P-3 or CP-140?

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

P-3 or CP-140?

Post by PilotDAR » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:03 pm

I was flying out of Kamloops all day today. As I held for 27, I heard an aircraft approaching straight in for a touch and go. I looked left, and saw the black smoke trail with a black dot, and two landing lights in the middle. I few miles back, I heard it's pilot identify it toe Kamloops Radio as a "P-3". Hmmm, I think to myself, P-3 = US military Orion, what's it doing flying a touch and go in Kamloops? As it passed in front of me, it was "that" airframe, though had Canadian military markings, not US. Well, at least it was at home, but wouldn't it be a CP-140 Aurora? Rather than a P-3? We don't have both CP-140's and P-3's do we? Maybe our pilot did not know exactly what he was flying?

The type identification was repeated a few times as he went around the circuit for a second touch and go (he seemed not to reach down all the way to the runway on the first on), so it was not a one time Oops.... But, with the CP-140/P-3, a beautiful DHC Buffalo, and then later a Hercules, it was really safe at Kamloops today!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 426
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by Victory » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:33 am

I wonder if pilots said they were flying a CF-188 if anyone would know what they are talking about.
---------- ADS -----------
  

kevenv
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:19 am

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by kevenv » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:24 am

Same designator is used for both.
Untitled.jpg
Untitled.jpg (169.45 KiB) Viewed 2981 times
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by PilotDAR » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:13 am

Ahhh, that makes sense! He was speaking the identifier, rather than the type!
---------- ADS -----------
  

linecrew
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1750
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:53 am
Location: On final so get off the damn runway!

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by linecrew » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:52 am

PilotDAR wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:13 am
Ahhh, that makes sense! He was speaking the identifier, rather than the type!
A lot folks don't know the nuances of aircraft type because they don't have aviation backgrounds or aren't geeks like a lot of us on here. It's the reason behind why you see references to aircraft types like B732 instead of a 737-200 because that's what appears on a flightplan and that's just what they know.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Pavese
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:26 am

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by Pavese » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:22 pm

Could also have been an exchange crew member from south of the border where that same sight picture would indeed be a P3. :wink:

D 8)
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by PilotDAR » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:57 pm

I did find this list:

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 2-1393.htm

and funny the Lockheed P2 Neptune is on it, but no mention of the P3. Perhaps there have been civil P2's and no civil P3's - not my area of knowledge.

I do recall that there's a similar list for smaller types, but darned if I can find it. When entering controlled airspace in my Thurston Teal some time back, I had a heck of a time explaining to the controlled what it is (It is type certified). He came back shortly after and informed me that its type designator was TEAL - that was easy!
---------- ADS -----------
  

B208
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 694
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:00 pm

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by B208 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:18 pm

My understanding from the Aurora guys is that they give their type as P-3 because when they work internationally everyone knows what a P-3 is; nobody has heard of a CP-140. The Twin Otter guys and Dash 8 guys don’t give their type as CC-138 and CT-142 for a similar reason.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
marlin
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 11:06 pm

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by marlin » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:21 pm

Looks like it's lumped in under the L188 Electra category on that list
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by PilotDAR » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:42 pm

Looks like it's lumped in under the L188 Electra category on that list
So it is... good eye! Which means that had it been a Canadian military pilot landing in front of me, he would have been correct to use the "L188" designation, rather than "P3". So now I'm thinking US exchange pilot, which had crossed my mind when I realized it was a Canadian aircraft - I had expected to see a US plane pass in front of me based upon hearing "P3" on the radio....
---------- ADS -----------
  

rigpiggy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2338
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:17 pm
Location: west to east and west again

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by rigpiggy » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:35 pm

Years back we ditched a sea king, because the USN wouldn't let a ch-124 land on their cruiser only to be fished out by an sh3 seaking
---------- ADS -----------
  

linecrew
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1750
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:53 am
Location: On final so get off the damn runway!

