Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

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rookiepilot
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by rookiepilot »

US Expected To Order Grounding Of Boeing 737 Max Fleet – RTRS Sources

TRUMP SAYS FAA TO GROUND 737 MAX 8, MAX 9 PLANES
From Twitter.....
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Waldo Peppar
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Waldo Peppar »

Trump on TV now announcing all Max 8 and 9s grounded immediately on landing at their destinations
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FlyGy
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by FlyGy »

What bugs me about all these groundings is that there isn't even a grace period. Any flights in the air now can complete the trip, but if one is scheduled to leave in an hour? Pax are screwed.

Air Canada had to cancel flights to the UK because it banned operations.

Why not a grace period. Release a statement that effective 0000 UTC March 15 the 737 Max is to be grounded. Give the airlines a chance to secure an alternative aircraft to fill the schedule rather than cancel flights.
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Heliian
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Heliian »

FlyGy wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:46 am What bugs me about all these groundings is that there isn't even a grace period. Any flights in the air now can complete the trip, but if one is scheduled to leave in an hour? Pax are screwed.
Yes, that's what grounded means.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by frosti »

phillyfan wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:28 am I'm buying Boeing stock this morning. "Buy the Fear" They have orders for 5000 of these things. They are not going anywhere. Shares dropped 12% after the Lion Air crash and bounced back. This is an easy 12 to 15% moneymaker.
How did that stock workout for you? :lol:
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by A346Dude »

Not allowing a flight to depart sounds reasonable to me. But forcing an already airborne one to turn around is ridiculous.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by tsgas »

frosti wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:07 pm
phillyfan wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:28 am I'm buying Boeing stock this morning. "Buy the Fear" They have orders for 5000 of these things. They are not going anywhere. Shares dropped 12% after the Lion Air crash and bounced back. This is an easy 12 to 15% moneymaker.
How did that stock workout for you? :lol:
Sounds like the lad was mentored by Bernie Madoff. :prayer:
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DanWEC
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by DanWEC »

Yeah guys, too bad a plane crash wouldn't provide a more convenient timeline to repair a defect. :roll:

Glad it's grounded. There's obviously a defect and it's all but admitted by Boeing based on their release of a "patch".
It's only now being released that pitching down anomalies have been reported multiple times and it's clearly disasterous when a couple holes line up. Anyone defending it's airworthiness should reconsider. It's a frankenplane and simply being a new type would have avoided all this.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by complexintentions »

It's a good idea to ground a type if there's a defect. And "abundance of caution", all that.

But to suggest that allowing in-progress flights to complete before grounding is a unacceptable safety risk given the tens of thousands of uneventful flights on the Max is not rational, but emotional. Humans are hilarious, in a tragic sort of way. 35,000 people died in the US last year in car crashes but not a single meatsack gives a thought to jumping in the spam-wagon to head to Wallymart. Yet now news articles comments are filled with breathless accounts of rebooking their shitty all-inclusive somewhere because they heard it was on a Max. Progress, Facebook-style...um, yay? We truly have no concept of what constitutes actual risk and what is infinitesimally small. But statistics are hard, and crashing planes are scary on social media.

What I find fascinating is how Boeing is reacting to public opinion, not scientific investigation. Not that they have a choice, because perception is now truth. How many people believe something determines what a "fact" is, whether it is or not. We truly are screwed as a species, racing backwards to cowering Medieval times.

Maybe they should try putting leeches on it to determine the issue. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by sportingrifle »

phillyfan

In addition to buying Boeing stock, buy champagne futures - they are going to be drinking it by the truckload in Toulouse. :lol:
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by DanWEC »

sportingrifle wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:32 pm phillyfan

In addition to buying Boeing stock, buy champagne futures - they are going to be drinking it by the truckload in Toulouse. :lol:

Ha!! :lol:

Also, part of the FAA's decision apparently came from some input from Boeing actually requesting it. They KNOW they have a problem.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by tsgas »

sportingrifle wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:32 pm phillyfan

In addition to buying Boeing stock, buy champagne futures - they are going to be drinking it by the truckload in Toulouse. :lol:
the management at BBD will say that it's "Karma Baby". :smt008
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Gino Under »

If you think grounding the Max is simply internet hysteria or an emotional knee-jerk response prompted by social media, you haven’t invested much thought on the matter.
In the original AD issued by the FAA on Dec.18, 2018, they referred to the Max as “unsafe”, said the problem could lead to a “loss of control”, even potentially result in an “impact with terrain”. You tell me? Internet hysteria? Depends on your research on the subject. Then this accident happened with strikingly similar indications and the reaction is somehow internet hysteria???

