17 year TA?

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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:11 pm

From the Q and A #4 posted today.
Similar to the Contract Training Pilot section, is there any
other MOS/tentative agreement language that has not
been disclosed?

There is nothing specifically excluded from the settlement. The
document attempts to capture spirit and intent. It is important to
realize that the union committee and the Company spent months
at the table discussing the issues and developing complete
understanding of the principles. As such, the MOS can’t possibly
convey all of the nuances of what was discussed and agreed. This
is why it is critical that the Negotiating Committee also participate
in the implementation phase.
If the MOS is ratified, the parties will need to reconvene to draft
the actual Collective Agreement language which captures the
principles (which could also take months for a complex
settlement).
One other thing that was agreed to but not in the MOS. Back pay to January 1. Also that if you get PFO'd again it wouldn't count to the max %10 turn down rate.
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Rowdy
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Rowdy » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:31 pm

I've avoided the crew room banter and the mess that is FB, and as always I take everything from avcanada with a grain of salt.

I've read the MOS in its entirety. I've scrutinized the uploads to the ALPA site. I've watched the road show Q&As. The more I dig, the more skeptical I get.

Unless I see it written and signed on, to me, it means as much as a rumour in the crew room. Clarification with the company should happen before the MOS is presented to the pilot group and voted on. Not after. 'spirit' and 'intent' can change quickly.
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mbav8r
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by mbav8r » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:13 am

Rowdy wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:31 pm
I've avoided the crew room banter and the mess that is FB, and as always I take everything from avcanada with a grain of salt.

I've read the MOS in its entirety. I've scrutinized the uploads to the ALPA site. I've watched the road show Q&As. The more I dig, the more skeptical I get.

Unless I see it written and signed on, to me, it means as much as a rumour in the crew room. Clarification with the company should happen before the MOS is presented to the pilot group and voted on. Not after. 'spirit' and 'intent' can change quickly.
Rowdy,
While I have no doubt you scrutinized the information, I do have doubts you did your homework.
Your demands, for lack of a better description are unrealistic, can you point to any other CPA provider that has YOS for upgrades, how about you list the airlines in Canada that do and we’ll go from there.
What’s your plan b, how do you propose we attain your demands, just saying voting no will do it does nothing to make me feel better about it.
What’s the plan, we don’t have any so called leverage, would you be completely fine with continuing on the current contract and seeing what happens in 5 years? Seriously that’s the likely outcome of a no vote, good luck with your application at SR, you’ll be behind me in the process. If we vote this down, I will take my 13 years at Jazz and 25 years of experience to them, DEC now sounds better to me than your plan of hoping for the best.
Guess we’ll find out tomorrow,
Signed concerned Jazz pilot
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:19 am

Well said.

If this goes down I too will be one of the first to make my exit. 2025 won't be so good for Jazz.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by truedude » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:22 am

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:19 am
Well said.

If this goes down I too will be one of the first to make my exit. 2025 won't be so good for Jazz.
With a crystal ball like yours, wonder if you could share any stock tips... . :lol: :lol:
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mbav8r
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by mbav8r » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:31 am

truedude wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:22 am
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:19 am
Well said.

If this goes down I too will be one of the first to make my exit. 2025 won't be so good for Jazz.
With a crystal ball like yours, wonder if you could share any stock tips... . :lol: :lol:
I will, sell your Chorus shares the second you hear the contract was voted down, if it passes buy some and AC while you’re at it.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by rudder » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:33 am

Imagine if you were the only game in town how much bargaining leverage you would have.....

Oh, wait. The AC and WJ pilots own exclusive rights to their flying yet both ended up with de facto b scale operations at Rouge and Swoop courtesy of arbitrations foisted on them by the Minister of Labour. Both groups stuck with 2% raises.

Many are howling at the wind about hopes to achieve monumental gains. It will not happen. Small gains at every opportunity are more likely. That is how ACPA has fought its way back from the 2010 arbitrated collective agreement.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:08 am

truedude wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:22 am
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:19 am
Well said.

