Training Bonds...

[iflyforpie]

Idle Sunday morning curiosity, but I wonder how many pilot's lives/careers have been significantly damaged due to a bond and how many companies have been significantly impacted by shortages due to pilot's bailing very soon after starting? Not theoretically but actually. And actually damaged, not just inconvenienced. Sadly, we'll never know.

I know one pilot who signed one and then blew their ride, and was on the hook for the bond plus a new IFR rating (back when a failed PPC would invalidate it). It put this person’s career back about 8 years because of the repercussions in combination with their personal situation.

I say 8 years, because in a weird twist of fate... they went back to work for the same company. A year later this company had an accident and they were out of a job... although I would hope without having to pay out a bond.

As far as bonds for companies feeling the crunch, it’s win-lose. Bonds will force retention but they will also drive away experienced applicants. Why sign a bond when you can go to a better company with no bond?

Companies need to look at better methods to attract and retain pilots. Like... you know, treating them well. Lots of pilots will hang their hats for a few years, get established financially, get some command time and have some fun before starting the slow slog up the seniority list in the majors, rather than looking at purely seniority number vs trying not to starve and die and jumping at the first chance to leave—even sideways to a better operator.

[digits_]

Idle Sunday morning curiosity, but I wonder how many pilot's lives/careers have been significantly damaged due to a bond and how many companies have been significantly impacted by shortages due to pilot's bailing very soon after starting? Not theoretically but actually. And actually damaged, not just inconvenienced. Sadly, we'll never know.

I know a pilot who was fired for refusing to sign a bond AFTER completing the training. In this case, he moved on to a much more reputable company and it worked out well for the poor guy. I can't say there was any long term damage to his personal life or career.

The irony is just mind boggling.

I witnessed that at a company as well. Company forgot to bond the pilot. Pilot completed the ppc training. Company tried to pressure pilot into retroactively signing the bond. Pilot pointed out he just received airline offer but wanted to stay with the company for a while. Company backed off.

In the end the pilot left after 10 months, which was longer than most bonded pilots lasted...

[rookiepilot]

Pilots are paid what they will accept, therefore it is their own choice who they work for.

Pilots or anyone else.

As someone else on another thread commented, life is made up of choices, and by making choices others won't make, one ends in a different place. Ie, From what I read on these forums, pilots can make an absolute killing simply by choosing to go overseas for a handful of years, and bank the whole shebang, for example.

Here is the choice I made, in a different career:

Long ago I was a top producer in my company, yet due to competition, I wasn't happy with my compensation. Because of this I decided it would never happen, and started my own company, in another province. No help, no money, no degree, no nothing. Everyone laughed at me.

After being profitable, but still living near bankruptcy for 2 years, I applied at a major firm in my industry, thinking a job would be more secure. They asked me if I was going to get an MBA first, their only question. I said piss off, that's ridiculous, and worked twice as hard on my business. Soon it turned around, permanently.

Life is made of choices -- start your own company, if every small business out there is so horribly abusive and raking in the cash, -- or so these threads would have one believe.

Most don't ever have the balls, though. Bottom line. Bitching is so much easier.

[digits_]

Referencing your example, it's those "without the balls" that are stuck at sub par operators. Do you really want to force those people to shut up even more by bonding them?

[rookiepilot]

Referencing your example, it's those "without the balls" that are stuck at sub par operators. Do you really want to force those people to shut up even more by bonding them?

I don't know training bonds well enough.

However I do know courts have enforced certain non compete agreements for employees who have left after receiving items of great value during their employment-- such as proprietary company information, customer lists ect. I knew, I signed one, and respected it.

The courts recognize an employee, having had a substantial investment made into their career by a company, cannot simply steal this investment to benefit a competitor.

It seems that a training investment made by an operator into a pilot has some parallels.

-------

Try to examine it from their side----

[shimmydampner]

In my opinion, bonds are a safety concern.

Well that's a bit dramatic.
I would venture to guess that if a pilot bails on a bond due to legitimate safety concerns, one of two things is going to happen. Either the company will pursue it legally and lose, as an employee has a right to refuse unsafe work, or they won't want their dirty secrets exposed and so, won't pursue it at all.

[AHerrera]

I understand why companies bond people but just like there are some asshole pilots, there are asshole companies.
Where I work now, they make some pilots sign bonds who have been at the company a couple of years and are doing captain upgrades, and then others who are direct entry, they don't require a bond. And others still who are upgrading and not required to sign a bond. I find that so frustrating and demoralizing. A couple of recent captain upgrades signed bonds, accepted it and then once they completed the training, the company decided to come up with non-standard line indocs, with no absolute timeframe for completion and had the nerve to also refuse to pay the new upgrades as captains until they completed the non-specific, random line indoc. I would have no problem with either of those pilots telling the company to @#$! off and try to leave. They probably can't but its that sort of thing that ruins morale and loyalty. This at the same time as they hired direct entry captains with no bond, When I see things like this with my own eyes, it's pretty obvious that bonds are used to control pilots, limit their options so they comply and prevent complaints.
And when people say, "just don't sign it", it's not that easy. It's not easy to find a new job, move with your family, your wife to find a new job, your kid to go to a new school. Especially when a pilot has already signed and completed a bond previously at the same company.
I have lost respect for the management and it's sad.

[Chaxterium]

Voyageur Air 705 Bond is $15,000 for 1 year

Voyageur got rid of their bond so unless it has been re-instituted in the last couple of months, there is no bond. At all.

[iflyforpie]

And when people say, "just don't sign it", it's not that easy. It's not easy to find a new job, move with your family, your wife to find a new job, your kid to go to a new school. Especially when a pilot has already signed and completed a bond previously at the same company.
I have lost respect for the management and it's sad.

Am I to understand that refusal to sign a bond would result in your termination?

Aside from being highly unlikely... since now they’d have to attract, train, and hold onto an external hire of a possibly unknown quantity (vs yourself who’s familiar with company and operations and equipment and they are familiar with your work ethic and professionalism)... but quite likely illegal. This isn’t a term of employment like when you were first hired.

The diversity in bonding at your company is probably due to the pilot shortage and what candidates they can attract vs people they already have and have subjected themselves to their preferred conditions... and hoping that people don’t talk to each other about their remuneration or terms of employment. Negotiating skills are huge in a dynamic market like this one.

I’ve seen this at a few very reputable companies where new hires are treated like royalty while loyal staff are treated like dirt.

I’d politely tell them that I had already fulfilled my bond, that others are not bonded under the same condition, and that because of that you won’t be signing a bond.

The only two scenarios I can see coming from that are either they upgrade you with no bond, or they don’t upgrade you. I see the first scenario being more than likely because likely they likely desperately need captains.

[rookiepilot]

Negotiating skills are huge in

....everything.

Absolutely essential.

[ayseven]

I know this is old. But I have to comment. The world will not be the same if I don't.

Flying demands certain sacrifices, that never seem to end, but "you wanted to become a pilot; nobody made you do it".

In essence, the aviation companies are paying for your apprenticeship, and they don't want competitors benefiting from that. This is true in a lot of fields, even public high school teaching. The company takes a big chance when they hire an employee. Unfortunately, most of us are easily replaced. It never hurts though, to tell a person that they are a valued employee. That doesn't cost anything. "A day's wages for a day's work" is a murky concept.