L39Guy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:09 amThe history of this whole mess is that during the early 1990's the regionals (Air Nova, Air Ontario, Air BC) were growing, including ABE-146 jets, F28's, etc and taking over traditional Air Canada DC 9 flying. That combined with the 3 seater B727 being replaced by the 2 seater A320 resulted in not only stagnation but even worse, layoffs at the former Crown Corporation - the infamous 243!Fanblade wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:07 am
Nothing to do with the voting structure at CALPA that caused its downfall? I find that a very disappointing statement and I am one of ALPA’s strongest supporters. I don’t want to rehash history with you. My memory, as an AC pilot, is the whole mess started with the CALPA BOD voting for a seniority arbitration, between AC and its feeders, against the wishes of the AC MEC. Hence the 1/4 century issue over a possible reoccurrence. It’s a non starter if not addressed.
It was the Air Canada pilot group and MEC that demanded a merger between AC and its regionals. Using the CALPA constitution, a negotiation was the first step (unsuccessful, surprise, surprise) followed by a mediation process (unsuccessful). It was the Air Canada MEC that invoked binding arbitration, per the CALPA constitution, that resulted in Picher Arbitration and award. Note: it was at the insistence of the Air Canada pilots, not the regionals, that a seniority arbitration was initiated.
The Picher Award was not to the satisfaction of the Air Canada pilots; it was basically DOH to the last 243 then a ratio of those 243 with the regionals. As it was not to the liking of the AC pilots, the AC pilots walked away from the arbitration award (which they insisted upon) and CALPA as well.
Various other "excuses" have been rendered as an attempt to rewrite history - lack of voting representation, paying the majority of CALPA dues, etc. AC pilots were not unhappy with these issues for decades until they were handed a seniority arbitration award they did not like and chose to take their marbles and go home.
It is interesting to note that on a micro scale the issues of role call voting and he (or she) pays the most gets the same say in the affairs of ACPA. Roll call voting is not the norm at the MEC level, higher paid pilots (paying more union dues) have no more say than those that pay fewer dues.
With AC pilots leaving CALPA and CALPA ultimately collapsing, the pilot profession in this country has paid a terrible price, including AC pilots. Without a single voice and a single "industry standard" wages and working conditions that CALPA advocated, lesser WAWCON have evolved and, ironies of ironies, Air Canada pilots have had to bring their WAWCON down instead of raising the others up. Truly sad and ultimately short sighted.
Fanblade wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:07 am I get your issues with representation with the proposed voting system however. A veto might create comfort. What I’m really hoping is that ALPA sees that Canada is too small to structure itself in a democratic fashion. Too much acrimonious history as well. That it offers AC pilots a place within ALPA and dissolves ALPAc altogether. This whole joining ALPAc has always been a Canadian autonomy thing rather that forgetting our nationality and focusing on pilots.This is not about money for a union; this is about fair representation for all carriers and their pilots in a combined pilot association. Every non-Air Canada MEC need not bother to attend any ALPA-C meetings as Air Canada's MEC would simply steamroll over everyone else. That is no way to run a union, a government or any democracy. And, as I pointed out early, on a micro scale that is not have AC's own MEC works either.Fanblade wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:07 am We can always keep a Canadian lobby.
Your current stance, if supported by ALPAc/ALPA will all but guarantee ALPAc has 600 less members in a year out. Is that a prudent course of action? Having 5000 Canadian pilots outside the fold? Turn down 5000 pilots worth of revenue and support for peers?
I was trying to stay away from rehashing history. Your version of history maybe one sided or completely factual, it really doesn’t matter. It is all rear view mirror stuff. The Picher award demographic is almost all retired now. Yet the concern over that time period is still prevalent within the AC group. It doesn’t matter if that concern is real or perceived based on history. It’s a concern. The ensuing lawsuits from the Air Ontario pilots went on far too long and are actually the centre of how pilots hired after Picher view that whole time period.
But none of that matters.
What matters is moving forward together. That will only happen in an environment where everyone is comfortable.
For AC pilots it means an environment where they can’t be forced into something against their will. If that is not addressed unity will never happen, which is very unfortunate for the entire Canadian pilot profession.
With that said, I agree with your assessment of roll call voting. I will even take it a step further than democracy. The largest issue we have as a profession in Canada is that ACPA doesn’t act for the common good. That isn’t their mandate. It’s responsibly is to its members, and its members only. AC pilots within ALPAc, if given total control, will operate exactly the same way. ALPAc will become all about what AC pilots want to the possible detriment of others. That won’t work. Nor will it improve the profession.
What we need in my opinion is the dissolution of ALPAc. We all just join ALPA. No special rules or status for anyone. Replace ALPAc with a Canadian lobby group. No more big fish in a tiny puddle mentality.
This will require everyone, the pilots at AC, Jazz, WJ, TZ, to relinquish control. You see I realize the control issue isn’t just from the AC side.
I am aware this was one of the options, but control issues from multiple sources nixed it.
Unfortunately it was probably the only viable solution. It needs to be resurrected.
