New WestJet FO

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Arcticmonkey
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New WestJet FO

Post by Arcticmonkey »

What is the outlook for a new WJ FO in 2019?

Starting pay and progression?

Seniority for upgrade in relation to Encore/Swoop pilots?

Number of years to get a Vancouver base?

Outlook in the next ten years with retirements, expansion?

Obviously Air Canada is the superior choice now, but memories of the 2000s show it wasn’t always the case and might not be the case in the future.
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Oleo 4
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Oleo 4 »

I'll try to answer as a line pilot, Dave P would be the best source.

New Hires base: YYZ given seniority and current YYZ based pilots trying to bid west

Starting Pay: 2019 First Year FO $60.97 guaranteed 77.5 block hours per month

Seniority: WestJet/Swoop are common employer, you would be BOTL. Encore seniority currently does not factor on WestJet lists (hopefully fixed soon)

YVR Base: Last FO currently holding YVR is 2014 with three more spots pending will make them 2015 hires. 4-5 years depending on future base size reqs.

Outlook: With Onex purchase pending/corporate restructure this is a question that can not be answered yet. I would imagine a few retirements with the onex sale on top of those who have planned to depart.

Expansion: well we all hope Onex expands our widebody operations but we wont know until we hear it from the brass.
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Boreas
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Boreas »

Oleo 4 wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:51 am Seniority: WestJet/Swoop are common employer, you would be BOTL. Encore seniority currently does not factor on WestJet lists (hopefully fixed soon)
This should be the single biggest concern for anyone considering going to WestJet "OTS", by far! Huge dice roll.

I'm curious, when was the most junior captain hired?
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Bede
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Bede »

Boreas wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:25 pm I'm curious, when was the most junior captain hired?
May/June 2010
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Eric Janson
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Eric Janson »

There are no guarantees in this business.

Aviation is a cyclical business - looks like we are approaching the end of a period of unprecedented growth. I expect a severe downturn at some point - when is anyone's guess.

No Airline is too big to fail - Air Canada was looking at Bankruptcy 10 years ago.

Job security is a myth imho - I don't care who you work for.

All you can do is to make yourself as marketable as possible.
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by daedalusx »

Eric Janson wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:13 am There are no guarantees in this business.

Aviation is a cyclical business - looks like we are approaching the end of a period of unprecedented growth. I expect a severe downturn at some point - when is anyone's guess.

No Airline is too big to fail - Air Canada was looking at Bankruptcy 10 years ago.

Job security is a myth imho - I don't care who you work for.

All you can do is to make yourself as marketable as possible.
Agreed. The best job stability is to get 500hrs+ left seat on a transport type jet. Once you get that, even in a heavy recession or if the company goes tits up, you’ll always always find work. FO time ? Not so much.
Personally, I believe there is a lot of better opportunities right now than WJ such as SWG and CJ. Much quicker upgrade and better pay.
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Blueshift »

Any word when the one-list issue will be set in stone?

If it continues as two separate lists, will this issue be perpetually hanging over the heads of those hired as OTS will every contract negotiated?
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Kaykay »

Blueshift wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:07 am Any word when the one-list issue will be set in stone?

If it continues as two separate lists, will this issue be perpetually hanging over the heads of those hired as OTS will every contract negotiated?
1) Who knows. It’ll take time.

2) Probably, although the WJ MEC still has to protect the interests of those hired OTS in some fashion as they are dues paying members. It’s an interesting representation predicament.
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Arcticmonkey
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Arcticmonkey »

Wow. That bad, huh?

While I feel for the Encore pilots, and it sucks for them to start at the bottom of the list again, obviously being behind every Encore pilot is a huge deterrent to going OTS mainline.

What does pay look like for an FO as years go on? And would it be a worthwhile trade for a 703 captain spot? It seems like you hear a lot of complaining from the FOs, but we’re not seeing a parade of resumes from them. Lol
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by KAG »

Its a pretty good gig still, good schedules, travel perks, pretty good money. Really theres a lot up in the air. With Onex buying us, a change in our compensation (pension) and I hear accelerated 787s coming, there is some good moment coming. That could change tomorrow, this is aviation after all. Grab a seat and start building seniority now. AC now may have 600(?) AT pilots may jumping into the mix, that could change upgrade times there now too. Who knows. I don't.
Westjet has some hurdles to overcome, some changes happening (standby for Delta joint venture), but I think its going to be a great spot to be in down the road. I hope.
Like all things time will tell.
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by jjj »

Interesting post KAG.

