Installation approval via Std 551 and data found in manufacturer's installation recommendations and AC43.13-2b. Should be a minor mod.photofly wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 6:55 pmBut look also at Airworthiness Notice B025:torquey401 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 5:03 pm From Airworthiness Notice B044
Policy
It is the policy of Transport Canada, Aircraft Certification Branch, to accept radio equipment on the basis that it is either.
listed in the IC Radio Equipment List, or
has been imported by way of installation in an aircraft imported from the United States and carries a certification from the Federal Communication Commission (FCC).
Supposedly still valid.!Airworthiness Approval of Radio Equipment
The listing of aeronautical radio equipment on the Industry Canada (IC)/Department of Communications (DoC) Radio Equipment List (REL) does not imply airworthiness approval.
The equipment/installation airworthiness approval must be obtained through the normal airworthiness process as defined in the Airworthiness Manual.
TSO requirements
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Re: TSO requirements
Re: TSO requirements
Everything that Heliian is saying about unapproved PARTS, I completely agree with. I would not want a control cable, bell crank, etc that are critical to flight to be made in someones basement. That goes for an ELT or Nav radio as well, again something that could kill me. But a VHF comm? I'm with a few of the posters, common sense says that an airplane that was certified in 1946 when radios weighed 50 lbs and were a luxury item that any VHF radio designed (but not TSO'd) for aviation should be far better that what was out in 1946.
Again, makes no sense that an experimental aircraft can fly in the same VFR airspace with a non TSO'd VHF but a certified one can't. I asked this question to a couple TC inspectors a couple days ago...they also could not see the logic in that one.
Sometimes common sense is not that common....
Again, makes no sense that an experimental aircraft can fly in the same VFR airspace with a non TSO'd VHF but a certified one can't. I asked this question to a couple TC inspectors a couple days ago...they also could not see the logic in that one.
Sometimes common sense is not that common....
Re: TSO requirements
Did you ask them if it was ok to install a non-TSO radio? What did they say?
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: TSO requirements
Well at first they said no, it has to be TSO'd as per the original certification then when I said the 140 was certified without a radio then they said it would need a STC for any install. When I brought up the amateur build argument they had no explanation. To end it without actually going on the record and reading between the lines they led me to believe that probably there would not be an issue if it came down to it. They also said that US STC's are not all accepted in Canada....I didn't know that.
Re: TSO requirements
I think you have just proved that TC inspectors aren't very good at interpreting the regulations, either.C140A wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 3:13 pm Well at first they said no, it has to be TSO'd as per the original certification then when I said the 140 was certified without a radio then they said it would need a STC for any install. When I brought up the amateur build argument they had no explanation. To end it without actually going on the record and reading between the lines they led me to believe that probably there would not be an issue if it came down to it. They also said that US STC's are not all accepted in Canada....I didn't know that.
The procedure for foreign STCs is described in SI 513-003. They typically don't quibble about FAA STC's when the US is the state of design of the aircaft.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: TSO requirements
They said that when I mentioned that EAA has an STC to allow Dynon non TSO'd EFIS screens in certified a/c ( C172's etc) then they said " well that doesn't mean you can do that in Canada, we don't recognize all FAA STC's"
Re: TSO requirements
One difficulty appears to be that it's the existing STC holder that has to apply for familiarization in Canada; so that would be Dynon, or Garmin, or whoever; only they have the proprietary technical data. There's not very much you can do to get a foreign STC accepted as an end user without all the information.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: TSO requirements
I would ask them to show me why I need a tso radio, the exact section and paragraph. STD 551 and the two AN's provide the guidance as far as I can tell. I would then ask them about all the KX170 installations still kicking around. And what about audio panels. Think of the children!C140A wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 3:13 pm Well at first they said no, it has to be TSO'd as per the original certification then when I said the 140 was certified without a radio then they said it would need a STC for any install. When I brought up the amateur build argument they had no explanation. To end it without actually going on the record and reading between the lines they led me to believe that probably there would not be an issue if it came down to it. They also said that US STC's are not all accepted in Canada....I didn't know that.
PS You actually talked with a real live person at TC? Wow!
PSS. One thing to keep in mind. A shop or AME might not want to install and certify a non-tso radio. Sometimes you have to take the path of least resistance.
Last edited by torquey401 on Wed May 15, 2019 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TSO requirements
What office is this? Trying to shut you down before even starting. But good on you for digging deeper!
Re: TSO requirements
I just happened to be at an operators place when TC showed up to do an audit, I took the opportunity to ask these questions. I agree that the stumbling block would be getting a shop or AME to install the non TSO's comm. I would bet anything that once it was installed 90% of AME's would probably sign out an annual without even questioning if the comm was a TSO unit. If you have a look at Aircraft Spruce they have a couple really nice little comms that fit in a 2 1/2 inch panel hole.
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Re: TSO requirements
You hit the nail on the head there, some of these CARS don't make any sense. For example; I can't touch the hydraulic system on my plane but I can change my oil and filter, leave the filter loose, have oil spraying on the engine, have a fire and an engine failure, forced landing etc, etc. whats the worse that can happen if I bugger up something with the hydraulic system? A gear up landing? Ooooh, now there's a life threatening situation.