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by linecrew » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:49 am

B208 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:18 pm
My understanding from the Aurora guys is that they give their type as P-3 because when they work internationally everyone knows what a P-3 is; nobody has heard of a CP-140. The Twin Otter guys and Dash 8 guys don’t give their type as CC-138 and CT-142 for a similar reason.
Wouldn't most people, at least in Canada and working in aviation, know what an Aurora is though? I would hope?
---------- ADS -----------
  

lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1185
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by lownslow » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:26 am

linecrew wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:49 am
Wouldn't most people, at least in Canada and working in aviation, know what an Aurora is though? I would hope?
Of course everyone knows what an Aurora is.
---------- ADS -----------
  

leftoftrack
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by leftoftrack » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:53 pm

What's an Aurora?
---------- ADS -----------
  

linecrew
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1750
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:53 am
Location: On final so get off the damn runway!

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by linecrew » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:47 am

leftoftrack wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:53 pm
What's an Aurora?
As a Canadian pilot, that's like saying "who's Wayne Gretzky?"
---------- ADS -----------
  

leftoftrack
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by leftoftrack » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:23 pm

who fly's Aurora? Ill look it up?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Scuderia
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:27 pm

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by Scuderia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:48 pm

Over the years I've heard Comox tower, referring to the Aurora, report "traffic is a P3" to both civilian and military aircraft.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gannet167
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:23 pm

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by Gannet167 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:20 pm

Over the years that I flew the CC-144, I never once heard it referred to as such by ATC.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Whiskey25
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:40 pm

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by Whiskey25 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:50 pm

Gannet167 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:20 pm
Over the years that I flew the CC-144, I never once heard it referred to as such by ATC.
Uhhhh.... the CP140 (P3) is and Aurora (CP140A Arcturus) and the CC144 is a Challenger.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Skyhunter
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:15 am
Location: Near YOW

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by Skyhunter » Thu May 23, 2019 11:36 pm

Dude, really, it matters? I never used "CF18 or CF188" always just said F18. Pretty sure the Aurora guys would do the same and just use P3, it was what I heard on the radio most of my career when flying around Comox. Some guys might say Aurora, some CP140, and some P3.

Really, who the f*** cares.
---------- ADS -----------
  

linecrew
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1750
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:53 am
Location: On final so get off the damn runway!

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by linecrew » Fri May 24, 2019 7:48 am

Skyhunter wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 11:36 pm
Really, who the f*** cares.
Obviously some people do..and you`ve clarified that you`re not one of them. Thanks for sharing.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by Diadem » Fri May 24, 2019 6:09 pm

When I flew Metros, ATC sometimes called them Merlins, and when I flew 1900s they sometimes called them Super King Airs. In every circumstance, I always filed a complaint directly with the Minister of Transport. :roll:
---------- ADS -----------
  

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1693
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat May 25, 2019 5:55 am

Super king air is the marketing name for the 200/300 series. The 1900 is the super duper king air.
---------- ADS -----------
  

linecrew
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1750
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:53 am
Location: On final so get off the damn runway!

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by linecrew » Mon May 27, 2019 7:31 am

Diadem wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:09 pm
When I flew Metros, ATC sometimes called them Merlins, and when I flew 1900s they sometimes called them Super King Airs. In every circumstance, I always filed a complaint directly with the Minister of Transport. :roll:
Before they added the type designator "B190", the Beech 1900 was filed as BE02, which caused confusion with the Beech 200.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
CH124 Driver
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: 12 Wing

Re: P-3 or CP-140?

Post by CH124 Driver » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:36 pm

The GPH 204A is the military flight planning guide. It details the ICAO flight plan and what to put where. We don’t use RCAF type designators, we use ICAO ones. In 15 years of flying Sea Kings, I only ever entered S61 as the aircraft type. CT156 Harvard II was entered as TEX2, CH148 Cyclone is entered as S92. And so on.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”