SWOOP - A New Hires Future

[cloak]

AC pushing down wages in this country? LOL... more like getting dragged down...

AC is definitely the reason for supressed wages in Canada with its low "probationary" pay, a probation that somehow lasts 4 years!!
It is easily 40% behind its U.S counterparts dollar to dollar (not counting exchange rate) in first year pay, never mind year 2 to 4!
That is where the change needs to start, that and ideally credit for previous 705 experience (reportedly beginning to happen in the U.S).

[SwoopStar]

Ok your right,

However, if you bid to rouge 320 you are frozen to the 320 at rouge with no chance to bid 320 mainline.

Again, Swoop is absolute shit. I don’t blame you for wanting to get out. But accepting a job at very subpar conditions that you were well aware of,in the hopes/attempt to get ahead and than to come and complain about it. Sorry but no sympathy from this guy.

Hmm, perhaps you misread my original post. It serves to educate those applying/have applied to WestJet.

There are 100+ new hires this year at WestJet and no one knows what is happening at Swoop. Swoop alone will grow by 4 aircraft requiring 20-30 FOs.

The 24 month freeze does not apply to those presently at Swoop. Many of those have chosen to bid out including Swoop Captains back to mainline FO positions.

I would say if you're hired by WestJet, there is a 50% chance you'll draw Swoop. And you're frozen for 2 years.

If you're applying to WestJet, you're really applying to Swoop. That is the truth.

Hi,
The current 737 posting is for both Swoop and the WestJet 737. When the candidates come in - we simply ask them what they want. Some only want WJ, some will take either and contrary to most opinions - some want swoop because they live close to YHM or YEG.

The swoop internal bid will be coming out in the next few days for both YEG and YHM (to both WestJet and Encore). Then any unfilled positions will be from off the street (we will be very clear on these offers). As for WJ, we are still planning to bring on 100 plus this year at WestJet. As published in our quarterly bid that just closed, 28 upgrades to Yyz, a few base transfers on this bid along with 10 787 and 12 67 captain spots along with 48 newhire WJ 737 spots. Trip and duty rigs, New Duty rules and reserve along with widebody growth will be the key to future hiring and upgrading. Swoop will be hiring for the next plane that comes in the spring.

I’m not sure where a few got the idea that you are hired at the WestJet group - then assigned your position when you are on property. That’s simply not the case. You are offered your position and company prior to accepting the position.

The amended and recently clarified Swoop Lou (as per Kaplan) includes years of service for time served at swoop when you upgrade at WJ (are now counted) It’s true there is no airport reserve either, however they are reviewing some language around call out. Kaplan also removed a day of work (I think the max is 18 now). He also recently clarified the new widebody rates for WJ.

Lots going on for sure!
Dave

Thanks for the input. This differs from the AC/RV model where the assumption came. I stand corrected.

[SwoopStar]

It is important to note that 50 or so Swoop pilots are screaming to get back to mainline to fill positions that are presently being filled by new hires.

[Boreas]

It is important to note that 50 or so Swoop pilots are screaming to get back to mainline to fill positions that are presently being filled by new hires. No one knows what the outcome will be.

Can you elaborate on this?

Are these former WJ F/Os that went to Swoop for a Capt. position and now want to go back to being F/Os at WJ? If so, why?

[SwoopStar]

It is important to note that 50 or so Swoop pilots are screaming to get back to mainline to fill positions that are presently being filled by new hires. No one knows what the outcome will be.

Can you elaborate on this?

Are these former WJ F/Os that went to Swoop for a Capt. position and now want to go back to being F/Os at WJ? If so, why?

They're paid less and work more.

An example of a FO with 4 years at WS on Step 5.

Step 5 FO - 103$/hr, 20%ESP, Stock Options (5500$) profit share, Max 16days worked.

Swoop CA - 105/hr, 10%ESP, profit share, 12500 1 year retention bonus. Max 18 days worked , Reserve.

I would say 2/3 to 3/4 of Swoop Captains fall into this category.

Of note, the 12500 retention bonus is no longer offered to those joining Swoop after Jan. 1st 2019.

[Boreas]

It is important to note that 50 or so Swoop pilots are screaming to get back to mainline to fill positions that are presently being filled by new hires. No one knows what the outcome will be.

Can you elaborate on this?

Are these former WJ F/Os that went to Swoop for a Capt. position and now want to go back to being F/Os at WJ? If so, why?

They're paid less and work more.

An example of a FO with 4 years at WS on Step 5.

