Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

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goingnowherefast
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by goingnowherefast »

Don't forget the PIC time requirements for the ATPL. Can't afford to rent the 172 on 37 grand a year. Can't upgrade or flow to AC without that ATPL.
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder »

C-GGGQ wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:01 am I doubt even that. Even the 250's can get their 1500 and ATPL. Heck FO time doesn't even count as half anymore. You'll just see the pool dry up until jazz basically IS a cadet program. Though this new agreement leaving only 40% of slots to AC for ots will delay that.
It is not 40% OTS hiring for AC. The Skyregional pilots still have entitlements to a share of the “up to 80%” hiring commitment from AC for the Express group of pilot applicants to AC. I believe that EVAS has a small stake as well.

If there is an outcome that sees further Express consolidation, I would expect that the Jazz 60% criteria will have to rise to reflect that consolidation.
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V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr »

C-GGGQ wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:01 am I doubt even that. Even the 250's can get their 1500 and ATPL. Heck FO time doesn't even count as half anymore. You'll just see the pool dry up until jazz basically IS a cadet program. Though this new agreement leaving only 40% of slots to AC for ots will delay that.
In a round about way I think we'll see more experienced people coming to Jazz now with the 60%. People who were waiting for OTS while flying 704 may find themselves waiting a long long time for a call. If AC is their goal, Jazz will become the defacto process to get there.
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V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr »

goingnowherefast wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:03 am Don't forget the PIC time requirements for the ATPL. Can't afford to rent the 172 on 37 grand a year. Can't upgrade or flow to AC without that ATPL.
A number of college hires have all upgraded in the last 6 months after only just over two years at the company. PICUS is available if you can get it, and those with the foresight to realize their careers will fast track as soon as they have an ATPL will do what they can to get the time. Sky diving PT, LOA for three months to get PIC etc. There are ways, you just won't get it done sitting on your ass cruising along at Jazz. LOAs imo are the way to go. Anyone who needs pic time this summer should do that since we'll be overstaffed.
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder »

V1Vr wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:12 am Anyone who needs pic time this summer should do that since we'll be overstaffed.
How will Jazz be overstaffed while sending 240+ pilots (0.6 x 400) to AC over the next 12 months plus adding 5 CRJ900’s prior to year end?
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V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr »

rudder wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am
V1Vr wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:12 am Anyone who needs pic time this summer should do that since we'll be overstaffed.
How will Jazz be overstaffed while sending 240+ pilots (0.6 x 400) to AC over the next 12 months plus adding 5 CRJ900’s prior to year end?
I guess.

We're also losing 15 -100s and a bunch of Qs. Who knows I guess we'll see after the bid is over.
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder »

My guess is that the fleet reductions (- 15 100’s/ - 6 300’s/ -8 400’s) will happen over time. If they are going to be replaced by Jazz or subcontracted to another vendor, it will require planning and a significant transitional period.

My prediction is understaffed for all of 2019 (including GGN transferred pilots) and training system running at 110% capacity.
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47north
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by 47north »

There are currently 12 -100s operating I believe. Also 3 Qs are to leave in 2020, none this year.
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GhostRider6
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by GhostRider6 »

C-GGGQ wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:54 am Oh for sure most of the new hires are not college grads. I was just implying that it will be a growing trend for all regionals like Jazz. The long thread on the Jazz pilot pool proves lots of these guys have significant time.

It’s all good! This idea is all over the place. And I 100% agree .. bring on the 1500 705 rule. And I never saw that thread.

:)
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goleafsgo
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by goleafsgo »

V1Vr wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:27 am
rudder wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am
V1Vr wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:12 am Anyone who needs pic time this summer should do that since we'll be overstaffed.
How will Jazz be overstaffed while sending 240+ pilots (0.6 x 400) to AC over the next 12 months plus adding 5 CRJ900’s prior to year end?
I guess.

We're also losing 15 -100s and a bunch of Qs. Who knows I guess we'll see after the bid is over.
Isn't the 0 100's in 2019 just a minimum? We've been operating over the minimum and wouldn't be surprised if we still have some 100's by the end of the year
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V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr »

goleafsgo wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:47 pm
V1Vr wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:27 am
rudder wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am

How will Jazz be overstaffed while sending 240+ pilots (0.6 x 400) to AC over the next 12 months plus adding 5 CRJ900’s prior to year end?
I guess.

We're also losing 15 -100s and a bunch of Qs. Who knows I guess we'll see after the bid is over.
Isn't the 0 100's in 2019 just a minimum? We've been operating over the minimum and wouldn't be surprised if we still have some 100's by the end of the year
Yeah it's a min. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if most of them stick around for a while. They're paid off and cheap to operate.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Yycjetdriver »

$38,400 while living in YVR or YYZ. Hahahahaha
Could almost afford a parking spot downtown, not enough to get a car to live in though. Maybe a tent off Kijiji.

