The hump in Thompson.

bigfssguy · Post by **bigfssguy** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:32 pm

centerstored wrote:I love how you FSS guys talk like you're police officers...or the Minister of Transport. Get a grip. You were originally hired to interpret weather, make sure that the ground vehicles stayed off the runway, and to help pilots (hence the flight service) when they asked for it. This whole YTH Fss thing is a perfect example of how this whole imaginery authority thing has gone too far. You are not supposed to sit in your (tower) with a stopwatch and wait for the next guy to miss his call by 2 seconds. You shouldn't be sitting in the tower with a set of binoculars waiting for the Saab's nose to cross over the line that separates Bravo taxiway from the ramp....you all know who you are.

Ahh CS, your ignorance shines through, did you and HZ2P go to the same school, rode the short bus with your helmets on together. FSS have no perception that we are police officers, actually we dislike writing people up but it was something Transport forced onto us. As for the wonderful job description you gave that is waaay out to lunch. Allow me to explain.....

-we don't interpret weather when we still had it we could only pass it on verbatim, no interpretation.

- your explanation of our ground control was correct though, whic i found rather surprising!

- As for "helping pilots when they ask for it" Well there is a whole section about it. " Open your AIP's children to RAC 4.5 this may help you in figuring out what FSS resonsibilitues are......Centerstored thats bad take that crayon and glue out of your mouth, there thats a good boy" After you finish reading this section (if you require help CS you can call me in churchill and i will help you) you will see that our job is a little more complex and requires us to help you a little more often than"when it is asked for". If that doesn't prove it i will send you a copy of our Manops (Manual of Operations-FSS)

- As for saabs having there nose over the hold short line well that was me and yes i did say something to him but i never wrote him up over it. the pilot has to broadcast there ententions before entering the maneuvering area. He didn't so i said something and it wasn't just the saab it was wutie a few different A/C like SW4's and E110's doing this too. Would you try this with a VFR controller no you wouldn't so why do it with an FSS. Follow the rules and everyone will be happy

Any preconceived notions of authority is something you dream up, we as FSS completely understand our roles given to us by transport. If we see a possible infraction we write it up fax it to transport and only the facts and nothing more. Then Transport takes it from there end of story. We have a job to do and we do it no apologies no excuses. Whether you like it or not is of no consequence to me i will still receive my paycheck every two weeks regardless.

Axial Flow · Post by **Axial Flow** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:11 pm

So people that follow the rules and do what they are supposed to don't get written up...hmmm seems pretty simple to me. Reminds me of the line fron Liar Liar when his client calls him from jail and asks for legal advice and he replies.......................................DONT BREAK THE LAW ASSHOLE !

FREEFALL · Post by **FREEFALL** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:16 pm

bigfssguy wrote:Ahh CS, your ignorance shines through, did you and HZ2P go to the same school, rode the short bus with your helmets on together.

So it's not their fault.

bigfssguy wrote:-we don't interpret weather when we still had it we could only pass it on verbatim, no interpretation.

If I recall correctly, FIC briefings (AWBS) included interpretation. Only AWIS brifings were VERBATIM briefings.

bigfssguy wrote:- As for "helping pilots when they ask for it" Well there is a whole section about it. " Open your AIP's children to RAC 4.5 this may help you in figuring out what FSS resonsibilitues are.

Again if I recall correctly, the AIP is dead. But all the info can still be found in CARS.

bigfssguy wrote:......Centerstored thats bad take that crayon and glue out of your mouth, there thats a good boy".

bigfssguy · Post by **bigfssguy** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:23 pm

FREEFALL wrote:
bigfssguy wrote:Ahh CS, your ignorance shines through, did you and HZ2P go to the same school, rode the short bus with your helmets on together.
So it's not their fault. No they can't be blamed, but they can be scolded

bigfssguy wrote:-we don't interpret weather when we still had it we could only pass it on verbatim, no interpretation.
If I recall correctly, FIC briefings (AWBS) included interpretation. Only AWIS brifings were VERBATIM briefings. Yes you are correct there but the FIC job is much different than an AAS site and thats what they have been harping on

bigfssguy wrote:- As for "helping pilots when they ask for it" Well there is a whole section about it. " Open your AIP's children to RAC 4.5 this may help you in figuring out what FSS resonsibilitues are.
Again if I recall correctly, the AIP is dead. But all the info can still be found in CARS. Dead what do you mean, we still get updates for our AIP here at the station?? but yes this is covered in CAR's, it actually quotes CAR's in the AIP but i'm sure your aware of that.

bigfssguy wrote:......Centerstored thats bad take that crayon and glue out of your mouth, there thats a good boy".