Step 5 FO - 103$/hr, 20%ESP, Stock Options (5500$) profit share, Max 16days worked.

Swoop CA - 105/hr, 10%ESP, profit share, 12500 1 year retention bonus. Max 18 days worked , Reserve.

I would say 2/3 to 3/4 of Swoop Captains fall into this category.

Of note, the 12500 retention bonus is no longer offered to those joining Swoop after Jan. 1st 2019.

And they weren't aware of the WAWCON before they made the move!? I mean... why would you go over in the first place?

[C-GGGQ]

I think cause the WAWCON wasn't set yet. They were hoping for better in the arbitration

[SwoopStar]

Can you elaborate on this?

Are these former WJ F/Os that went to Swoop for a Capt. position and now want to go back to being F/Os at WJ? If so, why?

They're paid less and work more.

An example of a FO with 4 years at WS on Step 5.

Step 5 FO - 103$/hr, 20%ESP, Stock Options (5500$) profit share, Max 16days worked.

Swoop CA - 105/hr, 10%ESP, profit share, 12500 1 year retention bonus. Max 18 days worked , Reserve.

I would say 2/3 to 3/4 of Swoop Captains fall into this category.

Of note, the 12500 retention bonus is no longer offered to those joining Swoop after Jan. 1st 2019.

And they weren't aware of the WAWCON before they made the move!? I mean... why would you go over in the first place?

The bids were completed prior to the arbitrator's award, which determined WAWCON.

[Boreas]

Ahhhh, so they speculated and got burned. Nothing new there...

[Sharklasers]

deleted

[CaptainHaddock]

Swoop is a shit show to be sure. If they do tell you before hand which company you are being hired for and you hear Swoop-run. Honestly even for WJ mainline I’m not sure what the plan is these days, if they grow Swoop mainline will stagnate (90% is the guarantee). Lots are leaving for AC currently so that’s the main driver of hiring. The first 787 has shown up, but they are coming pretty slowly. There are another 30 or so Max’s coming over the next few years, but Swoop is taking 4 more current 800NG’s plus a possible 20 more. So.... It should be a pretty exciting time at Westjet with the new routes and aircraft, but they’re just so cheap and petty. I think the plan is to embrace tier 2 working conditions and just have a huge turnover with lots of training.

[Bacunayagua]

Any updates on the status of the "one list", between WJ and Encore?

[sstaurus]

Nope. Next meeting is in the coming week. Management just keeps saying 'it's complicated'... all while they refuse to negotiate on any other meaningful terms with Encore. Feels like we've been down this path before recently...

[Bacunayagua]

Interesting, I would have thought this issue would have been ironed out already since I keep on hearing "everyone has agreed to it".

Thanks.

[Yieldermatik]

Just to get up to speed, can someone tell me in so many words what "the one list" is? Thanks...

[DropTanks]

.

[WarmSandDreams]

Ok so here's a question. Bill C-86's equal pay for equal work clause was brought up in a thread about jazz and ggn. Would swoop employees be able to use that to force mainline rates on swoop aircraft given that it's the exact same job through the same employer? This seems to be the exact thing that bill was fighting.

[tps8903]

Ok so here's a question. Bill C-86's equal pay for equal work clause was brought up in a thread about jazz and ggn. Would swoop employees be able to use that to force mainline rates on swoop aircraft given that it's the exact same job through the same employer? This seems to be the exact thing that bill was fighting.

Looks more like a gender equality bill for pay. That being said, if Swoop was to have more female pilots per capita than Mainline, then there is an argument that it could be successfully applied.

[V1Vr]

Ok so here's a question. Bill C-86's equal pay for equal work clause was brought up in a thread about jazz and ggn. Would swoop employees be able to use that to force mainline rates on swoop aircraft given that it's the exact same job through the same employer? This seems to be the exact thing that bill was fighting.

Lol no.

[FurHat]

 The Act is amended by adding the following after section 182:
Prohibition — rate of wages
182.‍1 (1) An employer is prohibited from paying one employee a rate of wages that is less than the rate paid to another of that employer’s employees due to a difference in their employment status, if
(a) they work in the same industrial establishment;
(b) they perform substantially the same kind of work;
(c) the performance of that work requires substantially the same skill, effort and responsibility;
(d) their work is performed under similar working conditions; and
(e) any other factor that may be prescribed by regulation is present.
Exception
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the difference in employees’ rates of wages is due to a system based on
(a) seniority;
(b) merit;
(c) the quantity or quality of each employee’s production; or
(d) any other criterion that may be prescribed by regulation.