Heck how do captains even survive as $76,800? Better be single, no debt and living in a dump.
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V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 pm $38,400 while living in YVR or YYZ. Hahahahaha
Could almost afford a parking spot downtown, not enough to get a car to live in though. Maybe a tent off Kijiji.

Heck how do captains even survive as $76,800? Better be single, no debt and living in a dump.
I was able to do it. It sucked, bit I did it.

Was $12,000 more than I made up north. But yes it did all go into rent.

Then again I didn't get over $10k of per diems up north.

It's all relative.
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mixturerich
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by mixturerich »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 pm $38,400 while living in YVR or YYZ. Hahahahaha
Could almost afford a parking spot downtown, not enough to get a car to live in though. Maybe a tent off Kijiji.

Heck how do captains even survive as $76,800? Better be single, no debt and living in a dump.
Well the average family household income is like $70k, I wonder how they’re doing it?
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bearitus
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by bearitus »

As a Jazz FO and sole income earner for a family of three in YYZ, I run a side business which supplements my income as well as driving uber part time. If I need any extra money, I borrow it from my parents or line of credit.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by goingnowherefast »

A lot of FOs in the north make 45-55 grand a year.
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder »

A block holder at Jazz will earn the hourly rate x 1000 for the year. A block holder will also make $1000-1600 per month in per diems (tax free). And 2-3 overtime days at 150% will increase monthly pay by 20%.

It is true that from a base rate of $40-45/hr that some will still end up with T4’s below $50k which is unacceptable for pilot employees domiciled in the 3 most expensive cities in Canada. Hopefully that will change.

But to the poster who lamented low Captain pay at Jazz - you took a snapshot of year 1 CA rates. I think that you will find lots of year 1 CA rates that are outliers. That is because most carriers do not have year 1 CA. SWG has year 1 CA pay of $105. Is that representative of CA pay at SWG? With top rates approaching $200/hr and double time overtime premiums - not even close.

Every union carrier in Canada has CA rates that increase exponentially over time. Most CA will do the majority of their left seat time at top rate. That has many SWG CA making $250k+ per year.

And at Jazz, most top scale CA are making T4’s of $150-175k per year. Some are $200k+. Even year 1/2/3/4 CA with a bit of overtime will comfortably make $100k+/yr. Not bad for flying a fleet of puddle jumpers.

If a pilot either chooses or simply ends up doing 15+ years at Jazz, with an upgrade within 3 years of service they will do just fine financially. If they are just making a brief stop on their career journey, then their aggregate Jazz earnings will be commensurate with a non-tenured pilot.

Considering the pay package at the Flair and Swoops of the world operating B737’s at 189 seats, Jazz is far from the anchor on pilot pay in Canada considering a fleet of sub-80 seat aircraft. However, there is still room for improvement in the FO starting pay.
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Inverted2
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Inverted2 »

Well said.
Yes the first couple years pay at Jazz is bad. I was on it too. I took 6 years till I could hold a left seat. Now fast forward to the current situation and you can easily make 100k/year after 2-3 years here. Pick up 2 days of overtime a month and it makes a huge difference on your pay in the left seat.

I get a laugh when I fly with the 250hr wonder 22 year olds who complain about the pay. Man, times have changed.
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Let’s Go Brandon
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder »

FYI - a pilot hired by Jazz in 2019 who upgrades in 2020 will have a base pay of $175,000 in 2035. That is flying a 76-78 seat aircraft (or whatever aircraft the ACPA scope will permit after 2025).

Some will stay but most hired from 2018 forward will leave to fly the big iron at AC. Those departures benefit AC by filling seats with well trained pilots and benefit Jazz by keeping average tenure either stable or declining and create early upgrade opportunities for qualified candidates.

The Jazz pilots have been singularly successful in preserving career pay rates for pilots that choose to remain at Jazz. And that is despite mergers, evolution to a CPA carrier, and a trip through CCAA. The recent collective agreement has enshrined job security to 2035.

And now the Jazz pilots have taken care of their peers at GGN respecting the DOH criteria. The Jazz pilots have nothing to be embarrassed about.
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av8ts
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by av8ts »

rudder wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:15 am

And at Jazz, most top scale CA are making T4’s of $150-175k per year. Some are $200k+. Even year 1/2/3/4 CA with a bit of overtime will comfortably make $100k+/yr. Not bad for flying a fleet of puddle jumpers.

I’m a top scale Captain at Jazz. With no o/t my T4 last year was 130k. Any Captain making 150-170k is working WAAAAY more than I want to work. I have a life away from work
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