Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

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C.W.E.
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by C.W.E. »

... anyway.. rant over... Seems like the industry is breeding more Air France Bonins day by day.... sighhh.
What is a "" Air France Bonin "" ?
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Hilroy
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by Hilroy »

C.W.E. wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:38 pm
... anyway.. rant over... Seems like the industry is breeding more Air France Bonins day by day.... sighhh.
What is a "" Air France Bonin "" ?
Bonin is the pilot that got blamed for the crash of AF447, unable to recover from a stall at cruising altitude. He still had 3000 hours under his belt...
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smooth
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by smooth »

I applied Porter and Encore and Jazz right at 1000 hours, i got offer for Encore and Porter. Never got a answer from Jazz, i've heard Jazz is looking for more multi engine which i didn't have.
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jwaran90
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by jwaran90 »

smooth wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:14 pm I applied Porter and Encore and Jazz right at 1000 hours, i got offer for Encore and Porter. Never got a answer from Jazz, i've heard Jazz is looking for more multi engine which i didn't have.
Hi Smooth,

Thanks for the information. Can you give a bit of colour regarding how you built those hours and your background (aviation college/university)? Also did you have any internal recommendations or was it a full OTS/blind application to the HR Team.

Cheers
JW
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trey kule
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by trey kule »

maybe i'm just old fashioned and believe in a solid reference.
The majors dont give a rat’s patutti about bond jumping, or screwing your previous employer.
They need a pilot. You fit the profile. You’re hired.

Priority one is a family member working for the company already. Hours in the log book place a very distant second...or third , or fourth. Pilots often forget this and think log book time is the key. It isn’t.

Hours, for the most part are a check the box item, although they have some problems lately with pilots not qualifying for upgrade. Something the pilots knew going in. So the 1000 hours makes sense as a new hire can get their ATPL and be upgradeable without having to resort to one of the many “ get to 250PIC” options.
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smooth
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by smooth »

Went to a private flight training school and got my instructor rating. Did it for couple month and went up north in Ontario for a PC12 job. And applied for regional after, i did have someone i know in both companies encore and porter.
jwaran90 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:35 am
smooth wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:14 pm I applied Porter and Encore and Jazz right at 1000 hours, i got offer for Encore and Porter. Never got a answer from Jazz, i've heard Jazz is looking for more multi engine which i didn't have.
Hi Smooth,

Thanks for the information. Can you give a bit of colour regarding how you built those hours and your background (aviation college/university)? Also did you have any internal recommendations or was it a full OTS/blind application to the HR Team.

Cheers
JW
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C-GGGQ
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by C-GGGQ »

The real problem is, as so many have stated before, that at the 705 level seniority is life. Low timers would be dumb not to jump ship (especially if at one of the many dead end 703 jobs) to get that seniority number as early as possible.
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Outlaw58
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by Outlaw58 »

C-GGGQ wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:00 am The real problem is, as so many have stated before, that at the 705 level seniority is life. Low timers would be dumb not to jump ship (especially if at one of the many dead end 703 jobs) to get that seniority number as early as possible.
And THAT is the #1 problem with aviation today.

That seniority system made a lot of sense when no one could dream of a seat in a 705 operation before they logged multiple thousands of hours in varied type of operations.

Non-705 operations NEED pilots, pilots NEED pre-705 experience and 705 operations NEED pilots with pre-705 experience. Until something is done about the current seniority system that problem won't go away, that is unless legislators force the issue which in turn probably won't happen until the next major air disaster.

58
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igorcanuck
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by igorcanuck »

It's not just hours. I have +5000TT, ATPL, 3700 ATR, 2000 PIC, aviation university BUT last flight in 2016. No referral as well. Applied for both Jazz and Encore and haven't received a call. Looking for 703 jobs now to be current again and apply after 1 year.
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mixturerich
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by mixturerich »

igorcanuck wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:50 pm It's not just hours. I have +5000TT, ATPL, 3700 ATR, 2000 PIC, aviation university BUT last flight in 2016. No referral as well. Applied for both Jazz and Encore and haven't received a call. Looking for 703 jobs now to be current again and apply after 1 year.
Way over qualified.





I’m being sarcastic.
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digits_
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by digits_ »

jt8d wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:33 pm Ok Vermont... you are so out to lunch it's not even funny... I'm calling out low time pilots who can't honour a measly 1 or 2 year bond... but they sure were pumped to get in that plane and start logging hours they don't have to pay for anymore a few months earlier weren't they?Just a tip... finish your PPL before you start blabbering on here... you don't know sh!t mate... a PPL calling out commercial aviation in Canada? 😂😂 I am in full agreeance that Poop's 737 captain wage is garbage. But that had nothing to do with my statement you quoted. Piss off with YOUR know nothing attitude
What do you mean, they don't honour the bond? Do they not pay the agreed upon amount? If they sign a 2 year bond, leave after 6 month and pay out the agreed upon amount, they are honouring the bond. The advantage of a bond, from a pilot's perspective, is that you can leave without any guilt and your employer shouldn't be pissed off about it.

Outlaw58 wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:12 am
Non-705 operations NEED pilots, pilots NEED pre-705 experience and 705 operations NEED pilots with pre-705 experience. Until something is done about the current seniority system that problem won't go away, that is unless legislators force the issue which in turn probably won't happen until the next major air disaster.

