C185 floatplane flips with tourists in Quebec.. 1 Dead

No Conflict · Post by **No Conflict** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:24 am

Couldn't find a link, but saw it on the news this morning.... Apparently the a/c was caught in a wind gust...

MCA · Post by **MCA** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:38 am

in french.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/ar ... 178423.php

180 · Post by **180** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:51 am

Says in the article 6 people on board, pilot plus five Japanese tourists...couldn't be a 185, sounds more like a 206.

Quagmire · Post by **Quagmire** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:28 pm

It was a 185 there 15 min from where I live and they don't have any 206s.

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:56 pm

Driving Rain wrote:
spafloats wrote:Driving Rain,

You missed my point. IF the seats are OCCUPIED then the seats have to have passenger liability. If the seats are REMOVED, how can they be occupied (unless they are back sitting on them in the hangar!)?

Most insurance companies will make you put passenger liability on all installed seats, if you take them out and reflect this in the W&B then they can`t charge a premium for them.

Spafloats
No shit really?

Why would a commercial air service keep and insure the silly seats in a 185 float plane? They get in the way take up valuable room and serve no purpose once the thing is on floats. Maybe they like to waste money cause that's what they'd be doing if they kept insurance on seats they could never ever fill unless it was by the afore mentioned midgets.

Man, those hasty words sure do have a way of coming back to bite you in the empennage don't they?

180 · Post by **180** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:35 am

SIX people in a 185? That's brutal...I don't care how small the passengers are.

It must have been horrific to be trapped upside down underwater with that many people in such a tiny confined space.

Our condolensces to those involved.

Chantal · Post by **Chantal** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:58 am

Shit! I will never fly in a 185 especially if there is six people which means you could never get out of the plane right, but I guess that's dumb because what's the difference in any plane

180 · Post by **180** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:01 pm

Chantal, the difference 'in any plane' is the number of exits available, and the ability to reach those exits in an emergency situation. (Upside down, under water).

The 185's baggage compartment doesn't have a handle on the inside.

This is obviously something to reconsider if flying with a passenger in the third row.

Again, condolensces to those involved...

medby · Post by **medby** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:40 pm

MKIII · Post by **MKIII** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:25 pm

You have to be damn small to be able to exit yourself through the rear cargo door of a C-185 period...even if there's a handle on the inside!

...I'm not surprise it happened in Quebec though, probably one of the very few places left where some cheap sightseeing operators still uses the third row seat in their Buck 85!

180 · Post by **180** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:11 pm

Medby, I didn't know they existed.

I've flown seven different 185's, never had an inside handle in the baggage compartment. That said, none of those had the third row of seats.

Is it possible for a float equipped 185 to have a sensible C of G with 2 people in that tiny rear compartment? (Maybe with children, but surely not with adults?)
How about gross weight with 6 on board and some gas? (Again, maybe with children, but with adults??? No way.)

Maybe the press released an incorrect number of people on board?

Brew · Post by **Brew** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:14 pm

Anyone know what company it was?

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:30 pm

And then there's the (probable) language barrier - how do you give a proper safety briefing to people whose english comprehension skills might not be up to the task required?

Ouch.

My condolences...

grouchy · Post by **grouchy** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:52 am

North Shore, you beat me to it. It's not speculation, but do your passengers actually have to understand your safety briefing or do you just have to do one? And this one,probably in French.

MCA · Post by **MCA** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:31 am

hmmm.... grouchy... french canadians can speak english properly. especially when carrying passengers from another country, when english will probably be the only common language.

180 · Post by **180** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:16 am

Most french Canadians can speak english...

How many french Canadians speak Japanese? How many Japanese tourists speak english?

We get tons of Germans coming through here, the vast majority don't speak english.

You have to go out of your way to find a translator for the safety briefing, period. It's gotta' be done.

This topic has taken a bit of a detour from the original thread. I'm not speculating on this specific accident....again, condolensces to those involved.

grouchy · Post by **grouchy** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:12 am

MCA, nothing was meant by the French comment. Rather that the Japanese tourists probably didn't have a proper understanding of English and probably the briefing would have been at least in English with a French accent. If you had a load of young kids would they understand the briefing and if not could you or SHOULD you do the flight if the safety briefing wasn't understood?
No speculation intended.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:32 pm

"You have to go out of your way to find a translator for the safety briefing, period. It's gotta' be done. "

So if three Zulus from Africa show up for a sightseeing flight with a Canadian charter operator and they don't speak English or French you must find a Zulu translator to do the briefing, or cancel the flight?

fredoqc · Post by **fredoqc** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:22 pm

fredoqc · Post by **fredoqc** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:29 pm

Brew wrote:Anyone know what company it was?

Centre d’aviation Wheelair de Mont-Tremblant, Qc.

http://www.hydravioncanada.com

Brew · Post by **Brew** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:48 pm

that link didn't work....anyone have any other details?

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:42 pm

So if three Zulus from Africa show up for a sightseeing flight with a Canadian charter operator and they don't speak English or French you must find a Zulu translator to do the briefing, or cancel the flight?

I think that you owe them a safe, professional flight - after all, that's what they are paying you for. Part of that is a safety briefing that they can understand. Some of the 185s that I've been in didn't even have one of those little cards in the seatback that explain in pictures what to do in case of an emergency. If you can't ascertain that they understand clearly, then cancellation would be a prudent option.

Put it another way Cat - if you showed up in Kreuger (sp?) National Park, you'd hope that your Zulu guide would make it quite clear that one of the hazards there is carnivorous lions; not just say (as you seem to be implying) "ahh, fu@k it, they've come to see the lions, they should be able to figure it out, and besides, I need the money that they are giving me."

180 · Post by **180** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:36 pm

Cat, I'm saying safety-wise, it's gotta' be done.

Transport-wise, I haven't a clue what their take is on it. You're tight with Transport though, you should ask one of your friends.

Sensibly speaking though, you have to go out of your way to get the important basics across to them, and if that means dragging their tour leader or concierge or whoever can translate down to the plane with them, then do it.

As for the three Zulus, I guess you do the best you can with what you have.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:05 pm

Hell I'm not suggesting that you do not make sure your passengers are aware of how the doors, seat belts life preservers etc. work and where to find same.

All I was doing was trying to point out that even with language differences there will be ways to ensure that safety is not compromized.

" Put it another way Cat - if you showed up in Kreuger (sp?) National Park, you'd hope that your Zulu guide would make it quite clear that one of the hazards there is carnivorous lions; not just say (as you seem to be implying) "ahh, fu@k it, they've come to see the lions, they should be able to figure it out, and besides, I need the money that they are giving me."

Its spelled Kruger, Norh Shore for what ever that is worth.

I have never actually been in Kruger National Park, but I did spend several days at Thornybush Game Preserve that is seperated from the park by a big wire fence and I had a piss through the fence so in a way I was there.

For your safety one of the guides rides in a seat mounted on the front of the Land Rover with a big f.ckin rifle in case some animal takes it into their head to attack the vehicle. Just prior to our arrival at Thornybush a woman was killed by a Lion while walking between the buildings at night without an armed guard

Anyhow, sometimes I just like to make comments to get everyone going...makes for some real entertainment sometimes. As far as safety briefings go , of course I am aware of their importance, and was just having some fun ...but maybe I should be more circumspect sometimes.

Cat