Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

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mixturerich
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by mixturerich »

At least someone can have a life in Vancouver, even on 38k. 55k up north doesn’t matter if you have nothing but beer to spend it on.

A lot of junior regional pilots are just toughing it out, because in the long run, one can make a $200k+ a year in 705 with a great pension and lifestyle to boot.

Better than being a washed up, bitter 703 driver on avcanada shitting on regional or long haul aviation, trying to justify why they didn’t choose it, or still not over the fact they got PFO’d, probably due to the poor attitude they have evident by the types of posts they make online. I’m not shitting on those who chose 703 and have their heart in it, and are happy, but for many of you outspoken avcanada users...you are a dime a dozen on here and your bitterness and resentment is sickeningly obvious. I honestly am sad for you.

Jazz is still a good job. Jazz or AC don’t need to be “embarrassed” about, or justify their starting salaries, because it’s all supply and demand. Student pilots know the costs and what they are getting themselves into. So let them choose their own paths. Those of you saying they are screwing over the next generation of pilots by accepting jobs for low pay, you probably aren’t even working in 705, so politely screw off and worry about yourselves.
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Last edited by mixturerich on Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr »

mixturerich wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:18 pm At least someone can have a life in Vancouver, even on 38k. 55k up north doesn’t matter if you have nothing but beer to spend it on.

A lot of junior regional pilots are just toughing it out, because in the long run, one can make a $200k+ a year in 705 with a great pension and lifestyle to boot.

Better than being a washed up, bitter 703 driver on avcanada shitting on regional or long haul aviation, trying to justify why they didn’t choose it, or still not over the fact they got PFO’d, probably due to the poor attitude they have evident by the types of posts they make online. I’m not shitting on those who chose 703 and have their heart in it, and are happy, but for for many of you outspoken avcanada users...you are a dime a dozen on here and your bitterness and resentment is sickeningly obvious. I honestly am sad for you.

Jazz is still a good job. Jazz or AC don’t need to be “embarrassed” about, or justify their starting salaries, because it’s all supply and demand. Student pilots know the costs and what they are getting themselves into. So let them choose their own paths. Those of you saying they are screwing over the next generation of pilots by accepting jobs for low pay, you probably aren’t even working in 705, so politely screw off and worry about yourselves.
+1
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Yieldermatik
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Yieldermatik »

Read my mind and eloquently expressed it the way it is!
mixturerich wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:18 pm At least someone can have a life in Vancouver, even on 38k. 55k up north doesn’t matter if you have nothing but beer to spend it on.

A lot of junior regional pilots are just toughing it out, because in the long run, one can make a $200k+ a year in 705 with a great pension and lifestyle to boot.

Better than being a washed up, bitter 703 driver on avcanada shitting on regional or long haul aviation, trying to justify why they didn’t choose it, or still not over the fact they got PFO’d, probably due to the poor attitude they have evident by the types of posts they make online. I’m not shitting on those who chose 703 and have their heart in it, and are happy, but for for many of you outspoken avcanada users...you are a dime a dozen on here and your bitterness and resentment is sickeningly obvious. I honestly am sad for you.

Jazz is still a good job. Jazz or AC don’t need to be “embarrassed” about, or justify their starting salaries, because it’s all supply and demand. Student pilots know the costs and what they are getting themselves into. So let them choose their own paths. Those of you saying they are screwing over the next generation of pilots by accepting jobs for low pay, you probably aren’t even working in 705, so politely screw off and worry about yourselves.
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speedah
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by speedah »

daedalusx wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:39 pm Lol. I made 55k my first year working up north. I’m glad you cucks are thrilled with living in YVR for 38K.

(Edit) Actually with inflation it was 61k.
I made 50 in my first year at jazz, and guess what,

I didn’t live in the middle of nowhere!
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by KenoraPilot »

Should I find it funny that when I ask someone something ie: where they work? Are they a RPL, PPL, CPL, ATPL....drone pilot?.....it always surprises me to find out that so many people with "strong opinions" and those who like to "cut down" other people......often don't even have pilots licenses. Easy to judge when they themselves haven't been in our shoes. (Not saying everyone, but odd that most don't respond when I ask them a question) Who they work for or who they worked for in the past or what license they have won't even remove their anonymity. Just my uneducated two cents.
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daedalusx
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by daedalusx »

speedah wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:58 pm
daedalusx wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:39 pm Lol. I made 55k my first year working up north. I’m glad you cucks are thrilled with living in YVR for 38K.

