Chopper Pilots, Please Help!!

[AboveTheRuin]

Ok here’s the deal…
First a little about myself: I’m currently a fixed-wing pilot flying regional jets for a major U.S. air carrier. I hold a Transport Canada ATPL and an FAA ATP. I have always held a strong desire to fly helicopters (ever since my early days of flight) and now, thanks to a lot of hard work and a recent stock investment; I finally have the capital to obtain my alternate category Commercial Rotary-Wing Licence. In the past I have worked as a Birddog pilot, thus introducing me to the capabilities and environments these machines thrive in…although I understand this is a small glimpse into the world of rotary-wing it has given me a profound respect for the crews and there craft of flight. I know this topic of Licence “conversion” has been touched before and I am already well aware of the determination and hard work required to “make it” in this great industry of ours (yes, I have chucked bags and washed many a airplane on the ramps of YK)…so assuming I hold the determination and drive…I’m looking for any advice, helpful hints or anything else ANY of you may have to offer…from brand new students to seasoned drivers.

Questions…
From what I’ve read there seems to be an increasing trend in pilot shortages. Now, I understand there is a big difference between pilot shortages and QUALIFIED pilot shortages. So what is the (insurance companies and/or realistic) definition of “qualified” these days and how dose it very with mission type? How would fixed-wing time count towards the hiring time requirements, and if so, how much? From what I’ve been told, in the States it is a great asset and to a large extent almost as an equal. Although, I am (fairly) familiar with the Canadian companies…I’d like to hear it from the trenches…who are the “good”, the “bad”, the “ugly” and why? Scheduling...is it mostly done in rotations: i.e. 7on/7off, 14on/14off, 28on/28off…est.? Pay, what do the pay scales look like? How is it based? Seniority, ship type, mission type or combination? Who are the leading companies in the industry?

Training…
Because of my current domical in the U.S. I have been examining the possibility of completing training states side on a Schweizer 300CB, then converting to a Canadian Licence through a turbine endorsement, most likely in a Bell 206. My reasoning for States side training is primarily to maintain my current job throughout the transition. Secondly Cost. I’d be looking at approx. 17 grand USD for the Licence, $247/h in the machine with instructor. Is this comparable to CAD training costs for a “conversion”? Thirdly, I would come out with both Canadian and US Licenses and the right to work in either country. I’ve heard this to be an asset through the eye’s of Canadian operators that have contracts states side…could anyone confirm this?

…well, I think I’ve gone on long enough for now…
Any other comments or information regarding training or anything else would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time…

[sky's the limit]

Where to start?

I came from a FW background as well, the main difference being that I had a tonne of bush/mountain/VFR time with a reasonable amount of Multi/IFR thrown in. Your experience from what I understand seems to be pavement to pavement stuff, with the Birddog job as close to the bush as you've come? Nowhere that I know of, from CHC Int'l to the small bush operators will count your FW time as even, and outside Multi/IFR helicopters, you'll probably find very little interest beyond them knowing you can get from A to B.

Helicopters are meant for work. Judging experience by hours is not like it is in the FW world - you either have the skills to do the job, or you don't. When you start out, you won't have any skills of a working bush rotary pilot. I know that seems harsh, but it is reality, helicopters are all about Hands and Feet, bush sense, and the ability to get the job done in adverse conditions. There are very few FW jobs that require specific skill sets, and almost all rotary jobs outside the IFR side require some. The more Vertical Reference(precision or production long-lining such as aerial construction, siesmic, or heli-logging), mountain type work you do, the bigger the skill set and the longer to aquire it.

Next, if you intend to work in Canada, train here. The differnce is a 500hr instructor in the U.S, or a 5,000 - 10,000+hr pilot showing you the ropes here with many contacts in the indusrty an years of experience to draw from. There are many outfits in both countries offering licenses, but research carefully, and as I already said, if you have ANY bush ambitions - train here with a high time instructor. The cost will not be much different, I think here you'll pay around $26,000CND. The 300 is a good machine to train on, as is the venerable Bell 47, I would avoid to the R-22 - my opinion, but it's just not as good a trainer. Many will take issue with that statement, but that's the general consensus from most working pilots.

Some schools in BC offer a U.S. licence conversion, and can be done at the time of your Cndn ride if you so choose. It's not a big deal.

Now, getting a job... This is THE MOST DIFFICULT part of the process. I can't stress that enough. If you want to work in the bush in Canada, it will be a tough row to hoe. You have a big advantage in you comfort in the air, but you will still only have 60hrs - it's not easy. You'll have to do a pile of research, constantly talk to, and visit CP's, and make sure you have a plan. Right now the industry is VERY good, for EXPERIENCED pilots, it's still extremely difficult for low timers, much more so than in FW.

There is the Instructor route in the U.S., schools will hire you after doing all your training and CFI training there, but I don't recommend it if you want to come North. You just won't learn anything flying in nice wx in the circuit where revenue flight NEVER take place. Exposure to the working helicopter world is very important, and you will have to swallow your pride and maybe take a ramp job... I did and it was worth it as I got where I wanted to be, and learned how things work in the rotary industry.

Schedules? Well, I wouldn't worry about that now - you won't have one for quite a while. I've worked 28 on 14 off, 28 on 28 off, 21 on 14 off, and am now getting started in a "home everynight" type situation(read home 9 months a year as opposed to home 5 months a year...). There are "Base Jobs" where you generally live and work in the same place, but most of the good Bases in Western Canada are occupied by high time grey haired guys who won't leave until a year after death... The other, and more popular route at the moment is the Pool/Contract option. That's where the rotation comes in - it's not easy if you have a life outside flying, and in the first few years you'll go whenever asked as you'll need the experienc/time/money. Once you get some of that, you can make your own deals - very nice place to be.