As I recall, the B787 Dreamliner was grounded over a battery fire. No deaths. Yet, somehow, some think because a friend who happens to fly a Max and is perfectly comfortable flying it should somehow be the industry standard, just seems to me too low a bar.

I suspect this Ethiopian crew were confident in the Max last Sunday morning. I have no doubt they were aware of the issue following the Lion Air accident. I suspect they had read the Boeing bulletin and received training on the issue. Don’t you have to wonder what their opinion might be today?

Because of the language in that original AD, I’d say this aircraft’s worldwide fleet should have been grounded Sunday.

Gino Under
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by A346Dude »

Gino Under wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:02 pm
Because of the language in that original AD, I’d say this aircraft’s worldwide fleet should have been grounded Sunday.

I would agree. People were speculating on the cause (in ways that are likely not far off the mark) within hours of the Ethiopian crash, yet the regulators and airlines assured us everything was A-OK. Why did it take 2-3 days, and then all of a sudden it has to be grounded immediately, with planes being forced to turn around in some cases? If it just has to be grounded today (or yesterday in the case of Europe), it should have been grounded nearly immediately.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Gino Under »

... and now reports are surfacing on newscasts that Max pilots have confidentially reported problems with nose down trim, even before the Lion Air accident. The airlines they work for are saying they have no knowledge of these reports.
:partyman: Such is the effectiveness of regulated safety systems. :partyman:

Can we get a round of applause for SMS?

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by FlyGy »

Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:00 pm
FlyGy wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:46 am What bugs me about all these groundings is that there isn't even a grace period. Any flights in the air now can complete the trip, but if one is scheduled to leave in an hour? Pax are screwed.
Yes, that's what grounded means.
Yes, I'm only stupid, not a complete moron. I know what grounding means, but it's not as though this is an imminent threat. These planes have thousands of hours on them. Why not allow the airlines a couple of days to arrange to replace the Max rather than @#$! up the travel plans for thousands of people.

Is it a risk? Certainly. But not so great as to cause such disruption. Hell, it took over 24 hours for the airlines to start VOLUNTARILY grounding their fleets. If that's all the time needed to arrange for alternate aircraft, is it still too much?

Asking for a friend.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by ghazanhaider »

FlyGy wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:32 pm
Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:00 pm
FlyGy wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:46 am What bugs me about all these groundings is that there isn't even a grace period. Any flights in the air now can complete the trip, but if one is scheduled to leave in an hour? Pax are screwed.
Yes, that's what grounded means.
Yes, I'm only stupid, not a complete moron. I know what grounding means, but it's not as though this is an imminent threat. These planes have thousands of hours on them. Why not allow the airlines a couple of days to arrange to replace the Max rather than @#$! up the travel plans for thousands of people.

Is it a risk? Certainly. But not so great as to cause such disruption. Hell, it took over 24 hours for the airlines to start VOLUNTARILY grounding their fleets. If that's all the time needed to arrange for alternate aircraft, is it still too much?

Asking for a friend.
Oh but it IS an imminent threat. What we know so far: there is a possible control issue that far exceeds background failure rates. If the cause is common between the two crashes, any flight can be unacceptably dangerous including the ones that were in the air when the directive was released.

And this is not even going into the optics of "please board this flight, we want to squeeze in one last flight before we're grounded due to an unknown fatal issue".
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by boeingboy »

... and now reports are surfacing on newscasts that Max pilots have confidentially reported problems with nose down trim, even before the Lion Air accident. The airlines they work for are saying they have no knowledge of these reports.
Wow Gino....you just love to distort the facts don't you?
You should take your own advise and actually take the time to understand things.

I read the same thing - only they were repoting issues with the autopilot (which is totally different from MCAS) and even those same pilots are saying that not only is it not related to the Indonesia problem - but they aren't even that worried about it

More fear mongering...….
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by boeingboy »

By far the biggest threat to the Max is the engines - with all the problems they are having - they should have had their ETOPS certification pulled long ago.

Of course - you don't hear anyone going on about that.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by FICU »

The more I read about this MCAS system the more I wonder why it isn’t handled as a stab trim runaway by disabling it with the stab trim cut off switches. Or does this come down to crew training in other parts of the world on this jet that isn’t adequate compared to the US and Canada?
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