Is it really Prist

[pelmet]

I remember an F/O saving the day(and probably a lot more) once by sniffing what was in the water meth tank during the walkaround and discovering that it was jet fuel. Multiple aircraft had this done to them. Can you imagine an airline losing three aircraft in a day at various locations when they individually later on in the day needed to do a wet takeoff?

But I think it is reasonably safe to smell water methanol. As for Prist…..it is pretty nasty stuff. So how do you ensure that it really is Prist? Below is the reason I ask the question.....

"Situation:
There’s a worldwide fuel scare again - and we’re going to summarise this as simply as we can. Last week, a Falcon 900 departing an FBO in Florida requested Prist - which prevents fuel freezing at altitude - to be added. However, the Prist container on the fuel truck had been filled, in error, with a different fluid - Diesel Exhaust Fluid. The two fluids look the same - no coloring in either, clear liquid. DEF has catastrophic consequences for aircraft engines. In this case, 1 engine failed on departure, and the 2nd failed during the subsequent emergency landing. Similar events happened in Omaha in 2017, and we have more reports from OpsGroup members in Brazil. An FAA Special Airworthiness Bulletin is being worked on. There is no easy fix, but crews should be aware of the risk, and read more on this topic."

[digits_]

That's easy: don't design airplanes that need it. Nowadays there are multiple airplanes and engines that do not need it. I find it curious that a modernly designed airplane still needs it. In the long run it would probably be safer and cheaper to take a performance or weight penalty and design the planes just a wee bit differently.

[pelmet]

That's easy: don't design airplanes that need it. Nowadays there are multiple airplanes and engines that do not need it. I find it curious that a modernly designed airplane still needs it. In the long run it would probably be safer and cheaper to take a performance or weight penalty and design the planes just a wee bit differently.

Seems like a reasonable idea. But until then, unfortunately, we have to deal with what we've got.

Any suggestions?

[Taxivasion]

I don’t see this being an issue that should keep you awake at night.

Most turbine engines will burn almost anything that’s flammable including 100LL, heck even car gas if really in a pinch. I’m pretty sure DEF or something even remotely similar to Prist will be a non event.

How do you know DEF would be catastrophic?

Most modern airplanes don’t require Prist. I think it’s more of a habit with old dogs, at least in the corporate world.

[digits_]

How do you know DEF would be catastrophic

See initial post.
It caused a dual engine failure

[C-GGGQ]

Not sure about turbines but a trucks tank in bold print says "do not mix or blend DEF with fuel. Extreme engine damage" highly corrosive pig urine with mess everything up

[pelmet]

AOPA and other industry groups are stepping up efforts to prevent incidences of jet fuel being contaminated with diesel exhaust fluid (DEF)—likely mistaken for fuel-system ice inhibitor—following an August event in which clogged fuel filters led to the failure of two of a business jet’s three engines, and several occurrences last year.
The bizjet, a charter operator’s Dassault Falcon 900EX, made a forced return to Florida’s Miami-Opa Locka Executive Airport after the crew received multiple clogged fuel filter warnings on departure, followed by failure of the trijet's No. 2 engine, according to a letter from the air charter company, alerting AOPA and others. A second engine failed during the return to the airport and the crew successfully completed an emergency landing with the remaining, No. 1 engine. The event’s duration from initial alert to landing was about 10 minutes, it said.

The Aug. 14 incident raised new concerns following occurrences in November 2017 in which several airplanes received jet fuel to which DEF had inadvertently been added instead of fuel system icing inhibitor, often referred to by the brand name Prist, at Eppley Air Field Airport in Omaha, Nebraska. The addition of contaminated fuel, and the servicing of other aircraft with refueling equipment that had been exposed to the substance, prompted the FAA to issue a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin on Dec. 26, 2017, urging operators of certain aircraft to familiarize themselves with maintenance and inspection methods; report related service difficulties; and avoid using fuel suspected of being contaminated. In response to the Omaha incidents, the National Air Transportation Association (NATA) released a DEF Contamination Prevention training course through its Safety 1st Supplemental Safety Training program—available free of charge to anyone in the industry.

According to the SAIB, “DEF is a urea-based chemical that is not approved for use in jet fuel. When mixed with jet fuel, DEF will react with certain jet fuel chemical components to form crystalline deposits in the fuel system. These deposits will flow through the aircraft fuel system and may accumulate on filters, fuel metering components, other fuel system components, or engine fuel nozzles. The deposits may also settle in the fuel tanks or other areas of the aircraft fuel system where they may potentially become dislodged over time and accumulate downstream in the fuel system as described above.” The SAIB identified aircraft that “have experienced clogged fuel filters and fuel nozzle deposits that led to service difficulties and unplanned diversions.”