Money will be shit at the beginning, but tends to get better rapidly where by 1000hrs you should be making $40-$70K, and going up from there. If you get really good on a long-line, the top end guys flying logging or precision long-line jobs are making $100-$200k a year. No life required for that type of cash, and it will take a the better part of a decade to be good enough to get those jobs in most cases.

Well, I hope that essay helps you, and if you're still interested, I'd be happy to answer any more questions in a much shorter space! Of course this is my opinion, but it's based on what I've seen over the past ten years or so, and some guys get very lucky, but some never make it all.

Good Luck,

STL

[AboveTheRuin]

STL, thanks for your replay…It seems you have been in this industry a long time, and I value your responses…I have generated the following questions for yourself or anyone else with some insight.

I came from a FW background as well, the main difference being that I had a tonne of bush/mountain/VFR time with a reasonable amount of Multi/IFR thrown in. Your experience from what I understand seems to be pavement to pavement stuff, with the Birddog job as close to the bush as you've come?

I guess I should have said that I do have a substantial amount of mountain/VFR time, with some float time in the mix, grass to grass, ect.…and I look back at it as some of the most rewarding time in the book…Would you consider this type of time an asset due to the similarities of “map of the earth” type navigation and low level visual reference in a mountainous environment? Or what’s the big bonus for experience in these environments?

Helicopters are meant for work. Judging experience by hours is not like it is in the FW world - you either have the skills to do the job, or you don't. When you start out, you won't have any skills of a working bush rotary pilot. I know that seems harsh, but it is reality, helicopters are all about Hands and Feet, bush sense, and the ability to get the job done in adverse conditions. There are very few FW jobs that require specific skill sets, and almost all rotary jobs outside the IFR side require some. The more Vertical Reference(precision or production long-lining such as aerial construction, siesmic, or heli-logging), mountain type work you do, the bigger the skill set and the longer to aquire it.

So I guess the big question here is: Where are new pilots finding themselves gaining such skills? And how many hours dose it take before an operator’s insurance company will give them a chance?

Next, if you intend to work in Canada, train here. The differnce is a 500hr instructor in the U.S, or a 5,000 - 10,000+hr pilot showing you the ropes here with many contacts in the indusrty an years of experience to draw from. There are many outfits in both countries offering licenses, but research carefully, and as I already said, if you have ANY bush ambitions - train here with a high time instructor…

Agreed. Although, I did manage to find a training outfit in the local area (states side) with very high time instructors… It seems that there is such a demand around here that the flight schools are having a very hard time retaining there students to become instructors. All the high time instructors (including the one that I spoke with) were from Australia and are on a special work permit only allowing them to give helicopter flight instruction. But as you said, the training environment is located in a high traffic density metropolitan area and would hardly resemble the Canadian bush.
If I were to do the training in Canada, I have been looking closely at Great Slave Helicopters training program. It seems they offer the big incentive of quality training and of the possibility of employment after the program has been completed…In Canada these days, is this the only way a low timer is going to have a chance overcoming the insurance companies?

Some schools in BC offer a U.S. licence conversion, and can be done at the time of your Cndn ride if you so choose. It's not a big deal.

You talking about Pro IFR ?

Anyways, thanks again…
PS-any IFR Helo-guys/gals...HEMS, off-shore...corporate...I'd love to hear your stories aswel...

[sky's the limit]

ATR,

Yes, the VFR time and float time will help, no question. The trick is getting your resume to someone who values that experience. Some CP's will say, "great, you've been around." And other's will write you off simply because you're a FW driver.... That's the way it is, but once you find that sympathetic ear, you're laughing. Moutain VFR time, and any Off-strip work will be a big bonus, that is as close to the Helicopter environment as you will get in FW. We are good to 1/2sm VFR in rotary, and while I found it much more relaxing flying a helicopter in the shit, you can get yourself much, much further into trouble in one. On the coast it's particularly bad, so you have get a whole new set of personal wx limits. 1/2sm is not bad in a heli, but you often find yourself in substancially less than that, combine that with glacier landings, white-out conditions, and deep fresh snow, and you have a very very difficult situation to deal with. Now one will expect you to know how to approch those situations fresh from school, it's just easier if you have some history with that kind of thing.

Insurance requirements are coming more to the fore front in rotary, but often the hardest jobs are the ones with no Mins... it's the easy stuff that has the high hour req's. If you start on the ramp, you'll learn about the work from the ground at first, then slowly you'll start doing Maint. flights, ground runs, tours, some ferrying, and then be sent off on your own. Once you go out by yourself, it's usually right into the Deep End. Then you'll learn more in your first week than you have previously. As for how long that takes, it all depends. For me it was fast, I got into a good situation, for several of my friends, it's been years - literally.

Great Slave has a good program, but from what I understand, they've changed things substanially. They now interview before you start, guarentee you a job, but the training is all done in a Bell 206 - About $85KCndn from what I understand. You may want to check into that further, as it's just what I've heard. Canadian Helicopters now requires you to do intial training with Cndn or they won't hire you as a low timer, that I do know for sure.

There are many outfits to choose from, and I would recommend training in the mountains, but that's just my preference. You'll learn more. There are many flight schools in BC, and you'll have to look really hard into which one is right for you.

I'm sure Pro-IFR does offer the US licence, but I don't know for sure. Chinook Helicopters in Abbotsford does, and BC Helicopters in Abbotsford may. Again, you'll have to look into it.

Good luck.

STL

[Shady McSly]