Many did the fast dash to AC with eyes on a quick upgrade...

Now all of that is up in the air with a merged seniority list if the deal goes through.

This only thing that is certain in this business is uncertainty.

Best of luck to all.

JJJ
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Hangry
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Hangry »

650 pilots coming to AC with 20 wide bodies and however many narrow bodies.

28 or so max on the way. 50 220’s.

The myth of the stagnation is way over rated (at least to a NB left seat). But keep telling yourself that.
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Eric Janson »

Hangry wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:12 pm The myth of the stagnation is way over rated (at least to a NB left seat). But keep telling yourself that.
Some of us remember September 11 2001 and the aftermath.

A lot of Airlines went under as traffic numbers collapsed overnight globally.

No shortage of potential triggers for this to happen again.

If the news reports are correct we came within 10 minutes of a major war in the Middle East. -
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by iflyforpie »

Hangry wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:12 pm 650 pilots coming to AC with 20 wide bodies and however many narrow bodies.

28 or so max on the way. 50 220’s.

The myth of the stagnation is way over rated (at least to a NB left seat). But keep telling yourself that.
That’s a lot of expansion, but it’s also a lot of liabilities. That’s what nearly killed Air Canada in the early 2000s.... buying competition (CDN/PWA) who bought competition (CP/Wardair) who had themselves leveraged to the ying yang on fleet expansion in the wake of deregulation.
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Hangry
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Hangry »

The point is if AC stagnates, everyone will. Think that left seat's going to come sooner at WJ if the economy tanks?

Slagging someone coming to AC from WJ looking for a left seat makes no sense. If it's not coming at AC. It's for sure not coming at WJ.
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jjj
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by jjj »

I don't think people are slagging pilots who jump from WS to AC to chase a better future. I think the point is that if you've been around long enough you know that nothing is for certain in this biz. A jump to AC may not work out as intended - that's all. No ill will to anyone who's trying to make it over the fence.

Good luck to all.

JJJ
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iflyforpie
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by iflyforpie »

Hangry wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:04 am The point is if AC stagnates, everyone will. Think that left seat's going to come sooner at WJ if the economy tanks?

Slagging someone coming to AC from WJ looking for a left seat makes no sense. If it's not coming at AC. It's for sure not coming at WJ.
I don’t think you remember the 2000s where it was exactly that... AC with layoffs, wage rollbacks, hurting with high fuel prices and inefficient aircraft (744, A340, etc), years as an RP before you went narrow body FO while WJ was expanding rapidly with its NGs and upgrading within a couple years.

Air Canada especially with buying Transat and all of the frivolous travel market that goes with it (which hasn’t done well historically in hard times... C3, Skyservice, etc etc) is still going to be hit by a recession harder than WestJet with lots of bread and butter domestic routes which are a necessity and also don’t compete with foreign carriers.

Like jjj says, there’s nothing safe in this industry.
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by KAG »

Hangry wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:04 am The point is if AC stagnates, everyone will. Think that left seat's going to come sooner at WJ if the economy tanks?

Slagging someone coming to AC from WJ looking for a left seat makes no sense. If it's not coming at AC. It's for sure not coming at WJ.
No one is slagging anyone. Infact I wish all my fellow westjet peers a great career. It's nothing more than a conversation, food for thought.
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Arcticmonkey
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by Arcticmonkey »

I’ve withdrawn my application. It doesn’t look very good and I am happy where I am until something better comes along.

As long as Swoop is there for expansion and the likelyhood of Onex using that to increase value in their investment plus the possibility of Encore pilots bypassing me I’m happy to stay where I am.

What a messed up industry.
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Re: New WestJet FO

Post by cloak »

Of course career moves are based on individuals' situation and preference. As far as WestJet group is concerned, it seems to be poised for significant growth and as such it provides a great opportunity. An opportunity that must be examined carefully by individuals and taken if one sees oneself fitting well into its culture and pattern of growth. As it will be weighed carefully by the group to recruit individuals that not only understand its culture and growth plans, but also espouse its values, culture and goals for the long term.

Likely there will always be candidates who fake a smile to get a job, but hopefully for their own benefit and the benefit of those around them, fewer and fewer going forward. Life is too short and too precious. Work somewhere that makes you happy, because it will likely have the same effect on people around you, staff and customers alike!
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