DOH

alpa will burn the existing boys for a sympathetic reason.

Mark my words.
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pelmet
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Re: Things are brewing in the kitchen.

Post by pelmet »

speedah wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:04 pm It’ll be DOH

Mark my words.
But do you get to keep your present position?
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