Living near YYZ/YTZ

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shawnthesheep
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Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by shawnthesheep »

I have a general question about how new FOs afford to live near or around the Toronto area.

For example, if Encore's take-home pay is 3000$ a month how can one live a decent lifestyle when renting a 1 bedroom apartment is 1500$-2000$?
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ZBBYLW
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by ZBBYLW »

AC is not much better. FOs I've flown with have been getting by via various means.

Some have partners that work.
Some budgeted for this at their old job.
Many older FOs are from the PML so they got their top up.
Some live with parents.
Some have roommates and are extremely frugal.
One has confessed to using a LOC (ouch)
Not too many live downtown.
Most living alone are in a basement apartment or a small apartment.
Many commute, some from the east coast were you can live much better for the money.
At Rouge some do a ton of OT.

Don't owe money on your credit card, own an affordable beater outright or if transit works use that and don't own a car.

As a single young dude or dudette its not impossible you just have to remain engaged with your finances and be smart about decisions. That might mean not renting that trendy 1 bedroom apartment in the trendy neighborhood.
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shawnthesheep
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by shawnthesheep »

So it is basically not possible to own a house until you are in your 30s if you base out of yyz/ytz (porter)?
ZBBYLW wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:11 pm AC is not much better. FOs I've flown with have been getting by via various means.

Some have partners that work.
Some budgeted for this at their old job.
Many older FOs are from the PML so they got their top up.
Some live with parents.
Some have roommates and are extremely frugal.
One has confessed to using a LOC (ouch)
Not too many live downtown.
Most living alone are in a basement apartment or a small apartment.
Many commute, some from the east coast were you can live much better for the money.
At Rouge some do a ton of OT.

Don't owe money on your credit card, own an affordable beater outright or if transit works use that and don't own a car.

As a single young dude or dudette its not impossible you just have to remain engaged with your finances and be smart about decisions. That might mean not renting that trendy 1 bedroom apartment in the trendy neighborhood.
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ZBBYLW
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by ZBBYLW »

shawnthesheep wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:16 pm So it is basically not possible to own a house until you are in your 30s if you base out of yyz/ytz (porter)?
ZBBYLW wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:11 pm AC is not much better. FOs I've flown with have been getting by via various means.

Some have partners that work.
Some budgeted for this at their old job.
Many older FOs are from the PML so they got their top up.
Some live with parents.
Some have roommates and are extremely frugal.
One has confessed to using a LOC (ouch)
Not too many live downtown.
Most living alone are in a basement apartment or a small apartment.
Many commute, some from the east coast were you can live much better for the money.
At Rouge some do a ton of OT.

Don't owe money on your credit card, own an affordable beater outright or if transit works use that and don't own a car.

As a single young dude or dudette its not impossible you just have to remain engaged with your finances and be smart about decisions. That might mean not renting that trendy 1 bedroom apartment in the trendy neighborhood.
It depends where you want to live I suppose. If by house you mean a detached single family dewling close to YTZ... Shy of having cash in hand it's going to be pretty challenging to qualify for a mortgage even as a skipper. If you are okay living within a 90 minute drive (YTZ is one of the worst example for hosting affordability) you could probably find something. If you're okay with a town house or condo there are pockets within 60 minutes. Won't be posh but you'd find something. Within 60 mins of YYZ you can find some affordable housing, being in a small town is wonderful. Way better than the city. And cheaper too.
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ant_321
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by ant_321 »

ZBBYLW wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:58 pm
shawnthesheep wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:16 pm So it is basically not possible to own a house until you are in your 30s if you base out of yyz/ytz (porter)?
ZBBYLW wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:11 pm AC is not much better. FOs I've flown with have been getting by via various means.

Some have partners that work.
Some budgeted for this at their old job.
Many older FOs are from the PML so they got their top up.
Some live with parents.
Some have roommates and are extremely frugal.
One has confessed to using a LOC (ouch)
Not too many live downtown.
Most living alone are in a basement apartment or a small apartment.
Many commute, some from the east coast were you can live much better for the money.
At Rouge some do a ton of OT.