“After this new incident, we feel a broader, collaborative approach is needed to help ensure another event doesn’t occur,” said David Oord, AOPA senior director of regulatory affairs. “Additionally, it is important for operators to be aware of the issue, and if a fuel filter light comes on, land as soon as practical and look for the possibility of DEF contamination. We are working with the FAA, NATA, National Business Aviation Association, and other stakeholders to provide additional education, awareness, and other measures to help prevent another DEF-contamination occurrence.”

[pelmet]

FAA SAIB...

https://www.nbaa.org/ops/safety/HQ-18-08R1.pdf

[Stallspin]

I would hazard a guess that .125% water/urea mix will not cause a flameout unless you fuel the night before and the DEF settles to the bottom of your tank where the pickup is.

I would bet that other aircraft have been fuelled with DEF instead of FSII but they departed quickly enough that the DEF didn't settle. If you took off right away you probably wouldn't have any idea.

[pelmet]

What pilots can do about this situation....

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... dium=email


"The ASI Safety Notice urges pilots to inquire if fuel providers use DEF in ground equipment and about procedures to confirm that only the correct additives are used for jet fuel. Procedures should include separate storage, clear labeling, confirmation of correct additives at the time of insertion, and personnel training."



http://download.aopa.org/advocacy/2019/ ... 1557722522

[North Shore]

I’m struggling to comprehend how DEF got anywhere near an aircraft fuel source? Some major league fackery going on to get a vehicle exhaust additive confused with an aeroplane fuel additive, no?

[photofly]

It can't be beyond the wisdom of someone to create a simple to use test kit, like the ones they use for first line narcotics testing.
Here's a test for urea in milk; it should be straightforward to adapt for fuel.

Similarly, a test for prist could be developed...?

[oldtimer]

I have zero aquantenance with DEF except truckers say the DEF pumps will freeze in cold weather. But to answer why pilots will use Prist when aircraft usually do not require it is like a belt and suspenders thing. The manufacturer of Prist had to guarantee it would preform as advertised as an anti-ice additive but what I read was they also wanted to advertise/certify it would help clean jet fuel and the aircraft fuel systems by destroying Humbugs. (Hydrocarbon Utilizing Microbes, read the SA226 Merlin/Metro maintenance manual). In order to do that, the Prist manufacturer had to obtain certification from the USA Dept. of Agriculture. The cost was too much so they just said it should help "clean the fuel system", but with no guarantee. Careful and conscientious mechanics/pilots say the cost of adding Prist to the fuel is worth the small cost. What is certified is the use of Prist in the aircraft fuel systems because the components should be protected from the corrosive effects of Prist. At least that is what I have read.

[GoinVertical]

I've heard the same as above... that it's wise in aircraft that are sitting more than they are flying, as it stops gunk from growing in the fuel tanks, which is a very expensive problem to have.

Do any tri-hole Falcons require Prist?

[Heliian]

The use of FSii is still recommended in some aircraft for cold weather.

At some point you have to hold the fuelers accountable for the product they deliver. I wouldn't even bother to worry about if they put the correct stuff in the tank, the quantity is the most important.

[valleyboy]

a Falcon 900 departing an FBO in Florida requested Prist

Likely a pilot watabe driving the tanker

Let's face it most people today have no mechanical knowledge they have no clue the difference between adding DEF fluid or Prist to the truck all they know is that there is a jug and you poor it in -- Like most things in aviation, from refueling to driving a MAX training and the lack there of always rears it's ugly head.

[Cessna driver]

I hate when people call it prist…

[linecrew]

I hate when people call it prist…

Agreed. Prist is just one company that makes fsii, among other products as well.

Where I worked, the stuff came in clearly marked barrels and you filled the small additive tank on the truck with it. Then it was automatically blended into the fuel if the aircraft if the pilot requested it.

[Brantford Beech Boy]

Do any tri-hole Falcons require Prist?

The Dassault AFM for the 50 & 900 list approved anti-icing additives and their maximum concentrations ....otherwise provides no guidance for its use.

But I was told in groundschool that fuel anti-icing is not necessary due to design of the fuel delivery system.
Have never considered anti-icing “Prist” as a biocide... purpose designed biocides are better if the plane will sit for long periods, but bio material is best kept out by leaving the tanks pressurized.

We never request “Prist” and haven’t had any issues..

This was a discussion topic in recurrent this year.

BBB

[Heliian]

Pryst couldn't substantiate the claims of anti microbial or anti fungal use.