If this goes down I too will be one of the first to make my exit. 2025 won't be so good for Jazz.
With a crystal ball like yours, wonder if you could share any stock tips... . :lol: :lol:
SPCL gonna be HUUUGE.
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daedalusx
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by daedalusx » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:12 am

rudder wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:33 am
Imagine if you were the only game in town how much bargaining leverage you would have.....

Oh, wait. The AC and WJ pilots own exclusive rights to their flying yet both ended up with de facto b scale operations at Rouge and Swoop courtesy of arbitrations foisted on them by the Minister of Labour. Both groups stuck with 2% raises.

Many are howling at the wind about hopes to achieve monumental gains. It will not happen. Small gains at every opportunity are more likely. That is how ACPA has fought its way back from the 2010 arbitrated collective agreement.
With the horrible conditions "negotiated" by ALPA with both this current JAZZ MOS4 and the Swoop disaster, AC pilots would be utterly insane to let ALPA in. ACPA even with all its flaws, has shown itself to be much more effective and capable.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:14 am

daedalusx wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:12 am
rudder wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:33 am
Imagine if you were the only game in town how much bargaining leverage you would have.....

Oh, wait. The AC and WJ pilots own exclusive rights to their flying yet both ended up with de facto b scale operations at Rouge and Swoop courtesy of arbitrations foisted on them by the Minister of Labour. Both groups stuck with 2% raises.

Many are howling at the wind about hopes to achieve monumental gains. It will not happen. Small gains at every opportunity are more likely. That is how ACPA has fought its way back from the 2010 arbitrated collective agreement.
With the horrible conditions "negotiated" by ALPA with both this current JAZZ MOS4 and the Swoop disaster, AC pilots would be utterly insane to let ALPA in. ACPA even with all its flaws, has shown itself to be much more effective and capable.
It's ok, ALPA doesn't want AC anymore. Not after the shit their union leaders pulled at the ALPA Canada Board meeting/elections.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Fowler » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:10 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:13 am
Rowdy wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:31 pm
I've avoided the crew room banter and the mess that is FB, and as always I take everything from avcanada with a grain of salt.

I've read the MOS in its entirety. I've scrutinized the uploads to the ALPA site. I've watched the road show Q&As. The more I dig, the more skeptical I get.

Unless I see it written and signed on, to me, it means as much as a rumour in the crew room. Clarification with the company should happen before the MOS is presented to the pilot group and voted on. Not after. 'spirit' and 'intent' can change quickly.
Rowdy,
While I have no doubt you scrutinized the information, I do have doubts you did your homework.
Your demands, for lack of a better description are unrealistic, can you point to any other CPA provider that has YOS for upgrades, how about you list the airlines in Canada that do and we’ll go from there.
What’s your plan b, how do you propose we attain your demands, just saying voting no will do it does nothing to make me feel better about it.
What’s the plan, we don’t have any so called leverage, would you be completely fine with continuing on the current contract and seeing what happens in 5 years? Seriously that’s the likely outcome of a no vote, good luck with your application at SR, you’ll be behind me in the process. If we vote this down, I will take my 13 years at Jazz and 25 years of experience to them, DEC now sounds better to me than your plan of hoping for the best.
Guess we’ll find out tomorrow,
Signed concerned Jazz pilot
Agreed!
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Dizzy D » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:35 pm

Well, Jazz passed the BS TA. Thanks for fu#%ing the rest of the regionals in Canada for years to come.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:43 pm

Dizzy D wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:35 pm
Well, Jazz passed the BS TA. Thanks for fu#%ing the rest of the regionals in Canada for years to come.
You're welcome. I'll just take my great working conditions and job security and go sit over ------------> here.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Inverted2 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:45 pm

How are we screwing over the industry? I made 150k last year at Jazz and make more than a Swoop captain.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:49 pm