Don't owe money on your credit card, own an affordable beater outright or if transit works use that and don't own a car.

As a single young dude or dudette its not impossible you just have to remain engaged with your finances and be smart about decisions. That might mean not renting that trendy 1 bedroom apartment in the trendy neighborhood.
It depends where you want to live I suppose. If by house you mean a detached single family dewling close to YTZ... Shy of having cash in hand it's going to be pretty challenging to qualify for a mortgage even as a skipper. If you are okay living within a 90 minute drive (YTZ is one of the worst example for hosting affordability) you could probably find something. If you're okay with a town house or condo there are pockets within 60 minutes. Won't be posh but you'd find something. Within 60 mins of YYZ you can find some affordable housing, being in a small town is wonderful. Way better than the city. And cheaper too.
*affordable for the YYZ area.

Still ridiculously expensive in comparison to most of Canada. I recently sold a townhouse about 45 min from YYZ for $500k.
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bearitus
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by bearitus »

For me it wasn't easy. I am raising a family in the YYZ area and my wife doesnt work. How I managed to survive was by running a side business and using a line of credit when absolutely necessary. Now that I am left seat I still don't qualify for a mortgage in the GTA.
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shawnthesheep
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by shawnthesheep »

That is very concerning. I am from yeg and could easily base in yyc if i ever get to that point but it is a dream to live in the toronto area.

bearitus wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:37 am For me it wasn't easy. I am raising a family in the YYZ area and my wife doesnt work. How I managed to survive was by running a side business and using a line of credit when absolutely necessary. Now that I am left seat I still don't qualify for a mortgage in the GTA.
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CL-Skadoo!
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

bearitus wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:37 am . Now that I am left seat I still don't qualify for a mortgage in the GTA.t
Do you mean you don’t qualify because you can’t yet put down 20%? If you look just over an hour to yyz, decent places can be had below 400,000. This being a non-rush, potential 407 commute, but they are out there. Definitely a tough go on single income.
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bearitus
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by bearitus »

CL-Skadoo! wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:52 pm
bearitus wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:37 am . Now that I am left seat I still don't qualify for a mortgage in the GTA.t
Do you mean you don’t qualify because you can’t yet put down 20%? If you look just over an hour to yyz, decent places can be had below 400,000. This being a non-rush, potential 407 commute, but they are out there. Definitely a tough go on single income.

Nope I have the down payment (well not really but parents can help :) ). The reality is that even a townhouse in Mississauga near the airport is 700k+ these days. I am looking more into Hamilton, Barrie and Cambridge where the prices seem more reasonable ~400-500k.
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FishermanIvan
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by FishermanIvan »

You gotta look harder and figure out what you want to live in. GF and I just bought a condo in the beaches for $450; two bedroom, one bath. Pretty close to YTZ and a great place to live.
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by twa22 »

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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by FishermanIvan »

Because the reality that anything reasonably near the airport in Toronto is $700K like someone said isn’t always true.
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by twa22 »

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JBI
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by JBI »

To expand a little more upon ZBBYLW's post:

Housing prices in Toronto are nuts and there isn't too much rhyme or reason to some of it. Nonetheless, most younger single folks (pilots or otherwise) will usually start out by renting a two or 3 bedroom apartment with roommates if they want to live downtown. This isn't really a new thing. I would say the bulk of newer pilots that I know in YYZ that actually live in the city do so with some sort of roommate situation.

Depending on the reserve/report requirements for the different airlines, there are many pilots who live further out in the GTA in smaller towns/cities such as Barrie, Collingwood, Orangeville, Guelph, Cambridge, Brantford, Hamilton, Port Perry, Oshawa etc. You can get significantly more house than in Toronto depending on what town you're in.

Where things have changed is that owning a detached single family house in Toronto proper now pretty much requires both spouses working full time in reasonably well paying jobs. Gone are the days that a professional or semi-professional single income family could afford a detached house in the city. That's just not the case anymore. It doesn't make sense as even detached houses in not particularly good areas near the airport are pricey.
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Bede
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by Bede »

shawnthesheep wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:16 pm So it is basically not possible to own a house until you are in your 30s if you base out of yyz/ytz (porter)?
No. Unfortunately once you're in your 30's house prices will have climbed even higher precluding anyone but those with old money from getting into the housing market.

