DOH merge.

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FL320
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
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Hangry
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Hangry »

FL320 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
Let them have it.
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Jettime3
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Jettime3 »

Hangry wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:01 pm
FL320 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
Let them have it.
Yup. Let them shuffle it around and make it into an express version of what we do . TS you are not an improvement . You are not any more than a charter airline who has overseas seasonal flying. What’s so unique? Your fleet of leased aircraft? Your pilots? Or your routes ? AC can lease aircraft , AC is moving pilots and that leaves your routes . That’s all we want . And if you think you are taking our DOH seniority we will see about that . You will have a job , but you will not be Air Transat . You will be a division of AC. No ALPA . You need to educate yourselves on ACPA and what your integration will consist of.
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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden »

Jettime3 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:24 pm
Hangry wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:01 pm
FL320 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
Let them have it.
Yup. Let them shuffle it around and make it into an express version of what we do . TS you are not an improvement . You are not any more than a charter airline who has overseas seasonal flying. What’s so unique? Your fleet of leased aircraft? Your pilots? Or your routes ? AC can lease aircraft , AC is moving pilots and that leaves your routes . That’s all we want . And if you think you are taking our DOH seniority we will see about that . You will have a job , but you will not be Air Transat . You will be a division of AC. No ALPA . You need to educate yourselves on ACPA and what your integration will consist of.
Sounds like you drink the ACPA koolaide well. And are very uneducated in regards to mergers and acquisitions.

If you think our contract is worth anything, think again. The government will just walk in and arbitrate it if we don't get along and come to an agreement. A negotiated contract where both sides walk away a bit unhappy is always better than an arbitrated one.
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade »

altiplano wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:29 pm
I read someone speculate AC would just shift the hiring to Transat... maybe that's it...

That would be me, but I didn’t mean it as speculation. It was what happened during the last merger with Canadian Airlines. Some of the training was offloaded to the training department that was not as busy. In that case Canadian. In the end everyone ends up on the same list anyway, so even if that happens here, it doesn’t impact the end result. It only impacted where new hires started.
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade »

Jettime3 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:24 pm
Hangry wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:01 pm
FL320 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
Let them have it.
Yup. Let them shuffle it around and make it into an express version of what we do . TS you are not an improvement . You are not any more than a charter airline who has overseas seasonal flying. What’s so unique? Your fleet of leased aircraft? Your pilots? Or your routes ? AC can lease aircraft , AC is moving pilots and that leaves your routes . That’s all we want . And if you think you are taking our DOH seniority we will see about that . You will have a job , but you will not be Air Transat . You will be a division of AC. No ALPA . You need to educate yourselves on ACPA and what your integration will consist of.
I’m thinking your the one that needs the educating. Your view point is way out in left field.
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FL-280
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL-280 »

Not so left of field... he just has the balls to say how he really feels. When it comes time to vote, there ain't anyone looking above your shoulder. It's just you, and you will vote for your own interests.
I will do the same.
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade »

FL-280 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:06 pm Not so left of field... he just has the balls to say how he really feels. When it comes time to vote, there ain't anyone looking above your shoulder. It's just you, and you will vote for your own interests.
I will do the same.
You won't have a vote on anything related to seniority integration. Well I suppose we would vote if an agreement was found between the parties. But a no vote would just mean an arbitrator decides.

Voting ACPA or ALPA will have zero impact on seniority. Once ACPA or ALPA are certified they have a fiduciary duty to all members regardless of previous affiliation.

In fact ACPA walked like they were on egg shells with the CAIL guys. Liability can be limiting.
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by TFTMB heavy »

Usually, there is no vote on an integrated seniority list, it is left up to the two parties to come up with a suitable solution. If they can't an arbitrator decides.
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Hangry
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Hangry »

This will end in arbitration.

Anyhoo. Welcome aboard boys and girls. When the dust settles all in all it’s a really great place to work.
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

We will need to put the seniority fight and any hard feelings to rest quickly, kick B-scale to the curb, not let them divide us, and get a fucking raise

Rovinescu is making millions and he just cashed out 50 million with 100+ million in options still vested. Time to get our slice.
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade »

TFTMB heavy wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:26 pm Usually, there is no vote on an integrated seniority list, it is left up to the two parties to come up with a suitable solution. If they can't an arbitrator decides.
Usually yes. ACPA was formed on a grass roots concept.

As such the constitution requires a vote on everything.
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yycflyguy
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by yycflyguy »

Grass roots. Tee hee. Always gets a chuckle out of me
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JoeyBarton
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by JoeyBarton »

Why not keep the lists separated and a fixed number of fins or pilots and TS? After all encore is not part of the wj mainline-swoop list. The common employer thing doesn't necessarily mean the 2 lists have to be merged..
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

Because they would pit groups against each other to get work.

ACPA owns all Air Canada and Air Canada subsidiary flying within the provision of their scope agreement.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by JoeyBarton »

If you limit the number of tails at TS, the 2 groups won't fight against each other..
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade »

JoeyBarton wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:29 am If you limit the number of tails at TS, the 2 groups won't fight against each other..
The single most important scope language within ACPA’s collective agreement. Only Air Canada pilots, on the Air Canada pilot seniority list, can fly aircraft on behalf of Air Canada.

What you are suggesting is opening up the single most important part of ACPA’s scope and long term job security. Allowing non Air Canada pilots to fly aircraft on behalf of Air Canada. We currently have an exemption for 80 seats and less. You are suggesting we expand that exemption to Widebody aircraft.

The one rule of scope is that it always slides away from you. Always. So you always resist the slide knowing full well you can’t stop it fully.

Two decades ago the exemption was 50 seats. Today it is 75. Some airlines in North America have moved to 76-78. It will keep moving.

Rouge was limited to 25 Narrow bodies originally. Now has 40 something.

So now you suggest a new exemption. Say 30 tails flown by non Air Canada pilots. What do you think that will look like 2 decades from now? It will forever place ACPA pilots on the defensive during negotiations. Expending negotiating energy, that could be expended elsewhere, trying to resist this new exemptions growth. AC management would love that idea.

It also creates a very divisive atmosphere when one group of pilots feels as if another group is holding them down. The opposing group feeling as if the other group is trying to take something that doesn’t belong to them. That atmosphere is ripe for exploitation by management. History has taught us. Don’t do it.
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aerodude
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by aerodude »

JoeyBarton wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:29 am If you limit the number of tails at TS, the 2 groups won't fight against each other..
This cannot happen. There should be one list with one payscale. Rouge doesnt help, and ACPA pilots voting to allow unlimited NB growth at rouge on the last reopener was also a beauty. Didn’t understand that to be honest.

We will now have groups within the same holding company (AC) fighting for flying. A, B, and now a C scale company :prayer:

Next recession will be a bloodbath when the company needs to cut costs.
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Last edited by aerodude on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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jetpilot
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by jetpilot »

Easy!

-United we stand, divided we fall
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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden »

aerodude wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:27 am
JoeyBarton wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:29 am If you limit the number of tails at TS, the 2 groups won't fight against each other..
This cannot happen. There should be one list with one payscale. Rouge doesnt help, and ACPA pilots voting to allow unlimited NB growth at rouge on the last reopener was also a beauty. Didn’t understand that to be honest.

We will now have groups within the same holding company (AC) fighting for flying. A, B, and now a C scale company :prayer:

Next recession will be a bloodbath when the company needs to cut costs.
Regardless of however it all integrated THE MOST IMPORTANT THING is that we are all on one list.

I will vote against any contract and fight against any contract that does otherwise. Regardless of how much money they try to throw at me.
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