Biobor is really the only one that does antimicrobial.

[Fueller]

1. As stated Prist is a brand name and that is part of the problem. Same as Jet A1 and Jet A1 w/FSII are 2 different types of fuel.
2. DEF is a new reality and won't be going away.
3. A good operator has procedures and training in place to prevent such occurrences.
4. In aviation fuel when a product is moved either fuel or FSII, a log is generated and product grade is confirmed before transfer. Again a good operator.
5. Diethylene glycol monomethyl ether does assist as an antimicrobial agent by way of bonding with water and altering it's chemical makeup although it's no substitute for airframe manufacturer's recommendations.

[pelmet]

Thanks for the replies.

I understand how this all works a bit better now. This diesel exhaust fluid thing started a few years ago when the American Environmental Protection Agency passed rules to reduce Diesel exhaust emissions.

I believe newer Diesel vehicles are built with an additional system that inject the DEF into the exhaust. This fluid(mostly water with a bit of urea) chemically converts the hazardous exhaust into nitrogen and water. The vehicle operator has to purchase the DEF fluid and pour it into the vehicle's system(the DEF cap could be near fuel cap or under the hood depending on vehicle model).

Airport vehicles are subject to these regulations. It is not uncommon for the operators of the airport vehicles to have containers of this fluid purchased in advance and stored for future use. Somehow, this fluid can be mixed up with fuel system icing inhibitor which is the issue. See the link below on how DEF works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDI54G34Ooo

AOPA is now petitioning for an exemption for airport operators of Diesel vehicles so that it would be less likely that they would have this fluid stored on-site and therefore less likely to be accidentally mixed with FSII.

[pelmet]

"DEF a bad fit for airports

The risk of jet fuel being contaminated by diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) is “unacceptably high,” and the Environmental Protection Agency should exempt airport vehicles from emissions requirements mandating the use of DEF “in non-road, on-airport ground support equipment and vehicles,” said AOPA and 17 other aviation organizations in an Aug. 7 letter to the administrators of the EPA and the FAA. Such an exemption was recommended in an industry-led working group’s report that addressed immediate actions that could be taken to reduce the DEF risk. While more permanent solutions, such as the complete removal of DEF from airports, are under study, the industry is voluntarily implementing the report’s other recommendations, including “education, storage, labeling, handling procedures, and limiting DEF inventory,” the letter said.

In addition to the aviation groups signing the letter to the FAA and EPA, the National Transportation Safety Board has also expressed concern about the issue, sending a safety alert in July that includes suggestions to help prevent future incidents. And in August , the Diesel Technology Forum, a non-profit group that aims to raise awareness about the importance of diesel engines, fuel and technology, is backing the aviation industry’s stance on DEF contamination.

In an Aug. 6 press release, the Diesel Technology Forum wrote, “We recommend that FBO’s follow the NTSB safety bulletin, and work with diesel engine and equipment dealers and their fuel suppliers to understand the proper use and storage of DEF. FBOs should also institute ongoing training, labeling and storage practices to help ensure aviation safety. The work done by the Aircraft Diesel Exhaust Fluid Working Group and their report in June 2019 has contributed a substantial understanding to the issue, and offers strong short- and long-term recommendations.”"

Link in next post.

[pelmet]

It appears that a Citation had to glide in for landing a few months ago.

"Fuel contaminated with diesel exhaust fluid forced two air ambulances to make emergency landings in May. Both aircraft have been declared total losses, and the operator is lining up legal action.

Attorneys for Air Ambulance By Air Trek Inc., and Air Trek Inc., informed the Charlotte County (Florida) Airport Authority, operator of the Punta Gorda Airport, that they would seek damages, expenses, and lost revenue resulting from contaminated fuel being “interjected” in two Cessna Citation 550 jets by airport employees.


On May 9, both twinjets departed Air Trek’s Punta Gorda base and flew to Naples, Florida, where medical technicians, patients, and patients’ family members boarded. AOPA reported that one Citation was headed to Niagara Falls, New York, but experienced an engine flameout north of Savannah, Georgia. It then lost its second engine but landed safely in Savannah. The other Citation was bound for Chicago when it experienced an engine failure, and landed safely in Louisville, Kentucky. In all, 13 occupants escaped without injury, said Dana Carr, Air Trek’s director of operations.