(Edit) Actually with inflation it was 61k.
I made 50 in my first year at jazz, and guess what,

I didn’t live in the middle of nowhere!
Well then you must be one of those guys with no family who works 26 days a month.
I made 37.4 on my T4 first year at Jazz with a mix of reserve and block and not a whole WDOs were available on the mighty -8. Add the commute and the crash pad, my net loss for that year was over 10k. Just throwing this out there for people who are thinking about making the switch. And the upgrades will certainly not come as quick as they have. Food for thought for those with a family to feed. I’ve certainly flown with a lot of financially distressed first officers.

Also keep in minds that Rovinescu is certainly grinning and rubbing his hands like an old used car merchant when you bring up how great it is to make sub 40k wages at a 705 ‘flag carrier’.
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
V1Vr
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by V1Vr »

Deleted. Not taking the bait.
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Kaykay
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Kaykay »

I always tell my family “it’s not what you make; it’s what you spend”. And sometimes controlling what you spend means making sacrifices or lifestyle adjustments. That’s not your employer’s problem, that’s your problem. It’s not nice, but it’s reality.
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Rowdy
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Rowdy »

In my first year at Jazz I made 42k. Year one FO on the classic. I only occasionally did a WDO. Worked an average of 15 days a month. I brought home an average of 1300 a month in per diems, some times a bit more. If I remember correctly the total for the year was 16,500 in per diems.

Year One as captain I made 81k. I worked an average of 6 days a month (reserve). I averaged 600$ a month in per diems. IIRC the total for the year was 8300. Again, a small handful of WDO's throughout the year.

People need to stop looking at the bare minimums and look instead at the actual averages. Plus the little things add up. Our performance incentive, the maintenance and footwear allowances etc etc.

I also have another source of income, and have done well for myself with investments and property prior to coming to Jazz. Its a long term plan for me.

Jazz is not the company it was when I started in 2015. It certainly isn't the company it was pre 2015 either. Everything changes. It'll change again.

This new TA won't make me much more this year. But it will in another 2 years. Whats done is done and I hope our team can edge out a little more for us in the upcoming years.
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speedah
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by speedah »

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Last edited by speedah on Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yieldermatik
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Yieldermatik »

This feedback is very enlightening regarding potential income for an upcoming new fo. Thanks for sharing this.
Rowdy wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:16 pm In my first year at Jazz I made 42k. Year one FO on the classic. I only occasionally did a WDO. Worked an average of 15 days a month. I brought home an average of 1300 a month in per diems, some times a bit more. If I remember correctly the total for the year was 16,500 in per diems.

Year One as captain I made 81k. I worked an average of 6 days a month (reserve). I averaged 600$ a month in per diems. IIRC the total for the year was 8300. Again, a small handful of WDO's throughout the year.

People need to stop looking at the bare minimums and look instead at the actual averages. Plus the little things add up. Our performance incentive, the maintenance and footwear allowances etc etc.

I also have another source of income, and have done well for myself with investments and property prior to coming to Jazz. Its a long term plan for me.

Jazz is not the company it was when I started in 2015. It certainly isn't the company it was pre 2015 either. Everything changes. It'll change again.

This new TA won't make me much more this year. But it will in another 2 years. Whats done is done and I hope our team can edge out a little more for us in the upcoming years.
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fish4life
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by fish4life »

Keep justifying the shittiest starting FO wage in the country anyway you want but Calm Air has been hiring 250 hour FO’s and they start at $49/hr with a 80 hour min guarantee, great per diems, great top rates. You sold out the industry for starting wages for the next 20 years.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by goingnowherefast »

All the Jazz FOs I know are doing one or more the following:
- living with mom and dad
- taking hand outs from the bank mom and dad
- brings a suitcase full of food from home so they can bank per diems.
- quit because they couldn't handle it.
- living like college kids with a bunch of room mates
- actively looking for a higher paying job and/or a side job

(one friend even mentioned swoop would be a pay raise, although that resulted in a debate based on swoop lifestyle and number of days worked)


In the mean time, I'm happy to be that "cranky old 703 captain" who's T4 income is half the price of his house. I'll consider Jazz or AC when the T4 number is half the cost of a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard in Mississauga or Richmond.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Yycjetdriver »

goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:57 am All the Jazz FOs I know are doing one or more the following:
- living with mom and dad
- taking hand outs from the bank mom and dad
- brings a suitcase full of food from home so they can bank per diems.
- quit because they couldn't handle it.
- living like college kids with a bunch of room mates
- actively looking for a higher paying job and/or a side job

(one friend even mentioned swoop would be a pay raise, although that resulted in a debate based on swoop lifestyle and number of days worked)