Metr FO · Post by **Metr FO** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:27 pm

Ahh CS, your ignorance shines through, did you and HZ2P go to the same school, rode the short bus with your helmets on together

You mean like the short bus you rode to class while the controllers drove their cars.

bigfssguy · Post by **bigfssguy** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:39 pm

Metr FO wrote:
Ahh CS, your ignorance shines through, did you and HZ2P go to the same school, rode the short bus with your helmets on together
You mean like the short bus you rode to class while the controllers drove their cars.

No no no at our school we had everything under one roof, even the controllers had to walk the 200 ft to classes. Well except for the exalted few who had golden litters with bronzed muscled man servants carrying them to class. But that was the day they ussually got ct'd from the course. Meanwhile i have a salary of 50,869 plus OT, plus shift premiums, plus northern living allowances, plus approx 180 hours vacation time a year, plus 2 paid trips back to civilization. I think i'm doing okay these days....How much do you make as a metro FO, must be at least that much.........

FREEFALL · Post by **FREEFALL** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:44 pm

Go Guns wrote:After spending a summer out in BC, I'm wishing that some of the Thompson FSS folks would migrate out west.

Why is that?

FREEFALL · Post by **FREEFALL** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:47 pm

centerstored wrote:And Freefall, last time I checked, a 757 wouldn't have a balanced field in YTH?

Metr FO · Post by **Metr FO** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:56 pm

Your right, you do make more money than me, have more vacation time than me and have more time with those cute white bears. But salary will eventually change, vacation may take a little little longer and I don't think I need those paid trips back to civilization.
Meanwhile you'll keep getting those promotions farther up north.

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:08 pm

Hey Big FSS,

You sound like you're having to defend your job here. Who cares how much you make and how many days off you have or how many paid trips to civilization you get. Let's face it, you know you've made the wrong life choice and now you have to smear everyone else's jobs to make you feel better.

bigfssguy · Post by **bigfssguy** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:24 pm

ei ei owe wrote:Hey Big FSS,

You sound like you're having to defend your job here. Who cares how much you make and how many days off you have or how many paid trips to civilization you get. Let's face it, you know you've made the wrong life choice and now you have to smear everyone else's jobs to make you feel better.

I have to apologize i never meant to be mean to you metr fo, i was only making a joke so i apologize if i hurt your feelings it wasn't intentional. Now for the above comment no i am not smearing others jobs and also like above i apologized it was neither my intention or aim to insult pilots. I do defend my job a lot and that is because i have the greatest job in the world. I love my job i sit in a tall greenhouse and watch planes take off and land, this is my idea of heaven.

As a child i remember going out to the airport and seeing the guys walking around in the tower thinking man that would e a great way to live. I loved planes and even thought about becoming a pilot but i wear glasses so i thought i wouldn't be able to get a job anywhere so i became a Mining Engineer Tech instead. Well i got laid off about 4 years ago now and applied to NavCanada mainly because i was applying for the equivelant job in the military. I did the test, did the interview and was offered a spot training. I took it and never looked back.

I wake up every morning happy to get out of bed and go to work. I have mny days where i don't want to go to work just an overriding laziness. I she the poor schmoos plodding to work, to a job that has become just that ...a job. I love what i do and can't see myself doign anything else. I have even decided to stay as an FSS for good and have been contemplating maybe teaching someday. SO that i can pass on my knkowledge and love of what i do to others. Ei Ei Owe i hope you can say the same thing about your choosen job with the same conviction as me because it will amke you a better person to be around and a hell of a lot more productive in life and work.