Inverted2 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:45 pm
How are we screwing over the industry? I made 150k last year at Jazz and make more than a Swoop captain.
I'm a year two Captain and take home more than a year two WJ Captain. Sure they have their big stock match but have you seen the direction the stock has been going? I'll take my ESOP and DC pension. And more money in my pocket.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Yycjetdriver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:49 pm
Inverted2 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:45 pm
How are we screwing over the industry? I made 150k last year at Jazz and make more than a Swoop captain.
I'm a year two Captain and take home more than a year two WJ Captain. Sure they have their big stock match but have you seen the direction the stock has been going? I'll take my ESOP and DC pension. And more money in my pocket.
As a former jazz captain you must be one heck of an overtime whore and even at that I still highly doubt that you make more than any WestJet captain (swoop excluded).
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:00 pm

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:49 pm
Inverted2 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:45 pm
How are we screwing over the industry? I made 150k last year at Jazz and make more than a Swoop captain.
I'm a year two Captain and take home more than a year two WJ Captain. Sure they have their big stock match but have you seen the direction the stock has been going? I'll take my ESOP and DC pension. And more money in my pocket.
As a former jazz captain you must be one heck of an overtime whore and even at that I still highly doubt that you make more than any WestJet captain (swoop excluded).
Everyone was posting friend's pay stubs online last week. Take home every two weeks is just over $2k for a WJ Capt. I take home that as a Jazz Capt on my 40 credit 25th pay check

And more usually on the 10th.

Not an ot whore but I do one or two easy WDO a month.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by 47north » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:02 pm

Dizzy D wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:35 pm
Well, Jazz passed the BS TA. Thanks for fu#%ing the rest of the regionals in Canada for years to come.
You’re most welcome. We just secured the majority of the AC Express flying under the best working conditions of any regional and quite frankly any others.

This is a great day 😊
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:05 pm

47north wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:02 pm
Dizzy D wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:35 pm
Well, Jazz passed the BS TA. Thanks for fu#%ing the rest of the regionals in Canada for years to come.
You’re most welcome. We just secured the majority of the AC Express flying under the best working conditions of any regional and quite frankly any others.

This is a great day 😊
🤸🤘🙌
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:05 pm

92% participation WOW even I'm impressed with that
and somewhat shocked with the 72% YES.....
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by HansDietrich » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm

Jazz pilots were not willing to risk it and voted something that was mediocre at best. It's similar to those guys that marry the fat girl. Sure, she's not the best, but she'll be a sure bet and will stick around.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:08 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm
Jazz pilots were not willing to risk it and voted something that was mediocre at best. It's similar to those guys that marry the fat girl. Sure, she's not the best, but she'll be a sure bet and will stick around.
:lol:
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by HansDietrich » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:12 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:05 pm
92% participation WOW even I'm impressed with that
and somewhat shocked with the 72% YES.....
Holly sh*t... 92%? That is impressive. Trying to get pilots to vote is like chasing cows down the hills of Heidkopf. (It's not easy). I too am impressed, in the sense of the voter turnout.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:15 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:12 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:05 pm
92% participation WOW even I'm impressed with that
and somewhat shocked with the 72% YES.....
Holly sh*t... 92%? That is impressive. Trying to get pilots to vote is like chasing cows down the hills of Heidkopf. (It's not easy). I too am impressed, in the sense of the voter turnout.
You & I agree 100% on something.....finally :p
Herding cats.....
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Yycjetdriver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:18 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:00 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:49 pm


I'm a year two Captain and take home more than a year two WJ Captain. Sure they have their big stock match but have you seen the direction the stock has been going? I'll take my ESOP and DC pension. And more money in my pocket.
As a former jazz captain you must be one heck of an overtime whore and even at that I still highly doubt that you make more than any WestJet captain (swoop excluded).
Everyone was posting friend's pay stubs online last week. Take home every two weeks is just over $2k for a WJ Capt. I take home that as a Jazz Capt on my 40 credit 25th pay check

And more usually on the 10th.

Not an ot whore but I do one or two easy WDO a month.
Ok excluding “someone’s pay stub (perhaps that person was an anomaly due to a rtb or something).
From what I’ve seen year 1 WestJet captain pay is 136/hr or somewhere around that?
Year 2 jazz captain pay is what sub 80$/hr or somewhere around that?
How is it at all possible for you to make more?
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