In the mean time, I'm happy to be that "cranky old 703 captain" who's T4 income is half the price of his house. I'll consider Jazz or AC when the T4 number is half the cost of a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard in Mississauga or Richmond.
Now the people on this forum defending Jazz are going to call you bitter and washed up. Implying flying clapped out -8’s or 200’s is something to be washed up from??? Or that being a regional airline pilot is the holy grail.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by goingnowherefast »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:08 am
goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:57 am All the Jazz FOs I know are doing one or more the following:
- living with mom and dad
- taking hand outs from the bank mom and dad
- brings a suitcase full of food from home so they can bank per diems.
- quit because they couldn't handle it.
- living like college kids with a bunch of room mates
- actively looking for a higher paying job and/or a side job

(one friend even mentioned swoop would be a pay raise, although that resulted in a debate based on swoop lifestyle and number of days worked)


In the mean time, I'm happy to be that "cranky old 703 captain" who's T4 income is half the price of his house. I'll consider Jazz or AC when the T4 number is half the cost of a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard in Mississauga or Richmond.
Now the people on this forum defending Jazz are going to call you bitter and washed up. Implying flying clapped out -8’s or 200’s is something to be washed up from??? Or that being a regional airline pilot is the holy grail.
Haha, they can call me whatever they like. The fact remains that I can easily afford a house, two cars, fancy phone plans, drink expensive booze, eat at nice restaurants, I save about 20% of my income (RRSP, etc.) and still have about $1500 extra at the end of every month. My only debt is the mortgage.

Sure I can budget and reduce my costs drastically and live on 40 grand, but why would I do that? So that in 20 years, if I make it to 787 captain, that I can again afford to have what I already have, but in a city I don't like?

Btw, still waiting for that PFO letter. Don't I have to apply first?
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bearitus
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by bearitus »

The FO demographic at Jazz is pretty well all single early to mid 20's rich kids with nicely gelled hair who get help from mom and dad and live at home or with roommates. I was shocked when I joined a year and a half ago and was one of the oldest and highest time guys in my class (I was only 27 at the time and had around 1500 hours).
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av8ts
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by av8ts »

mixturerich wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:18 pm At least someone can have a life in Vancouver, even on 38k. 55k up north doesn’t matter if you have nothing but beer to spend it on.

A lot of junior regional pilots are just toughing it out, because in the long run, one can make a $200k+ a year in 705 with a great pension and lifestyle to boot.

Better than being a washed up, bitter 703 driver on avcanada shitting on regional or long haul aviation, trying to justify why they didn’t choose it, or still not over the fact they got PFO’d, probably due to the poor attitude they have evident by the types of posts they make online. I’m not shitting on those who chose 703 and have their heart in it, and are happy, but for many of you outspoken avcanada users...you are a dime a dozen on here and your bitterness and resentment is sickeningly obvious. I honestly am sad for you.

Jazz is still a good job. Jazz or AC don’t need to be “embarrassed” about, or justify their starting salaries, because it’s all supply and demand. Student pilots know the costs and what they are getting themselves into. So let them choose their own paths. Those of you saying they are screwing over the next generation of pilots by accepting jobs for low pay, you probably aren’t even working in 705, so politely screw off and worry about yourselves.
This
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rudder
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by rudder »

These are unprecedented times. There are opportunities for pilots with just 3 years in the industry to be CRJ Captains and for pilots with less than 8 years in the industry to be A320 and B737 Captains. This type of advancement rate through industry growth has not been seen since the 1970’s.

Yes, it is unfair that in part the pay seems to be more akin to that era. That must change. But it would appear that for now rapid advancement is the panacea for below standard entry level pay at several large CDN carriers.
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Yieldermatik
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Yieldermatik »

LOL @ rich kids with nicely gelled hair...
bearitus wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:05 am The FO demographic at Jazz is pretty well all single early to mid 20's rich kids with nicely gelled hair who get help from mom and dad and live at home or with roommates. I was shocked when I joined a year and a half ago and was one of the oldest and highest time guys in my class (I was only 27 at the time and had around 1500 hours).
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Yieldermatik
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Re: Jazz Payscale Updated 2019

Post by Yieldermatik »

I guess you're "going nowhere fast" then :lol:
goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:57 am All the Jazz FOs I know are doing one or more the following:
- living with mom and dad
- taking hand outs from the bank mom and dad
- brings a suitcase full of food from home so they can bank per diems.
- quit because they couldn't handle it.
- living like college kids with a bunch of room mates
- actively looking for a higher paying job and/or a side job

(one friend even mentioned swoop would be a pay raise, although that resulted in a debate based on swoop lifestyle and number of days worked)


In the mean time, I'm happy to be that "cranky old 703 captain" who's T4 income is half the price of his house. I'll consider Jazz or AC when the T4 number is half the cost of a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard in Mississauga or Richmond.
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