FREEFALL · Post by **FREEFALL** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:28 pm

bigfssguy wrote:I have even decided to stay as an FSS for good and have been contemplating maybe teaching someday

OH DEAR GOD!!!

Axial Flow · Post by **Axial Flow** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:59 pm

Metro FO wrote:

But salary will eventually change, vacation may take a little little longer and I don't think I need those paid trips back to civilization.

Yeah it will change you will have to take a pay cut to go to AC or Jazz, you'll probably get laid off a few times and you never know if they are gonna tank from one day to the next. Good luck with that. You already have the perfect attitude and I am sure the mothership will be callin ya up soon.

If you haven't noticed yet aviation isn't as lucrative as you think.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:00 pm

Wow. What incredible (and bizarre) hostility from FSS towards pilots, considering FSS were originally supposed to help pilots before they went on this weird power trip, like traffic cops.

Pretty brave words, but keep in mind that you're being replaced by a web site that gives me weather and notams, and let's me file online too.

It's time for:

101 REASONS WHY A WEB SITE IS BETTER THAN FSS

1) You're never 37th in line on the phone
2) A web site never files violations with Transport

Axial Flow · Post by **Axial Flow** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:32 pm

I am actually wondering how many have you have actually been written up by FSS ? Is it that common ? I don't see the problem here. Hedley if you are getting violated so often by FSS you won't live long enough to worry about using the web site.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:48 pm

Some are dicks, some aren't... Blah 3 pages....

centerstored · Post by **centerstored** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:34 pm

I've met some extremely helpful, friendly and professional FS specialists. However, all you have to do is talk to a TC inspector on the enforcement side to find out what a joke this YTH thing really is. There are a lot of wangs in every industry, but this place has more wangs than a chinese phonebook.

Good point Hedley, there really is no reason to call FSS anymore with these websites.

bigfssguy · Post by **bigfssguy** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:36 pm

WHy is it that every few years we have a thread deicated to bashing FSS then eventually it degrades to bashing YTH FSS. Since we had the last YTH bashing thread there has been 50% turnover of staffing. Is the service they provide to pilots a problem. We operate within the rules provided by us by Transport and NavCan and we have multiple audits by these agencies over the years. If pilots have such a problem with the way things are done in YTH then contact NavCanda's Customer service or if you don;t think that will work then contact Transport. Give them specific instances where you can and how it can be improved or changed. We can change, if you want it changed then complaining on a forum certainly isn't going to change things to your likings. Just remember that everything we do is withing the rules and was how we were taught to do our job. Centerstored if you have a problem with the amount we write pilots up which isn't much if you knoew the real number 50ish a year and maybe 20 are those are for possible CAR's infractions and thats for an airport that does 40,000 movements a year. Which if you do that in a percentage is a very small percentage of movements. If there is a problem with that maybe you should talk to your buddy at transport enforcemnt and have them take that responsibility away from us. I'm sure most FSS would lose any sleep over it.

JBI · Post by **JBI** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:09 pm

Firstly, with regards to NOTAMS, someone can correct me if I'm wrong cause I have no desire to try and go searching through the CARS, but a friend of mine at TC was telling me that no where in the CARS does it say that pilots have to obey NOTAMS. So if you break a NOTAM, you can't be violated. If I were back flying again I wouldn't want to try it out, but just food for thought.

I flew out of YTH for a few years as well and had nothing but good things to say about YTH FSS. They were always good about helping you out and if you actually went and talked to them (yup, getting out of your wide body turbo prop) they are a great bunch of guys and gals. Making friends with FSS is a great idea.

I did hear one guy chew out an American pilot for not calling prior to calling entering the zone, but that was mostly just funny. I don't think he got written up and although I personally would have been slightly more tactful, it could have been a safety issue and this pilot was just ignorant about they way things were done up here and knowing is half the battle.

That being said, part of FSS's job is to report infractions. They are not out to get you, but rather just do their job. If you have any questions or need clarifications, JUST ASK. Most humans possess this great ability to communicate. Use it, as opposed to just bitching on a message board.

And to the guy talking about how great it is to be a pilot and trying to knock someone who's working at FSS. Seriously, grow up.