The FAA determined that the two aircraft received fuel that had been contaminated with diesel exhaust fluid, or DEF, which had been added erroneously to the fuel supply in a fuel truck in Punta Gorda. DEF is a urea-based chemical that reduces diesel-engine emissions. It is not intended for use in aircraft, and when added to jet fuel, can trigger chemical reactions leading to the formation of crystals that can plug fuel filters and damage other engine components.
The incidents followed occurrences at other airports in 2018 and 2017 that had triggered FAA warnings and prompted intensive industry review of aircraft-fueling practices and personnel training.
In an Aug. 7 phone interview, Carr expressed Air Trek’s pride in the performance of the two fight crews. “They did an admirable job,” he said, noting that one of the pilots was, fortuitously, also rated in gliders.

The National Transportation Safety Board’s preliminary report on the double engine failure experienced by the aircraft that diverted to Savannah gives an account of a crisis aloft that unfolded in stages as the jet gradually lost power:
“According to the pilots, about 1 hour and 20 minutes into the flight from APF to IAG, while cruising at 35,000 ft mean sea level (msl), the pilot-in-command was trying to set the N1 speed around 103 [percent], but moments after adjusting power, the N1 speed would decrease. Following a few repeated occurrences of the N1 speed decreasing in this manner, all the engine gauges ‘read regular,’ then the left engine began to 'spool down very slowly.' After unsuccessfully attempting to recover engine power, the crew requested a lower altitude from air traffic control and began a descent with the left engine at idle power. The pilot-in-command then noticed that the left engine displayed no oil pressure and subsequently shut it down.
"Several minutes passed as the airplane descended with the right engine at 65 [percent] fan speed, and while preparing to perform a single-engine approach into SAV, about 8,000 ft msl, the right engine became unresponsive and then began 'spooling down.’ The pilot-in-command declared an emergency and the flight crew performed a straight-in approach to runway 19. The airplane landed without incident and was towed to the ramp,” the report states.
Since then, Carr said, he has had to juggle the flight schedules of other company aircraft, pressuring both the charter and medical-transport areas of the company‘s flight operations. Meanwhile, the two grounded jets are running up thousands of dollars in combined storage costs at the airports where they landed on May 9, he added.
Carr noted that although the airport’s insurance company, Starr Adjustment Services, acknowledged in meetings that the two aircraft won’t fly again—once DEF enters an aircraft’s fuel system “there’s no telling when it might come loose down the road”—he was disappointed with settlement offers that he believed were based on inadequate appraisals. The proposed settlements did not fully consider the special configurations of air-ambulance aircraft, nor did they take into account an air ambulance’s large access door modification that he estimated affects an aircraft’s value by 30 or 40 percent.
As a long-term airport business tenant in Punta Gorda, Air Trek is “looking for some type of amicable settlement, to get new aircraft, and get back in the air,” he said.
AOPA reached out to Punta Gorda Airport for a response to the letter from Air Trek’s law firm and received an emailed statement from Marketing and Communications Manager Kaley Miller: “Punta Gorda Airport’s management values Air Trek as a longstanding tenant and understands this is a difficult situation for all involved. We have retained an experienced aviation attorney from Kaplan, Kirsch & Rockwell to work with our insurance company and keep this pending insurance claim moving forward. We are hopeful that our insurance company and Air Trek will be able to amicably resolve this matter.”
According to a news report, an airport employee who was dismissed following the incident had neglected to follow the airport’s safety policies.
The preliminary NTSB report revealed that “several days after the incident, the lineman realized that he had inadvertently combined a 5-gallon (fuel system icing inhibitor) bucket and a 2.5-gallon diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) container instead of two partially-empty containers of FSII.”

[Capt. Underpants]

I have zero aquantenance with DEF except truckers say the DEF pumps will freeze in cold weather. But to answer why pilots will use Prist when aircraft usually do not require it is like a belt and suspenders thing. The manufacturer of Prist had to guarantee it would preform as advertised as an anti-ice additive but what I read was they also wanted to advertise/certify it would help clean jet fuel and the aircraft fuel systems by destroying Humbugs. (Hydrocarbon Utilizing Microbes, read the SA226 Merlin/Metro maintenance manual). In order to do that, the Prist manufacturer had to obtain certification from the USA Dept. of Agriculture. The cost was too much so they just said it should help "clean the fuel system", but with no guarantee. Careful and conscientious mechanics/pilots say the cost of adding Prist to the fuel is worth the small cost. What is certified is the use of Prist in the aircraft fuel systems because the components should be protected from the corrosive effects of Prist. At least that is what I have read.

I was told by the owner of a refueling service that the chemical formulation of Prist anti-icing additive was changed several years ago. This was because the original formulation was highly toxic and could cause serious organ damage. The original formulation was a much more effective anti-microbial than the current one.