English Vs French on the Radio.

[B208]

The horrors, just this alone must make it unbearable......

"tout trafic conflictuel s'il vous plaît aviser"!!!

Somebody have this man marched to the fence line and shot.....

[dpm]

Here's an interesting stat: (OTTAWA)
"As such it is the largest city in Canada with both English and French as co-official languages.... [T]hose with French as their mother tongue make up 14.2 percent of the population."

And for that small amount // dual language everything.

1. The city of Ottawa is not officially bilingual--that has nothing to do with the issue.
2. Ottawa Terminal airspace covers both the Ontario and Quebec sides of the river (Gatineau as well as Ottawa).
3. The only places a pilot can get ATC service in French are those whose airspace are at least partly over Quebec, while pilots can get ATC service in English right across the country (including inside Quebec). Remind me again why it's us English-speaking pilots who are complaining?

D

[rookiepilot]

First, not everyone in Quebec aviation speaks English. I've often arrived at GA airports where the FBO staff has zero English, or close enough as matters.

Why should francophone pilots in Quebec subject themselves to extra fatigue and an elevated risk of misunderstanding all the time just because because an anglo pilot like me might occasionally stumble into their airspace?

In my instances, I've repeatedly said on this thread, they happened well within Ontario. meaning -- not just on the border. isn't it reasonable to expect communication in English....within Ontario?

Does no one read before commenting? Or it doesn't matter?

Never mind. Lost interest.

[ahramin]

Actually, your claim of well within Ontario is still a highly doubtful one. You still haven't explained how you know where they were since you don't know where they were.

[rookiepilot]

Actually, your claim of well within Ontario is still a highly doubtful one. You still haven't explained how you know where they were since you don't know where they were.

Ok A.

You must be right. I invented the entire thing.

Whatever


But over the campbellville VOR, I think was around there -- at maybe 5000 feet, hearing position reports in French, you all tell me if they are likely in Quebec. Doubt it. Could be wrong.

Also fairly sure I recall hearing traffic on the Cornwall Unicom, in French. Believe that's in Ontario. Of course it COULD have been another airport sharing that freq. Possible. I was pretty low though.

Ottawa terminal, using 2 languages, I think we've beaten that dead horse enough.

As I said, really I've lost interest.

It's a bilingual country. I get it. And having no attributable accidents, it's officially a dumb thread. Everyone happy?

If 2 747's collide because of it one day, we can re argue this.

[shimmydampner]

isn't it reasonable to expect communication in English....within Ontario?

Yes of course. But then again, there are two official languages in this country so it would be reasonable to expect communication in French.... anywhere.
Just my opinion as an Anglo-Canadian who speaks very little French.

[dpm]

First, not everyone in Quebec aviation speaks English. I've often arrived at GA airports where the FBO staff has zero English, or close enough as matters.

Why should francophone pilots in Quebec subject themselves to extra fatigue and an elevated risk of misunderstanding all the time just because because an anglo pilot like me might occasionally stumble into their airspace?

In my instances, I've repeatedly said on this thread, they happened well within Ontario. meaning -- not just on the border. isn't it reasonable to expect communication in English....within Ontario?

Does no one read before commenting? Or it doesn't matter?

Never mind. Lost interest.

I'm sure you realise that ATC boundaries aren't the same as provincial boundaries. Montreal Centre offers service in English and French, and their airspace happens to include part of Eastern Ontario (about as far west as the former Campellford VOR) -- it would be both silly and unnecessarily complicated to tell them to refuse to talk to a pilot in French when they were over Pembroke, start talking in French when they crossed the Ottawa River briefly, stop again when they were on the Ontario side, etc.

[valleyboy]

every other country in the world controls traffic in their "official" language(s). Why should Canada be any different?

[C.W.E.]

Is Canada two countries, with two languages?

Fortunately we have the availability of access to the international language of aviation in their country ( Quebec. )

[digits_]

every other country in the world controls traffic in their "official" language(s). Why should Canada be any different?

Incorrect.

[valleyboy]

well damn it seems France, Spain, Italy Portugal and even in Scandinavia I have heard languages other than English on ATC. English might be the common language but by no means the official language.

[digits_]

well damn it seems France, Spain, Italy Portugal and even in Scandinavia I have heard languages other than English on ATC. English might be the common language but by no means the official language.

English is the only language allowed on the radio in Belgium, and it is actually a well respected rule.
Same in the Netherlands, although you might hear a bit more Dutch on the radio at smaller fields, but that's unofficially and still pretty rare.
Germany I believe requires English for all transmissions at controlled airports. Smaller fields can have German air to air I believe.
Luxembourg same as Belgium/Netherlands
UK English only if memory serves correctly.
Hungary / Czech / Romania / Switzerland, all ATC transmissions were English. Not sure about air to air on smaller fields.