It's a hell of a predicament that we've created for future generations.
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flyingcanuck
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by flyingcanuck »

I just got an ok sized basement apartment for 1400 in YYZ downtown-ish and I had the sad realization that the bedroom I stayed in at my folks place is slightly bigger than the living room in the apartment. It's crazy what we have to pay not just to be around the city.

Also 3k is prob a 3-4 year FO after taxes. Jazz FO starting I made around 2500 excluding perdiems.
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WellThatAgedWell
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by WellThatAgedWell »

Bede wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:15 pm
shawnthesheep wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:16 pm So it is basically not possible to own a house until you are in your 30s if you base out of yyz/ytz (porter)?
No. Unfortunately once you're in your 30's house prices will have climbed even higher precluding anyone but those with old money from getting into the housing market.

It's a hell of a predicament that we've created for future generations.
It’s all part of the master plan!

I will own nothing, and I will be happy!

Say this 10 times and you will see!
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Timetoflyagain
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by Timetoflyagain »

..Toronto housing prices are insane…no doubt…Porter pairings usually either start very early in the am.. ie before 07:30, so traffic isn’t really an issue, midday, or after 18:45 (splits). A mix of 1/2/3/4 day pairings with the usual (precovid) majority are 2 days, so total “drive ins per month” would be around 5-7 times. This can make the drive more reasonable, along with carpooling, gotrain etc. Current growth is YTZ, but will soon start hiring for YYZ and outbases, so time actually at YTZ could be short if you really want to base east, North or eventually west. Live frugally and smart…at least the opportunities of being in an outfit going from 29 tails to 109 is a good ticket to have. Todays 1500TT pilot with a bottom of the list number flying a low 500 per year will hit D8 Capt minimums in 3 years, upgrade and then E2 Capt mins 2 years after that. The FO hired the day tail #55 arrives will be (very roughly) the lowest Capt when tail 109 arrives. It’s rare some sacrifices don’t have to be made at some point…go Arctic, go medivac, go bush, go crappy operator flying wrecks in a otherwise cheap city…whatever…no golden tickets for everyone….
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airplane123
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by airplane123 »

When I was at Porter, the starting pay for FO was $41,606 annually ($3467/month before taxes). I rented an apartment that was a 20 minute walk from the crew room for $1690/month. I didn't have much left at the end of the month but I wasn't concerned about saving money - it was the lifestyle that was more important for me. I have no regrets - it was a great time in my life.

Many had roommates, especially flight attendants who made less than pilots. With a 2br renting for ~$2400-2600/month, it can be doable with a roommate. If you want to live on your own, you likely won't be able to save anything until you go left seat.

A few tried paying lower rent by living in far-flung parts of the city (Cabbagetown, Mississauga, Oakwood, etc.) but had commuting costs. Many pairings start or end while TTC subway service isn't running (or running buses with reduced service) so they still required a car or took Ubers all the time, especially in bad weather. I don't think they saved any money.

I recommend getting a place within walking distance to the island and avoid having to rely on a car, TTC or Ubers. Enjoy the lifestyle and worry about saving some coin when you get a promotion.
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Re: Living near YYZ/YTZ

Post by oldncold »

Well there are several underpass close by though you might need bear spray to ward off the racoons n the thief looking for your shiny watch. A woods -30c type sleeping bag is also important. Along with a 200 dollar tent. Since you are a clean non drug user ,well educated transient pilot. the city likely wont bother you. And if your concerned about your personal security while sleeping to meet your duty rest.you could pay a small fee to borrow a dog :lol: :lol: 8)

Remember the banks only mortgage 3 to max 4 times your gross yearly income . so if you making 60k only equals 240 k anything more needs income help or large downpayment

N if that wernt bad enough the libn ndp just kiboshed a motion to suspend the carbon tax for 12 months it goes up again 11 c on april 1
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