58
That's where you are wrong. Europe, with a variety of airlines and a good safety record, proves that this is not a requirement. Well selected 250 hour pilots are perfectly capable of learning how to safely fly a B737 or A320.
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by ehv8oar »

That's where you are wrong. Europe, with a variety of airlines and a good safety record, proves that this is not a requirement. Well selected 250 hour pilots are perfectly capable of learning how to safely fly a B737 or A320.
This is true, I've got a friend training for an airline in Germany right now, his time is about 300. He's an intelligent, capable guy and I'm sure will have no problem in the aircraft.

The big argument for me is could such a relatively inexperienced guy take over if the Captain bit the dust after takeoff. To be honest though what's harder, landing a highly automated, well maintained, A320 or a metroliner with no autopilot.
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by digits_ »

ehv8oar wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:31 am The big argument for me is could such a relatively inexperienced guy take over if the Captain bit the dust after takeoff. To be honest though what's harder, landing a highly automated, well maintained, A320 or a metroliner with no autopilot.
Of course he could.

EASA is, as far as I know, the only licensing authority that makes 3 (5?) landings in the actual airplane a requirement for a typerating. So yes, I have no doubt that a 300 hour pilot on his first non-training day could land the plane by himself if the captain died. It's not that hard. They've been trained thoroughly.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
digits_
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by digits_ »

jt8d wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:48 pm I'm more referring to the 1 year bonds... pilots jumping ship at 6-9 months and bailing on the bond cuz they know company won'tgo after them for a few thousand in court. Seen it happen many times over... Even if you leave after 3 months and pay the remaining 9 months, it's still a big wtf to the employer... 704/705 operators aren't FTUs... put in that year on the line and get a solid reference for crying out loud... what's a year?
Depends on how the job was advertised as well. If the operator misrepresents the job, which used to be fairly common in certain medevac ops, I don't blame people for leaving.

A bond usually has a reason. That reason is seldom advertised. Great companies don't need bonds.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by Outlaw58 »

digits_ wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:27 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:12 am
Non-705 operations NEED pilots, pilots NEED pre-705 experience and 705 operations NEED pilots with pre-705 experience. Until something is done about the current seniority system that problem won't go away, that is unless legislators force the issue which in turn probably won't happen until the next major air disaster.

58
That's where you are wrong. Europe, with a variety of airlines and a good safety record, proves that this is not a requirement. Well selected 250 hour pilots are perfectly capable of learning how to safely fly a B737 or A320.
To me, it's like playing Jenga.

"Look!! I keep removing blocks and the tower is not falling". That's what I'm hearing you say.

58
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by digits_ »

Outlaw58 wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:33 pm
digits_ wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:27 am
Outlaw58 wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:12 am
Non-705 operations NEED pilots, pilots NEED pre-705 experience and 705 operations NEED pilots with pre-705 experience. Until something is done about the current seniority system that problem won't go away, that is unless legislators force the issue which in turn probably won't happen until the next major air disaster.

58
That's where you are wrong. Europe, with a variety of airlines and a good safety record, proves that this is not a requirement. Well selected 250 hour pilots are perfectly capable of learning how to safely fly a B737 or A320.
To me, it's like playing Jenga.

"Look!! I keep removing blocks and the tower is not falling". That's what I'm hearing you say.

58
Except you have been playing jenga for 35 years and the tower is still standing.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
mixturerich
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by mixturerich »

Those having trouble getting a job in the industry right now should probably try getting a personality first. Pairs well with an attitude adjustment, too.
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by shawnthesheep »

igorcanuck wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:50 pm It's not just hours. I have +5000TT, ATPL, 3700 ATR, 2000 PIC, aviation university BUT last flight in 2016. No referral as well. Applied for both Jazz and Encore and haven't received a call. Looking for 703 jobs now to be current again and apply after 1 year.
OOF, That much time and no call?
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by igorcanuck »

shawnthesheep wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:16 pm
igorcanuck wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:50 pm It's not just hours. I have +5000TT, ATPL, 3700 ATR, 2000 PIC, aviation university BUT last flight in 2016. No referral as well. Applied for both Jazz and Encore and haven't received a call. Looking for 703 jobs now to be current again and apply after 1 year.
OOF, That much time and no call?
Yep. I always hear they don't have FO's with enough experience to be promoted so I think it would be worth a try, just give me a SIM eval to see how it goes. But anyway, it is what it is. I can't sit and cry. Going for 703 and will try again in 1 year.
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Re: Realistic TT for Jazz or Encore?

Post by Outlaw58 »

digits_ wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:55 pm
Outlaw58 wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:33 pm
digits_ wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:27 am

That's where you are wrong. Europe, with a variety of airlines and a good safety record, proves that this is not a requirement. Well selected 250 hour pilots are perfectly capable of learning how to safely fly a B737 or A320.
To me, it's like playing Jenga.

"Look!! I keep removing blocks and the tower is not falling". That's what I'm hearing you say.

58
Except you have been playing jenga for 35 years and the tower is still standing.
How long you play is irrelevant, all Jenga games end the same way.

58
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