[xyzzy]

CARs 602.133 does state that English and French are the languages of aeronautical radiocommunication in Canada.

For clarity and to follow up on what dpm said about airspace boundaries not lining up with provincial ones, here's a (googled) map of the region under discussion. In particular, places mentioned (Cornwall, Carp) are in the Montreal FIR and hence you can expect communication to occur in either language, with ATC and FSS service being provided in both. On the flip side, there are portions of Quebec where this is not the case; but there are also areas of Labrador where bilingual service is provided!

[dpm]

Actually, your claim of well within Ontario is still a highly doubtful one. You still haven't explained how you know where they were since you don't know where they were.

Ok A.

But over the campbellville VOR, I think was around there -- at maybe 5000 feet, hearing position reports in French, you all tell me if they are likely in Quebec. Doubt it. Could be wrong.

The former Campbellford VOR YCF (if that's what you're thinking of) is only 85nm from the Quebec border. If you were listening to 126.7 at 5,000 ft, I would have been more surprised if you didn't hear a lot of position reports from the province.

[Doug Eves]

I am new to this forum as of today and looked at this blog simply because I KNEW it would be interesting to look at. At least for a page or so and then I became quite bored. One language on the airways is enough and should be mandatory in Canada and the entire planet. It just makes sense. I flew through Quebec on my way to PEI last summer at 182 knots and came very close to a mid air near Sherbrooke due to a french position report that I could not understand. Unfortunate for the anti English crowd but I wonder why the big guys with many passengers all speak English. Not too difficult to figure out.

[Gino Under]

It's 2019 and I can't believe this English-French language debate rages on. It's one of the stupidest arguments one could ever possibly engage themselves in. The poor sheltered Canadian pilot. Threads like this amplify how petty and small this language debate has become.
Try flying outside Canada for awhile if you think language is a "safety issue". C'mon. Put some thought into it before you post.

Those poor unfortunate British Airways pilots flying into Casablanca having deal with English, French AND Arabic on the airwaves. I don't know how they've managed to operate without a catastrophe in so many decades of flying. However could that be? What about those poor Canadian pilots who have to deal with English and an occasional spattering of French over the airwaves? How unbearably dangerous flying in Canadian airspace must be???

Canadian pilots think English is the International language of aviation. Period. Which is true, but if some were to look closer, they'd find many countries where English is NOT the national language it is not uncommon to hear other languages on the frequency. Perfectly acceptable.

Gino Under

[C.W.E.]

I also flew all over the world and each country had their own language that they communicated in.

In every country I flew in when I transmitted a request or a message in English I was answered in English which is the international language of aviation.

When flying in Canada and entering Quebec I had no problem with hearing their version of French being spoken and like every other country on earth when I communicated in English I was answered in English, they have as much right to speak in the language of their country as anyone else on earth. .

[valleyboy]

A lot of the time Russians only have one person on board who speaks English and it's usually not one of the pilots. I wonder what language is spoken when they are at home?

[ahramin]

I am new to this forum as of today and looked at this blog simply because I KNEW it would be interesting to look at. At least for a page or so and then I became quite bored. One language on the airways is enough and should be mandatory in Canada and the entire planet. It just makes sense. I flew through Quebec on my way to PEI last summer at 182 knots and came very close to a mid air near Sherbrooke due to a french position report that I could not understand. Unfortunate for the anti English crowd but I wonder why the big guys with many passengers all speak English. Not too difficult to figure out.

If it's as dangerous as you think then wouldn't you be learning French before flying 182 knots through that airspace? Or slow down?

Where did you get the idea that the big guys with many passengers all speak English? Not too difficult to figure out that there are big planes all over the world speaking French, not to mention Spanish and Russian. Even in Canada.

[Mooney21]

I am new to this forum as of today and looked at this blog simply because I KNEW it would be interesting to look at. At least for a page or so and then I became quite bored. One language on the airways is enough and should be mandatory in Canada and the entire planet. It just makes sense. I flew through Quebec on my way to PEI last summer at 182 knots and came very close to a mid air near Sherbrooke due to a french position report that I could not understand. Unfortunate for the anti English crowd but I wonder why the big guys with many passengers all speak English. Not too difficult to figure out.

You sound like a troll. Anyway, did you make a position report near Sherbrooke? If you would have, you very likely would have received a reply in English from traffic in the area, and if you did not, you have no reason to complain about the language used in this area.